Chastity cages and Christianity

@ChasteJase i you may have misunderstood. Maybe I was a little exuberant with my wording, probably down to the consumption of maybe one too many alcoholic beverages.
I was not being disrespectful, that’s just me expressing myself after a few. I will aim to stop that in the future.
I’ve clarified my words so you don’t think I am ‘pissing all over religion’

Wtf is this thread?

• how can there be so many replies about this subject that’s barely related to chastity. I fail to see how being chaste is in any contradiction to being religious. How can there be so many replies around the subject.

I’m not religious. I’m not a hater on religion. But all this just upsets me.

• I appreciate that people get comfort from the bible and their beliefs. I have no issue around this, but I don’t feel the need to read versus myself, not debate these.

Is there not a passage you could read about judging others?

• the initial posts and argument around it should suggest that people should be more respectful.

My philosophy in life is Karma. Which should work for all religions. If your hurting someone else, than you deserved to be hurt.
If I’m not listening to my KH and I’m forcing chastity upon her. Than that’s not right. If she’s happy and she’s benefits than that’s ok.

• surely a key philosophy in any religion would be to treat others with the respect you’d allow yourselves.

Why do we need to read passages and verses from times gone by to know that we should just treat others how we would like to be treated?

• I dont really need to read scriptures or passages to know that we should be respectful.

If that’s not good enough for a god than fuck that cunt. He expects too much.

• What is an expectation other than committing no sins? Which realistically is to not hurt others or the environment around you. Translations of gods words would instigate the writing of some else’s interpretations of that. My interpretation is clear. I don’t need rules to be a good person.

No man in the world actually reads instructions. If a god was truly omnipresent and lived this life he’d have known and not written down his thoughts in a bible… an instruction manual for man! He got it wrong.

• Men don’t read instructions.

 

IB-chaste: I saw this initial post late last night and your additional post this morning. Thanks for sharing your thoughts but I assumed you might have been a bit under the influence when you wrote this as you confirmed subsequently.

I'm not sure where your question about reading a passage about judging others came from. I didn't find it in this thread. It seemed to come out of the blue! Similarly your comments about how we should treat others didn't seem to be a focus of this thread either. It was quite confusing to me.

I think you misunderstand to focus of the Bible. I actually don't see it as much different than a website like CM. Hear me out. The Bible is actually filled with stories much like CM is filled with the journeys of men & women who are experiencing & exploring chastity. CM is also filled with content, instruction & advice on many aspects of chastity and many people come here to learn and understand. Without the "instruction manual" here on CM, I don't know how many would figure it out. The same can be said of the Bible. I view the Bible as God's love letter to mankind where He reveals Himself to man. The purpose is so that those who are interested can seek Him, find Him and know Him. Along the way, He provides stories & content so that man can live an effective & abundant life. He doesn't force Himself on anyone.

While I'm not the OP on this thread, I see it as a place for Christians and those who practice chastity to find the intersection of chastity and Christian beliefs and discuss them. When I started reading the stories and content on CM, I was surprised to find the overlap of ideas & principles. I was also shocked that it better enabled me to "treat others (my wife particularly) how they would like to be treated" which was in accordance with Christian principles taught in the Bible. I'm a better person & husband as a result of some of things I've found here and for that I'm extremely grateful!

 

I'm curious! What would be your take on a "Chastity Cages and Islam" thread?

 

Maybe “judgement” would be the incorrect word. Disagreements perhaps. Bickering. I didn’t read every post but it appeared that a lot on this thread were arguing their own points. It somewhat astounded me. With that I believe I was trying to suggest that you should all really calm it down and be respectful to what others say… but it’s not a massacre of each other’s thoughts by any means… but I found the correct passage to sum up my thoughts:
Proverbs 20:3 ‘It is to one’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel.’

My post was mainly around my amazement about how greatly this subject is discussed. It’s certainly provocative. I didn’t mean to be disrespectful. Although, when I read back I probably was being without realising.
as for calling it an instruction manual, it was a tongue in cheek remark. I completely understand the comfort and support the bible and other scriptures provide. Where as some will seek that for in their life, I personally seek the advice of my own father. He normally puts me on a good path.

However, as my wife dominates me in the bedroom she often quotes the bible it seems…
“Tremble and do not sin; when you are on your bed, search your hearts and be silent.” Psalms 4:4
Then the caning commences. “Shhh” she demands.

 

That's a great verse! There is some value in the "instruction manual"!

OMG!!!!! Too funny!

 

I'll let you know when someone raises it as a topic and introduces the ways they justify locking their pecker in a cage for their chosen god. I'm sure, if I have the time, I'l lhave an opion on i.

Although, like the Bible, self control is a big deal in the Quran and so I'd be surprised if any except the biggest of wankers could justify it.

How about you?

 

I had asked why haters couldn't just ignore this thread, but what I am hearing from you is that the monstrous topic of religion so offends your sensibilities that you simply have no ability to control your public disdain for it regardless of the charter of this website. I think debate is a good thing, but you appear to come on to any thread about Christianity and start flaming. I know atheist in real life and they similarly have to make it frequently known just how stupid they believe people are who believe in a higher being and purpose. It actually is to a point where I can't help but think "Me think thou dost protest too much." Keep it to yourself.

I believe I saw that @L-u-c-y banned you for your comments on another religious thread for being an "arsehole." I don't think anyone is asking for "tax breaks or special treatment" but I do think that it is reasonable to expect to be able to start a thread and have a conversation in that thread that stays on topic without having someone come in and tell them how stupid their underlying beliefs are.

Ultimately, this is Ms. Lucy's site and if she wants to ban talk of Christianity and Cages and send people to start a LockedCockChristians.com, that is 100% her call. However, I suspect that she has no issue with this topic or any other thread that doesn't violate her charter. She probably also wasn't freaking out about the idea of Elon Musk buying Twitter, but I digress. This is my last word on this topic, and I'm sorry I didn't have enough self control to leave it alone already.

 

I think you're saying that you only want discussions where there are no opposing views and everyone agrees with you.

Makes me wonder why you tagged me if you didn't want me to engage with your post.

I'm not atheist, btw, so not a good guess.

 

I guess you are calling me out of retirement to address this.

Dude, you keep missing the point by 100 miles. I tagged you because I was calling you out for being a troll, not because I wanted to engage you and debate you with my post. The point was simply learn how to STFU and be civil to people. This thread was started by someone who wanted to discuss Christianity and Cages. People were having interesting conversations about their beliefs on that topic. You came in here and into every other Christian thread purely to troll and flame Christianity. It's either that or you genuinely wanted to engage in some civil discourse and your social skills just suck balls. We get it, you don't agree with Christianity or the views of those who practice it or want to tie it into chastity.

And your barbs about "sky daddy" and "fairy tales" naturally led me to conclude that you were atheist. Please forgive me if I have offended your religious persuasion.

BTW - I have enjoyed your opinions and other posts on other threads, so I still respect you as a poster on this site in general. FWIW.

 

You use the word "faith" in two very different ways that to me at least are not connected. Yes I have faith to a certain degree about science, kids, etc... But those things provide continual data that can change my perspective and my mind. They are real information and relationships. Faith in a deity that cannot be proven and provides no credible data is an entirely different concept. And one where huge amounts of reliable data that refute religious claims are ignored or misunderstood.

It isn't faith that gets me through the day, it's determination, and the knowledge that most people in the world are pretty decent. We all have been since long before any of the primitive religions arose. You only have to look at nature to see how often cooperation is the norm. Niceness is the norm.

 

Beautifully written, I agreed with almost everything you said, I could edit it very little and it would be exactly how I feel. My dedication to my wife and belonging to her. That's me. Your knowledge of the Bible in the sexual relationship sense is clear and you put it so well. Christian couples should all read your post.

However, I am an atheist, so the little change would be to remove God. My motivation is the same as your own, but it comes from a different place. Sorry.


So here is my quick edit...


I am myself a devote atheist male, married to my lovely wife. For me marriage is wonderful and regular intercourse is nothing less than AMAZING. Neither me nor my wife really need any kink to spicy it up.

It was evident from the very beginning of our marriage that I have a significantly higher libido than my wife. At a later time, I also had a deep urge to make true selfless love the very core of my sexuality. For years, I struggled to reconcile these two sides of my sexuality. The answer used to be... masturbation! Stupid, I know. The logic was: If I masturbate->I want less sex->I will pester her less for sex. The premis behind this logic was that my higher sex-drive was in conflict with making my wife happy. The sex-drive was a negative force that needed to be put away by self-gratification, rather than a force that - channeled in the right way - could be a great benefit to both my wife and our marriage.

While wife was okay with me masturbating, she wasn't happy either - especially as it over time made me initiate less that she wanted. Also, making masturbation my primary outlet was conflicting with my view of what i intended marriage to be.

l, in Genesis Gods first "commandment" to human kind is to have sex (be fruitful and multiply). (This "commandment" might be built into us as a sex drive, perhaps the text simply means that both male and female are designed to be very sexual beings?) This "commandment" predates the fall. Sex is the very opposite of sin: sex is the ultimate expression of love, originally designed for a sin-less (pre-fall) world, a wolrd full of love and based on love, a world that knows of nothing other than love, where and everything and everyone is love; a world where God the creator is love and sex is the ultimate human expression of the very essence of God and the universe! (If this doesn't make a man urge to use his sexuality for the best for his wife - what will!)

I also think about Paul who writes that a husbands body is not his own, neither is a wifes body her own, their bodies belong to each other (1 Cor 7:4). Could this be a hint not to masturbate in marriage? I think so. It could certainly mean more, but it should at least mean abstaining from masturbation in a marriage (as long as it isn't encouraged by the spouse). If so, I would think there were quite a few christian couples in the churchs early days who practiced a lifestyle not too far from male chastity (honour system).

Think about it. Imagine they were just as sexual 2000 years ago. Then imagine a christian married man (with a high libido) sitting in the church of Cornith one Sabbath morning (or Sunday, whatever) listening to the latest letter from Paul being read. It has been a few days, and the wife hasn't been overly sexual lately. He already knows he is to "love his wife as his own body", so forcing her to have sex is out of the question. He also knows that his sex drive is way higher than hers. And then he hears it - his body, including his penis and his sexuality, belongs to her and her alone! He imidiately realizes that he has no right to use her penis for his own gratification only. His head is racing: "But what about the fact that I am desperate for sex after a few days only? What about the fact that she according to Tora is not to have sex with me for 1-2 weeks every month?" What if she only wants sex once or twice a month - or less? He feels desperate, vulnerable, helpless... And at least a few of the men I can imagine have to conceal a rock hard boner behind their robe, this morning in church...

I don't think the bible ever calls masturbation a sin. But if you are a Christian it is probably a deviation from Gods purpose for marriage. I would never shame someone for masturbating and I condemn anyone for doing so. But I think it is better (in general) to save ones sexuality for sex with a spouse, and I think it shows extreme dedication and love for one spouse. It is a submissive lifestyle, and I believe that more than a few christian (or jewish, islam, etc.) felt quite submissive in their own way, even though they didn't use that word or conceptualised it differently

So what has MC done for me and me wife? It has given us more love, more intimacy, more closeness, more happiness, playfulness and joy, more acceptance (of the disparity in libido and of each others needs and preferences in general). And may I lend the religious vocabulary: male chastity has made our marriage a small taste of heaven; it has helped us closer to our ideal for marriage. In chastity, I am constantly reminded that I have huge needs that I can never meet myself. I depend on my wife and long for her grace (to give me sexual relief), which is also a reminder of human dependency on love. I feel helpless and sometimes humbled (MC kind of kills my masculine ego), and it reminds (agape love is a choice and a way of life, not something you do automatically) me to set her first in and outside bed. Both feel more loved, and my wife absolutely loves male chastity (even though she is not dominant naturally), and she wants to do it forever, and don't want me to masturbate ever again. I happily submit to her in and outside the bedroom, and she think it is a beautiful mark of my love and dedication for her.

Honestly, my primary inspiration for becoming a submissive is to be a.bettrr person. I really believe my love for my wife made me submissive! However, I am not a submissive that craves my wife to do certain acts of dress a certain way (for those of you who are - good for you! I respect that a lot, it's just not me). I am simply extremely turned on by the thought of making her happiness the very purpose of my sexuality - to use my sexuaility to please her sexually and non-sexually, not serving my own pleasure, but serving her.

Male chastity can be many different things, and as you said, I don't judge. But I can testify that MC (among other things) for some can be an amazing tool for making a marriage (regardless world view) a taste of heaven. If a sex-toy can help a couple to get closer to our purpose for human sexuality, I am sure it's a good thing! And I honestly believe that him not masturbating and her still remaining totally free to have sex when and how she wants, but not with whom ever she wants without consent (as well as deciding whether he can orgasm when having sex) would better most or (almost) all marriages.

 

Exactly the same. But with more recent subjugation and abuse of women to critique. Where there is inaccuracy bring truth.

 

I see this more as an open debate. I respect everyone's opinion and their right to call anyone out for inaccuracies. This is the internet, if you're smart enough to join the discussion your smart enough to realise that this isn't personal. I will attack the idea but not the person. Ideas are fair game.

 

Totally respect your standpoint, Jay Sub! What I really like about your post is that you show respect for religious thinking even when you don't believe in any god. I think that is a good trait for any person, regardless world view. I always try to be open to learn from any tradition (not just western Christian/Jewish ones).

 

While meditating on the following passage of scriptire, I came across a couple of interesting observations:

Malachi 2:15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth. 16 “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful. (NIV)

Twice the prophet says to "be on your gaurd and do not be unfaithful". The obvious repitition indicates the author wants us to be sure to take note (duh).

1. He says to "be on your guard" - "take heed" in the KJV. The definition of the Hebrew word for this is: to hedge about (as with {thorns}) that {is} guard; generally to {protect}. It seems to me a chastity cage is a practical means to accomplishing this objective. The suggestion of thorns immediately made me think of the spiked anti-pullouts that accompany some cages.
2. He says "do not be unfaithful". One commentator suggests that the prophet was referring to failing to fulfill your covenant commitment (marital vows) to your wife. This reminds me of Paul's charge in 1 Corithians 7 to fulfill your marital duty to your spouse.

The coupling of these two concepts seems to me to bring the maximum benefit to a marriage relationship. One without the other will likely lead to negative consequences and will be difficult to sustain.

 

A point I've made before, that we have more that connects us than not. We are taught by society that the smallest difference in opinion should be polarised, blown up out of proportion. The intellectual method is to argue the idea not the person. Some on both sides of the debate, probably myself included at times, get frustrated and attack the person. Not all of those, especially with religious beliefs, that comment are actually making clear non personal arguments to their claims.

 

Matthew 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

I didn't realize or remember this until today, but Jesus repeated his admonition to take serious measures against uncontrollable urges that you struggle with. Again, it's hyperbole. This was repeated in a different context, date & time, and is recorded by both Matthew and Mark in their gospels. It's hard to come to grips that I spent so many years of my married life practicing habits that were so damaging to my relationship with my wife. It makes me even more determined to remain on this new path, continue our defensive measures (even with a KH, it's still a choice for me to continue in chastity), and try my best to make up for the lost years.

 

I had the same battle for so long - two strong desires that were seemingly at conflict with each other! How did you happen upon chastity and come to the realization that this tool could reconcile your conflict?

I loved your entire post BTW!

 

What does the bible say about wedding rings or other symbols of commitment between two married people? Maybe that's the lense through which to view this.

Maybe it's more about the commitment and keeping that commitment than symbols or workarounds (from a religious/biblical context)? Trying to justify a chastity cage in a religious context sounds a little like a woman justifying a super mega-big diamond wedding ring as "God will love me more because I have a more expensive ring". Does this make sense? I haven't read the bible in its entirety - y'all are clearly more versed than I, so this is purely a question to understand and think through the logic.

I am basically living the equivalent of what chastity provides and what many pursue it for (better connection, more energy, etc). And no cage is specifically required to achieve this (though can be a good reminder and help stay on track). I am also interested in what symbolic feelings and thoughts it provides. I wonder if for all practical purposes it's equivalent to a wedding ring? Which we both wear or don't wear depending on how we feel, remember, feel like we want to have it on, etc. We are nonetheless equally committed to each other whether we're wearing rings or not. It's a choice and it's all in our heads.

So maybe look at it from that perspective. Wouldn't God would say "man up and do the hard work on yourself to be a better person and a better husband"? And doesn't that lead to a better outcome anyhow? To make the conscious decision to live a certain way, and confront...any of the...personal challenges presented in the bible that humanity has dealt with over its existance?

If that makes sense, what does the bible say about wedding rings and symbols of marriage?

I am curious to hear thoughts on this. And not to say don't wear a cage, but does it need to be justified in a religious context or just used for what it's needed/wanted for?

 

I agree, that was an incredible post by Proud to be chaste.

 

@knightly, I think this is a complicated issue to say the least, as can be seen by the disagreements on this thread. There are different ways of interpreting a lot of the discussions here: 1) are you wanting to wear a cage as a kink but are otherwise trying to justify it in the Word of God?; 2) are you trying to find support in the Bible that God wanted men to wear chastity cages (a different way to justify it); or 3) are you trying to live your best life for you and your wife as a Godly man and believe that chastity is a great method for doing that (more of the commitment you mention)? I haven't read every post in this thread but I would like to think that most of the people advocating for a Christian angle to chastity come out on the 3rd point while many on this thread are attacking them from the viewpoint of the first 2 possibilities. Put plainly, I believe that these Christian men are in fact coming from the viewpoint that chastity (with or without a chastity cage) is a great way to honor their commitment to their wife and to God.

I believe that porn and masturbation and imperfect marriages are issues for millions of men out there, both practicing Christians and every one else. I think a commonality on this site is that there is either a belief in (with a goal to achieve) or actual living proof of how chastity within a marriage can improve both the man and the marriage. Likely, Christian men have even more guilt and shame regarding porn and masturbation habits, and dishonoring their wives. Perhaps they are more torn about whether a chastity cage is a "sex toy" or a tool. I listened to a podcast the other day with William from Mature Metal. He was asked if a cage is a "sex toy." He said something along the lines of "absolutely not. It's the opposite of a sex toy. It's a tool for prevent access to the ultimate sex toy." I thought that was a great way to look at it.

Within some of the criticism in this thread, I feel like there has been a bit of an air of the old "Ye hypocrite Christians! If you really were such Godly men, you wouldn't do XY or Z and you certainly wouldn't need a cage to honor your commitment to your wife and your God." What I love about Christianity (or at least my viewpoint on Christianity, because let's face it, there are probably over 100 different views) is that Christians understand that they are sinners and always will be. While there are some people who have a "better than thee" attitude, they give Christians a bad name. A "real" Christian (again, in my opinion) is humbled by their beliefs and understanding of our sinful nature. However, they don't just say "well, I am a sinner, but I have been saved by Jesus's grace, so I might as well cheat, kill and steal."

No, a good Christian tries to be a better man today than he was tomorrow. He understands he will fall and fail and sin, but he continues to strive to live his best life. There is a lot of inspiration in the Bible for living your best life, which is why the Bible is read. So if a man can read "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and. cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee. that one of thy members should perish, and not. that thy whole body should be cast into hell." and be inspired to wear cage to help not offend him, then where is the harm in that?

Alternatively, a strong Christian belief is to live your life in accordance with the Bible. Obviously, not everything is in the Bible. Most people don't say that iPhones aren't in the Bible so I shouldn't use one. But they may ask, does using an iPhone violate the Word? So, I also see the men on this thread asking in their own way "Does wearing a chastity cage violate or offend the Word of God?" They aren't trying to justify the cage, they are asking if it is against the teachings. I think it is beautiful that many on here have found that "No, wearing a cage does not violate the Word of God, but if fact can help us live more in accordance with the the Word." You may view that as justifying the cage, but I think it is different because it is genuinely coming from a different perspective.

 

Right on with all your points. I grew up with a variety of religious experiences ranging from Christianity to buddhism, many Jewish friends, etc. and the core message and ideas are solid.

I wondered, too, if a bit of the Parable of the drowning man comes in to play. To your point about iphones and 'accessories'.
"I gave you plastics and stainless steel and you still couldn't keep your hands off that thing."

 

Well said!

As I look at scripture, I see significance evidence of a recognition or prediction by it's authors that sexual compulsion / addiction can become a battle that men (and women) are unable to win out of sheer will. Neuroscience in the last 10-15 years has shown that porn has a deleterious effect on the brain. See Gary Wilson's work - Your Brain on Porn. And there is plenty of anecdotal evidence across the internet from thousands who recognize the difficulty of stopping porn use and/or masturbatory practice without help. Many turn to communities in places like NoFap.com, PureDesire.com, etc where they can find support. Many leverage porn blockers on their phones, computers, mobile devices, etc. to make it difficult to access addictive materials. Chastity is another tool to help with defeating those compulsions / addictions. The beauty of it is that it can also be used to change behavior to improve your relationship with a spouse / mate.

I think the challenge and controversy comes from the fact that there are uses of chastity that may be viewed by some as inconsistent with Christian / biblical viewpoints. For example, could it be used for purposes that are demeaning to other human beings? If so, does it mean that anyone who uses a chastity cage is participating in demeaning behavior? I think not. There are far too many things in life that can be used for both positive and negative outcomes. Then of course there are the gray areas between the negative and the positive. Those that utilize those tools and resources have to be cautious in where they draw the line and be cautious and introspective enough to see where they are trending.

 

I think also most Christians come from point 3 too, but then try to back it up with points 1 and/or 2. It's totally understandable, but that's also where it gets interesting. Where the discussion gets tougher, yes, but where both sides of the argument can learn the most.