Permanent chastity? Indefinite? Lifestyle? Sealed? Got any other terms you like or hate?

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Tom Allen, Jan 19, 2021.

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  1. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    This is a thread to discuss the terms and usages of a concept that none of us even agree on: "permanent" chastity.

    I'm in permanent chastity. Except when I'm not.

    In my situation, I'm locked all the time. Except for medical visits, travel where I'm likely to pass through metal detectors, cleaning/hygiene, and longish road cycling jaunts.

    I'm also denied orgasm. Except for an occasional involuntary ruined one in my cage, or when Mrs Edge decides it would be fun to make me come in the cage.

    So... is this permanent?

    We have members here who declare that they are in permanent chastity, but they have various times that they are actually locked into a device. We have members who have various degrees of orgasm denial. We have members who are essentially sealed into a device which can only be opened with tools. We also have members who are released fairly often (fsv of often) for teasing, or even orgasms.

    Can all of these members be in permanent chastity?

    I think that I can answer this:

    Yes.

    But here's the caveat: The conception of permanent, that is, the common understanding or connotation that comes to mind when we use the term, refers to a length of time. Permanent is forever, or at the least, an indefinite period of time. That is, when some says "I'm in permanent chastity," what they essentially mean is that they are in a condition (a condition that is not yet described in terms of being locked or denied) for a period of time that they expect to stretch out indefinitely.

    "Indefinitely" is a word used here to mean "not defined by a length of time." This is why expressions such as "I'm in permanent chastity until the end of the month" sound so ridiculous: the concept is oxymoronic. It is my contention that when we use the word "permanent" to describe anything other than an indefinite length of time involved, it's confusing for some of the readers (and as you can see, annoying to others).

    While it's tempting to try to avoid using the word, the problem is that the idea of "permanent chastity" is kind of hot. We don't want to stop using it because there really is not another expression that conveys the weight or immensity of doing something for really, really long periods of time. This is why our attempts at using words like "sealed" (a favorite of @Giles_English ), "lifestyle," "persistent," "serious," etc., never really catch on: they do not convey the gut-wrenching, heart-stopping, cold sweat of facing down something like this for years, or possibly even until you're dead.

    Anyway, I'm not going to suggest that we stop using it. But maybe it would be nice if we could stop using it in an oxymoronic way.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Darlydixon
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    Darlydixon I love to be limpy

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    I agree on the idea of not using permanent on the definition of chastity. I think a lot of members feel the lifestyle is permanent.
    For me I am caged more than I am not. I could remove it at any time my KEYHOLDER does not hide the keys.
    I am one of those that believe the lifestyle is what is permanent.
     
  3. Darlydixon
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    Darlydixon I love to be limpy

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    I think this will be very interesting read
     
  4. LesterBallard
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    LesterBallard Active member

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    guided chastity
     
  5. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    Thanks for starting this thread! In my case:
    • I can't remove this device without using a rotary tool and a steady hand, and depleting my limited supply of expensive replacement seals.
    • My wife prefers me this way and is quite capable of keeping me locked.
    • There's no practical reason for removal any time soon, barring medical emergencies etc.
    So what do I call this style of chastity?

    What I think we're talking about is a style of chastity analogous to:
    • A woman having the contraceptive coil fitted.
    • Permanent employment
    • Permanent residence.
    • A piercing.
    Its features are
    1. Mechanically sealed requiring a positive sober decision and some cost or effort to remove.
    2. Necessary removals are brief and infrequent and not caused by the device.
    3. The expectation of removal does not significantly increase over time.
    4. Feels like a significant phase of the wearer's sex life.
    Another way of describing this is:
    • "Theoretically potentially permanent barring:
      • change in circumstances
      • outside forces."
    This style is very different from similar styles with similar arrangements:
    • Long-term chastity with a set sentence (violates #3)
    • Chastity as the default, but with regular unlocking for erotic activity (violates #2)
    • Open-ended keyed chastity (violates #1)
    • Chastity as a permanent lifestyle feature, but with unlocking for whatever reasons.
    • Being sealed in a cheap device for a weekend's adventure (violates #4)
    Logically, it isn't "permanent", which makes for some contradictory sentences that get @Tom Allen's goat. For example, I have a sense that Xena will let me out after a year, but I don't know she will, and there are unlikely to be any practical reasons forcing her hand.

    However, it's not just being sealed in, either.

    Can we agree what to call it?
     
  6. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    No, but we're getting there.

    Nicely framed discussion, @Giles_English . On mobile now, but will give this more thought. I like your listing of the features. It gives some landmarks, in the sense of general points that can be agreed upon.
     
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  7. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    On reflection, the key feature is: The expectation of removal does not significantly increase over time.
     
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  8. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    I really like this one. I think it's an excellent insight.
     
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  9. dre8car
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    dre8car Always Locked and Rarely Cum - Lori 8b

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    I just know that the wife has both keys and haven't been able to locate one of them nor has she left a key out for me.
     
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  10. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    #10 Giles_English, Jan 19, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
    Interesting one...

    Analysing according to my model (and not with any one-upmanship):

    1. Mechanically sealed requiring a positive sober decision and some cost or effort to remove.
    2. Necessary removals are brief and infrequent and not caused by the device.
    3. The expectation of removal does not significantly increase over time.
    4. Feels like a significant phase of the wearer's sex life.
    That violates #1 and #3. Basically, she can produce the key and unlock you entirely on whim, and also on any given evening, you may get a sudden increasing expectation of removal: she may seem to be building up to producing the key.

    On the other hand, it's kind of in the same spirit.
     
  11. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    I agree that this is an alternate use of the term. There are a lot of couples that play very seriously in the sense that a partner is always locked except for play periods, and that they expect this kind of play will continue for the foreseeable future. But again, the essential point is the same: there is no defined time limit.
     
  12. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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    Definitions and getting the dictionary version isn’t always what is meant or implied. Time is relative and so is chastity, time being part and parcel to chastity.

    We have a permanent chastity lifestyle, it will always be apart of our lives. There is an expectation on both sides. I remain locked until she unlocks me. She may unlock me many times, she may take months before she wants to unlock me.

    The lifestyle is permanent, the cage is a tool.
     
  13. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    @Darlydixon brings up a good point about "permanent lifestyle" chastity. A lot of people who self identify as lifestylers probably meet some of the above criteria, notably 2 (locked as the default with regular unlockings for play). But again, the essential point here does involve the element of indefinite periods of time; that is, the partners expect to be playing this way for the foreseeable future.

    But here you outline what are probably the most salient points or landmarks of what we think of as "permanent chastity"

    Some comments:
    Note 1: "cost or effort to remove." Mrs Edge could easily produce a key, but I don't think that's what you mean. I think you're implying that there is an agreed upon installing and removal of some device. However, where does this leave those who play without devices?

    Note 2: This almost implies orgasm denial/control, in addition to being locked. So, are we mixing denial with being caged? This is where that matrix tries to make a distinction (and why isn't it a sticky post yet? :)), but it also raises the question: do regular orgasms make for being a part of permanent chastity?

    Note 2a: Not caused by the device? Not sure I get this.

    Note 3: "Expectation of removal does not significantly increase over time." I really life this one, because it makes the point that "permanent" is more about an indefinite period of time.

    Note 3a: I wondered if adding something like "... or the performance of tasks, merits, or good behavior." That is, can we add to this. But again, are we also makign "orgasm denial" an essential part of "permanent chastity"?

    Note 4: This is also good. Anybody can slap on a cage for a weekend. But a week? 2 weeks? A month? Six months? At some point one becomes aware of the intention and effort into this.
     
  14. Sipriotes
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    Sipriotes Slave to Artemistress

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    I love debating the precision of language as much as the next guy, but at some point it passes the point of usefulness.

    Let's start with the dictionary definitions of "permanent":

    1. existing perpetually; everlasting, especially without significant change.
    2. intended to exist or function for a long, indefinite period without regard to unforeseeable conditions: a permanent employee; the permanent headquarters of the United Nations.
    3. long-lasting or nonfading: permanent pleating; permanent ink.

    Definition #2 I believe would be the one that most have in mind. Giles touched on this briefly, but there are lots of things in life that are permanent... until they aren't.

    I'm permanently employed... until I get laid off.
    I'm living at a permanent address... until I move.
    I'm permanently in chastity... until I'm not.

    Permanence doesn't require something to be irreversible -- as most things in reality are reversible. Besides, we already have a term for permanent, irreversible chastity -- "castration".

    Perhaps the issue is more that the term "chastity" is not well-defined. Again, to the dictionary:
    1. refraining from sexual intercourse that is regarded as contrary to morality or religion; virtuous.
    2. virgin.
    3. not engaging in sexual relations; celibate.
    4. free from obscenity; decent:
    5. chaste conversation.
    6. undefiled or stainless:
    7. chaste, white snow.
    8. pure in style; not excessively ornamented; simple.
    9. Obsolete. not married.
    I don't see "the ornamentation of one's anatomy with a device intended to prevent intercourse" on this list, so I would have to argue the point that what you call "denial" in fact means "chastity". Another term would need to be selected for the wearing of a chastity device. "Device-wearing" perhaps?
     
  15. 4everlock
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    Tom Allen strikes again. Lol. You are an etymological genius.

    As much as we split hairs, unless we shave, about our cages, and the permanence or temporary permanence or fixed or variable interval permanence, you have always been here to moderate splendiforously (I don't know if that is a word but it sounds cool) to make sense of that word that we keep using. I mean this in the highest regard.

    It's like in the princess bride when inigo Montoya hears Vizzini saying, inconceivable, all the time. He says, you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    We really don't know what permanent is. Love the whole "indefinite" thing. Probably a choice word to use, if we are "permanent".

    I am permane.......... , indefinitely locked. The only definite thing is clean and shave and that's it. But it is indefinite, yet I definitely have times where I have to deep clean and shave. So it's indefinite, except for those definite reasons.

    I would say permanent, but 8 or so times a year removing it would definitely preclude that. So I would like to go on record permanently that i am locked in chastity indefinitely, except those definite times I unlock.

    Again, I salute you Tom, for keeping this topic alive on CM permanently. It is an indefinitely fun topic.
     
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  16. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    Note 1: "cost or effort to remove." Mrs Edge could easily produce a key, but I don't think that's what you mean. I think you're implying that there is an agreed upon installing and removal of some device. However, where does this leave those who play without devices?​

    Not quite. The effort applies to all parties and makes spontaneous release impossible. It also introduces a cooling off period, and perhaps a financial deterrent. Finally the symbolism itself empowers the "keyholder".

    If you don't have a device, that's something else, because you theoretically could just quit on the spur of the moment, even if you won't. (NB this is not a competition, we're just defining a style.)

    Note 2: This almost implies orgasm denial/control, in addition to being locked. So, are we mixing denial with being caged? This is where that matrix tries to make a distinction (and why isn't it a sticky post yet? :)), but it also raises the question: do regular orgasms make for being a part of permanent chastity?​

    I think it's possible to be in This Style of chastity and get off anally, or with a vibrator.

    Note 2a: Not caused by the device? Not sure I get this.​

    If the device causes problems, then it acts like a release timer. Sooner or later it will HAVE to come off.

    Note 3: "Expectation of removal does not significantly increase over time." I really life this one, because it makes the point that "permanent" is more about an indefinite period of time.​

    Also applies in the short term. If a key exists, then it's possible to feel that the events of an evening are leading toward a release.

    Note 3a: I wondered if adding something like "... or the performance of tasks, merits, or good behavior." That is, can we add to this. But again, are we also makign "orgasm denial" an essential part of "permanent chastity"?​

    Not needed, because a merit system or targets increases the expectation of unlocking over time.

    Note 4: This is also good. Anybody can slap on a cage for a weekend. But a week? 2 weeks? A month? Six months? At some point one becomes aware of the intention and effort into this.[/QUOTE]​

    Yes. Another possibility would be to describe it as a "body modification".
     
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  17. lockedforfun
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    I think there's an implicit question of just what is permanent? I can think of at least 5

    1. The physical installation of the device
    2. The wearing of the device (however installed)
    3. The keyholder's control of when the device is worn
    4. The denial of orgasm.
    5. The keyholder's control of orgasm.
    All 5 could be reasonably called "chastity", so you could be in "permanent chastity" where your keyholder has permanent control of when the device is worn and she unlocks you every other week. I'm happy to let anyone call their situation "permanent" if that is hot for them.

    Oh, but I'll offer another entry to the lexicon - perpetual. That might be a good word for describing the above "unlocks you every couple of weeks" scenario. It's a perpetual cycle of being locked back up after being unlocked. I'm in "perpetual chastity" because I know if my wife unlocks me, then I will be re-locked soon after.
     
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  18. King Hippo
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    ***queueMusic.exe***
    ***WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP***

     
  19. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    LOL - okay, seriously: We all (or most of us) love the idea of "permanent chastity." It's hot. It's sexy. The idea of giving up that kind of control over such a basic, animal urge makes us swoon.

    But when we say "permanent chastity", what is it that we actually mean? What is the feature that makes us hot? My contention (subject to change) is that having no control over the length of time, of not having any end in sight is what gets our motors running.

    Anyhow...
     
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  20. King Hippo
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    King Hippo Active member

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    For those who didn't know....

    Chas.png

    Also for those who didn't know...

    Extr.png
    Perm.png

    Permanent Chastity....

    Lasting or intended to lasted or remain unchanged indefinitely

    The state or practice of refraining from sexual intercourse "occurring outside marriage", to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.

    ***Goes back to the river***
     
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  21. Tom Allen
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    I absolutely agree! Who started this stupid discussion anyho... oh.
     
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  22. anasyrma
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    anasyrma Active member

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    Generally no expectation of being released on a regular basis, but always hoping, never knowing if it will happen from one day to the next. Life imprisonment with the possibility of parole.
     
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  23. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    When you shave, do you use Occam's razors? Because this makes me wonder if you are adding variables beyond necessity. ;)

    A device that can not be easily unlocked, and a device that can be easily unlocked but never is, produce the same results. My concern is that this condition implies something to the concept, but I can't exactly explain what.
     
  24. DarkKnight
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    DarkKnight In service of the Dark_Queen

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    I love it when there is thoughtful discourse on words / things that we all have taken for granted at some time or another. I find myself agreeing with many of the points and simplifying it in my own mind.

    What of the young elephant that is shacked by one leg via a length of chain to tree or structure. He quickly learns that his freedom is severely limited and he can not free himself. Over time he begins to associate the shackle alone with being restrained. Eventually he just stops trying to free himself - an implied limitation. This is why you see such a large animal chained to a small stake in the ground and they don't try to free themselves.

    I can see the same for us and chastity. If you have participated for a length of time, hopefully you've gone slowly enough and accept your circumstance, then, permanence can feel quite real regardless of all the times you have to remove the device to clean, visit doctors, etc. While we all crave the physical aspect of chastity... the weight of the device, the constriction and discomfort of an erection, the inevitable binding of skin under your scrotum AND the bearing of that pain.... are we not all "permanently" chaste if our mind tells us that we are?
     
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  25. Sipriotes
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    Lol, I wasn't meaning to throw (that much) shade, but I feel that this was well discussed in the two or three threads already existing on it and your own blog post.

    Additionally, the creation of this thread appeared to have been directly related to your giving the eye roll emoji to @Giles_English in another thread when he described his situation as "permanent". Giles! Who has gone to great lengths to create a (well-documented) situation that by all reasonable measures is "permanent".

    Hence my fear that this has progressed beyond a debate on correct use of language and into more of a "no true Scotsman" situation that lends itself to gatekeeping and (locked) dick-measuring.
     
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