The Dignity of Women

Thanks for those highlights! I've always thought the authors of scripture elevated women in eras and cultures where they were suppressed. It will be good for me to go back and reflect on that.

It seems clear to me in reading that passage that it was the authors observations and not a slave contact at all. By the end, the wife is described as being honored and praised.

Although I don't think it was your intent, you raise a good point: ancient literature has to be viewed and interpreted based on its context. What one values today from a passage like this isn't found in the details. And those details can't bee prescribed for today's context. It certainly would be written differently in modern times.

 

This thread took an unfortunate negative turn. What I had hoped for this was to focus on the essence of a culture or religion that promotes equality and dignity of women, not on how sinful men have twisted those principles for their selfish gain.

For those who don't share my Christian faith, I would love to hear your views on other cultures / religions that value women. A quick search led me to this interesting article that make me want to dig deeper about the background of these societies.

What are the traits and principles we can raise up, admire and learn from?

 

Well said! Sinful men have distorted God's truth over the course of history but His principles haven't changed.

 

I came across this article summarizing the findings of recent research done in Australia concerning the affect of inequity in a marriage relatiionship on the libido of the wife. "Researchers from Australia set out to answer the question: how does mental load inequality change women’s libido? They asked women questions about their level of sexual desire, and also questions about how equal the emotional and mental labour around the house was."

The research was interesting to me in at least two aspects. One, they measured libido 2 different ways: sexual desire for their husband and individual sexual desire in general. Second, they attempted to categorize marriages into 3 groups: homes where the wife carried the majority of the household burden, homes where the burden was evenly divided, and homes where the husband carried the majority of the household burden. Unfortunately, they couldn't find enough of the 3rd group to provide accurate results.

The researchers "found that women who carry more of the mental load than their partners have lower dyadic desire (sexual desire for their husband), and their relationship satisfaction is lower as well. Interestingly, they didn’t find tha solo desire changed much, but just the desire for partnered sex–so it seems that women who are in unequal partnerships may begin to feel resentment at being taken advantage of for so many years, and as a result their libidos tank. "

From a Christian perspective, the article mentions the biblical concept that couples are to be equally yoked, the concept coming from 2 oxen pulling a plow. If one is doing most of the work, the plow & oxen are going to veer off into the ditch.

The message is for men who are frustrated because of their wives low libido / low sexual desire for them to look at themselves; are they pulling their share of the weight at home? If not, they shouldn't expect that the switch will turn on immediately if they start doing more. It will take time to repair the damage done from years of neglect.

 

That appears to be another news report about the same research results.

 

I was reading Jay Stringer's book "Unwanted" and came across a reference to "The Vow of Onah". This is a traditional Jewish marital vow for the husband that elevates the wife's needs & desires above his own.

In doing some research, I came across this blog post by Dr Tina Sellers. Below is the relevant excerpt to this thread, but the entire post is worth a read.

"Sex is considered a woman’s right, not a man’s. The husband is given the commandment of ‘Onah which is one of the religious obligations he assumes at marriage, ‘Onah is the commandment to supply all forms of well-being and pleasure to the wife. According to Hebrew scholar Moshe Idel, the term ‘Onah as a religious obligation is not connected to the sexual satisfaction of the husband, but to the special sexual needs of the wife. The husband has a duty to ensure that all forms of sexual touch are pleasurable for her. He is also expected to watch for signs that his wife wants intimate touch and to offer it without her asking for it."​

I also came across this mention on Wikipedia that I thought was worth noting. One rabbi summed up the Vow of Onah: “One should ease his wife's mind and make her happy, prepare her and nurture her with words that make her happy so that she feels passionate towards him (which will be apparent in her breathing and eyes).”

I had never heard of "The Vow of Onah" until yesterday. When I started this journey with chastity at the beginning of the year, I had no idea where it would take me and my wife. All I knew was that I wanted to stop pleasuring myself & relinquish control of my sexuality over to my wife. Much of what we've learned via trial and error and from many resources like CM has led us to an intimacy in marriage much like what is described in Tina's post. For us, it's a sign of God's blessing and sovereign guidance in our marriage.

 

There were many fake "gospels" authored that had to be sorted out in the first few centuries by the early church. They were pretty easy to identify as not being genuine. Copies still exist today for those that are curious.

I don't know what your sources are but either you have "secret" knowledge of the past or your sources lack basic knowledge of manuscript evidence of ancient literature especially the Bible. There are Old Testament manuscripts (copies of copies... of the original writings which can be dated to at least 100 BC. There are also fragments of New Testament writings that can be dated to 100 AD. The process of making copies to ensure accuracy down through the ages has been proven to be meticulous so much so that when copyists discovered an obvious error, they would not change it because their job depended on the accuracy of their work. There are literally over 10,000 transcripts of portions of the Bible in existence from different eras and parts of the world that can now be used for comparison purposes to say with a very very high degree of certainty we have the original text of the New Testament canon.

The King James Bible was just one of the first credible English translations made from the existing then available Greek and Hebrew transcripts. All of the major English versions today have been translated from the latest available Greek and Hebrew texts and do NOT rely on the King James version for translation decisions.

@Proud to be chaste makes a valid point that we don't know who the authors and contributors were to many of the books of the Bible. There are certainly scenes that could only have been contributed by females since they were the only observers. But even if they were mostly authored by men, the same is true of other ancient writings of those time periods. So are those works disreputable? I'd like to send every person who makes an outrageous statement like that back in time to live for 30 years and have them come back and report to us on the social and human rights practices. Heck, maybe just have them live as a female in Saudi Arabia in our present day and then have them lead the civil rights movement to overthrow those social barriers.

Sorry for the rant.... Based on what we know of societies during biblical times, the Bible elevates women above what was common in those eras and is evidence for it's authenticity. The authors were often martyred for such heretical beliefs and weren't willing to back down from the truth in the face of death.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that there weren't female rulers or authors during this era. But the # compared to their male counterparts pale in comparison. And the cultures that supported them were few. Today, there are marked differences in many countries & societies today but still much needs to be done.

Back to the post I made about "the Vow of Onah". Here is an example of a custom tied closely to the Jewish faith and the Old Testament scriptures that attempts to dignify women's needs above a man's and treat them with sacrificial love and care, something that is championed here in CM by many. I'm pointing out that others have espoused these principles previously. But they got lost, trashed and buried. I think there's merit to understanding that these values & practices have a cultural & religious basis that goes back to some of the earliest recorded eras in human history. It helps us to lock in on this mindset and say "Yeah! This is the way things were meant to be!"