Permanent chastity? Indefinite? Lifestyle? Sealed? Got any other terms you like or hate?

I think they produce the same results on the calendar, but not in the relationship.

Sealing symbolically shifts the chastity to a "done deal", removing implicit pressure on the keyholder, making both parties treat it as if it were a permanent body modification.

Unlocking rather than locking becomes a big deal involving emotional labour, inconvenience, some risk, financial cost, and a cooling off period. Ultimately, breaking something is psychologically different from unlocking it. This greatly reduces the expectation of being released.

Meanwhile, release is completely off the table during sexy time. Even if the partner suddenly wants sex, or feels guilty, or sentimental, there's no way to get out of the device right now. You'll both have to wait until morning (by which point the moment has passed).

 

PLEASE NOTE: Tom and I are trying to nail down a particular style of chastity relationship, not gate keep, and that this isn't about repeating debates over language definitions.

This is about finding the boundaries of a thing that already exists, and worrying about the precise name later.

There are at least 4 broad human personality types, so it follows that there's going to be more than one way of doing chastity.

 

This, I think, is my favorite thread of all time. Like someone said about Mozart: To add or change one note would be to somehow diminish it. So I won't.

But within the discourse I saw two possible action items that may be fun to try.

1. Create another matrix. Maybe a 2 X 2 won't cut it, so we may need a scattergram or something. For example a five pointed graph leaving a pentagon of varying dimensions. I think it would be interesting to take Giles' points and self evaluate and graph them.

2. A poll could be created with 4 or 5 nominated terms for what may become a consensus pick for our future lexicon.

I will remain permanently interested in this topic! (to copy someone who already used this pun)

Laz

 

Orrrrrrr,

Maybe the existing 2 X 2 matrix could have a defined zone. Suppose you exceed, say, a "7/7" on the scale you enter into the "Permanent Zone"!!!!

Oh jeez....now what have I done......

 

Yes. A matrix, or a 3rd Axis to Tom's chastity matrix might be useful.

 

Ah ha!

I think the difference is in the Future Probability of Release, not specific arrangement. So you could be an 8/10 but with a set release date.

So:

3: Keyholder will never voluntarily change the arrangement
2: Likelihood of arrangement changing increases slightly over a time period related to the C axis.
1. Arrangement is limited time only.

 

I believe there is a term for what is going on right now in this thread. Ain't it called "crowd thinking" or something like that? The point being the collective wisdom of a crowd--if genuinely considered by the crowd--creates a far better solution than that could have been attained otherwise?

Either way, I love it.

 

I definitely didn't mean to rain on anyone's epistemology parade or impute wrong motives to what you're doing. Carry on, if you must.

I'm more questioning the need, as a community, to adopt anything more rigid/structured/confusing than existing definitions and connotations -- barring of course Tom's existing matrix, which seems to have been well-received and well-understood by many. Unless one of you is writing a graduate thesis on chastity that requires a strict taxonomy -- presumably on your quest to be the first-ever Doctor of Locked Cocks

My concern is not that you are intending to gate-keep or establish hierarchy, but that these will be the inevitable result of such a system if and when it gains any sort of traction. Which is a real possibility given both of your audiences.

I am having trouble believing that any confusion over the term "permanent chastity" is a result of poorly defined syntax. As we established, both of these terms have very clear dictionary definitions made even clearer by their use in context on this forum. "The practice of sexual abstinence in perpetuity or intending to continue indefinitely". The addition of a word like "locked" or "sealed" adds further information, implying the use of some type of device to aid in said practice of abstinence.

So if I were to say something oxymoronic such as "I'm locked in permanent chastity for the next month", I doubt it's because of inadequate definitions of the words "locked", "permanent" or "chastity" or confusion over their meaning. Rather, it should be assumed that perhaps I have purposely or subconsciously exaggerated my situation by choosing to use words that do not correctly describe my reality.

As you've mentioned, the connotations and innuendos surrounding the term "permanent chastity" are quite strong, and so I assume they are well-understood by any who have even a passing interest in the lifestyle. Thus it stands to reason that one may choose to use such a term in order to attempt to boost his credibility or standing within the community.

SO... even if we were to create a strong, academically rigorous taxonomic system for male chastity, it still fails to solve the problem faced by our community - and every other niche interest - of those who, for whatever reason, deliberately misrepresent themselves. While it may weed out some, it will have a greater effect of putting off some of those who are genuinely interested in connecting with the community. (If you don't think it will happen, remember the calls for everyone to put their TomAllen numbers in their sig or profile. Imagine doing that with a 19-axis code that requires reading a 50-page thread to even begin to comprehend. Ugh.)

But of course don't let me stop you if you're having fun... or if you're working on that doctoral thesis

 

You crazy son of a bitch!

 

Agreed there. No control over the conditions is the special sauce, so to speak, for me. "Here's the key. All future decisions are now out of my hands..."

I don't personally find the idea of never being unlocked to be hot, but I do find the idea of having no say over whether I ever am or not to be very hot.

 

It occurs to me that technology and dynamic are tangled here, and the tech is the least interesting.

Logically, a device can be "permanent" if you have to break or destroy something to get out of it. Degrees of device permanence go up in cost and effort to escape (e.g. Permalocker < My device < glueing or welding a high-end device < Mina's Bitch's titanium thing) .

However, what's more interesting is the dynamic that such devices support; "Permanence" can be a direction not a destination.

Having hung out on the chastity web for years, I can see two different relationship paths:

• Adventure Chastity is all about the locking and unlocking, the teasing, the ruined orgasms etc. Some couples seem to make that work indefinitely. This is closest to what used to be regarded as a "healthy sexual relationship". People doing this are having a lot of fun.
  
• Identity Chastity is about "neutering-lite" or "desire but no functional penis." It's analogous to contraception in that technical solutions vary from very temporary, through those involving a routine, to the semi-permanent and (very) rare actual permanent. Often there will be a pattern of releases, but only because they seem necessary. With a good device, the releases tend to get further apart. The closest relationship analogy I can find is the 18th century obsession with eunuchs as objects of desire (Eunuchs could experience lust but had very unreliable orgasms, could rarely achieve erections, but did involve themselves in relationships.)

These two paths are separate and not on a continuum. However, people usually have one as a baseline and visit the other from time to time, which confuses motivation.

Ultimately, though I get a masochistic kick out of Xena teasing me about not being able to cum, and an even bigger kick out of wildly erotic experiences where I can't cum, my "permanent" chastity device is really about us both preferring me to be locked.

Perhaps Identity Chastity (or whatever we call it) is what we should really be talking about?

 

@Giles... That's good stuff.

First, let me point to your correct spelling and grammatical use of "continuum". I am sure it was your literary aptitude and not spell check that helped. I understand from your posts that you are an experienced writer. Well done.

Next, your substance of thought about "identity chastity", is well spoken, and indeed something to consider. This is due to the variables that you point out that a person could identify with all, or some, of the characteristics of it, yet be identified in the same general category.

Using my situation as a model to examine, I will show what I mean. The primary here is determining "(blank) chastity", with the rhetorical question of in which category my chastity traits and goals fall. A person need not demonstrate all, but just seeing which qualities dominates our thinking and situaton can help us have self determination.

Situation: With an Ill wife unable to enjoy intimacy and now asexual, and my very high libido, and the frustration of being unable to feed it, chastity was the clinical, mental and sexual answer to my problems.

Identity Chastity commonalities (using your benchmarks):

Neuteeing-lite. Definitely yes. The desire is always there. But the effect of wearing my cage all the time has given me a neutered effect by taking the sexual function away from me.

I am older, and wife was not able to bear children, so the contraception does not apply in my case, yet the permanent suppression of sexual contact is accomplished. Yes, in this aspect, there is permanence in the absolute and literal sense.

In my case, there is no "pattern", technical or otherwise, of releases. Release is random, as needed for shaving and a little extra cleaning, though with my style of cage, I don't really need to remove it to clean.

As to the comparison with eunuchs, obviously I am in a relationship, married for a very long time. I have a very high libido, and lust is just a natural extension of that.

I do not have orgasms, but physically the ability is there, but I am mentally reprogrammed from chastity training to not want to have an erection. That physical restraint of the constant presence of the cage, created a synchronizing in my brain to not want erections, so constant restriction and confinement has caused me to both physically and mentally identify myself as eunuch-like.

Chastity, whether you want to call it "permanent", "permanent except..." is subjective to the various thought processes (it's like a cellular provider with 4 different "unlimited" plans. I didn't know unlimited had limits, but apparently it does. Like alternative facts, and fake news, which both will hopefully be gone today.)

However, your label of Identity Chastity seems a logical choice, basd on my self analysis. I am simply a devoted man willing to surrender to the needs of my wife. The three years plus that I have been locked in my cage has trained me well.

Thank you for your analogies. It is probably the simplest way for anyone to do self analysis, and choose what best described them.

 

Thanks! And thanks for sharing. To clarify, I meant that Identity Chastity was analogous to female contraception, e.g. locking up for the night is like putting in the dutch cap, being sealed in is like having the coil installed etc.

Your case points to a nuance! There's a difference between motivation and lifestyle. To me, chaste is a semi-voluntary sexual identity. To you, it is more of a necessity due to external circumstances.

I think "neutering-lite" is probably therefore a better term, since you can arrive at it for a variety of reasons. The "lite" part is important, because there's still the potential for desire and lust, and even - through imperfect lateral means - orgasm. Other alternatives might include "Cage-Neutered"

 

Yes, a permanent device does deny the keyholder, but so would some horrid body modification. Limited choice is a feature for both parties.

Humans tend to think with objects, the real is symbolic, the symbolic becomes real. So the relative mechanical permanence of the device can be helpful for both parties, but - as you've found out - isn't critical to Identity Chastity.

However, I wonder how Mrs Edge would feel if a practical-for-you permanent device was available for installation? Xena regards mine as a slight improvement on her just having the key, but was very certain that I should have it.

The progression from Adventure to Identity Chastity seems so common that it's worthy off a different thread. I also have theories about it, but would like to define terms first.

 

A quick response...

I think there's levels of Identity Chastity (or should we call it Neutering-Lite?).

Also, a couple usually has an Adventure Chastity track as well - so, in your example Mrs Edge needs the control for the Adventure Chastity, whereas in my example, Xena likes that I am stuck and simply enjoys referencing it during Adventure Chastity.

Question: Is Mrs Edge an introvert or an extrovert. Where does she fit on the (scientifically not very valid) Yellow, Red, Green, Blue thing?

 

I shall repeat. This is my favorite thread of all. Thank you all for such great discourse AND sharing such reasoned thought on the subject.

Giles' notion of Identity Chastity is a breakthrough insight, I feel. In fact, he may have rendered the attempts to define "permanent" moot. Are you a man who adventures into acts of chastity? Or are you a chaste man?

Let's borrow language from the transgender community for a moment. What do we read and hear? It's never, "well, I am permanently a woman now." Instead, at least from my perspective, you hear, "I identify as a woman." (you can reverse the male/female words, but I make the same point) Further, you don't hear "I identify as a woman.....now."

Using another example for athletes. Consider these two sentences: I play football. I am a football player.

So maybe the challenge is to come up with two catchy terms for each type: The Chaste Man. And the Chastity Player.

Laz

 

I think the Adventure folks aren't dabbling, though. If anything they are having a wilder time than the Identity folks. It's almost comparing applies and hair brushes. These are two different tracks.

For the sports comparison, it's more like, "I ski as a sport" vs "Skiing is how I get around most of the year. (which does not preclude also doing it as a sport)."

For gender, I'm not sure. Identity Chastity has resonances with trans, but Adventure Chastity is more like wild non-binary gender benders in Weimar Germany.

 

I'm not on-board with the "Identity" definition of "neutered-lite." I think that's just an expression of one particular kink (perhaps as Giles suggests, aligned with trans). i think there's an equally valid identity of "I have a functional, maybe even powerful, penis, but it is owned and controlled by someone else."

The key for me is whether the sexual relationship uses chastity to add spice, or if it is defined by chastity.