Rights versus Priviledges

My wife loves chastity BECAUSE it makes me grope her more.

The real thing to be discussed as a couple is, are you each comfortable around each other? Do you enjoy each other's touch? How can we make it better?

Intimacy is magical and we should all be exploring ways to make it more frequent and enjoyable. I don't see it having anything to do with gender or chastity or relationship style.

 

Does anyone have a right when it comes to another person? I mean I can have the expectation that I get to see my wife's body because we are married, but that doesn't mean I have the right. It's her body. If she chooses to not let me see it, that is her choice. If I can't live with that choice I can choose to leave the relationship. I can't demand viewing as my right.

 

The days of a husband having the “right” to objectify, harass, force, demand anything from a their wife are over. It was a product of a different time, when women weren’t viewed as equals.

That isn’t how western society operates, but that doesn’t mean that each individual doesn’t have expectations about their relationship. Marriage is a contract. As with any contract, verbal agreements set precedent, and one person not following it may result in the dissolution of the agreement. Basically it’s “hey that’s not what we agreed to!”.

For example, if a couple had sex every day, was into kinky stuff, enjoyed being nude while courting, they talked about it, and both agreed that this was perfect and expected it to continue in their marriage...and then one of them decided that once every few months was enough and all the other stuff was gone, one of them has every right to be upset. That person has no “right” to make the other do anything, but would be understandably upset about the other not fulfilling their end of the agreement.

Chastity and all this FLR stuff I’m sure had quite a few wives thinking “hey, this isn’t what we agreed to” but when told this is what the husband wanted or he wouldn’t be happy, she had every right to be upset. What she compromised on is up to her. Accept it, be upset but stay, or leave. Same would be for a wife choosing to ban nudity. He can accept it, get upset but stay, or leave. Not really any different than any other disagreement between partners.

Being in a FLR really has nothing to do with it, besides the odds of leaving are lower since being told what to do is kinda your thing.

 

I'm not sure anyone is saying that their intent is to destroy the relationship, but if someone is selfish and thinks of only what they want rather than what is best for the relationship, they CAN do that.

If a woman denies a man long term, he tries to find outlets for his sexual urges, and she further shuts those down, is she doing what is best for the relationship or has she decided she wants to completely end the sexual part of it and is trying to force her partner to become as asexual as she wants to be?

 

My wife is not a fan of groping. It's hard to hold back when I see her naked but out of respect I hold back. She actually prefers piv. So it's been tough getting her to follow through with keeping me locked after she gets an orgasm.

That's what's great about all this. There is no one definition of what you should or shouldn't do. Bottom line. Do what you're KH wants to do and enjoy.

 

WOW! As they say. You hit the nail on the head . I know I could not have written anything like your post. You are so correct . It is all about respecting are wife's or KH and there wishes.

 

That's a fine line to walk. I think some burden is on the person that doesn't like the behavior. For example a man might think his wife likes the attention. If she simply accepts it without protest how is he to know better. Like most things it comes down to communication. For me I can be very playful. My wife is quite good at letting me know when my playfulness is pissing her off. I'm not talking sexual, just behavioral. If she just smiled and accepted it I wouldn't have the knowledge of boundaries that I do now.

 

Thanks for starting a new thread. I agree with the summary just quoted as a default “orientation” within a given FLR but would add to it, as per my posts in the thread that inspired this one, that we males should remember that we can change our minds and act on our new view whilst still being consistent with the philosophy of FLR. It all depends on the quality of the leader. Nothing in FLR requires acquiescence in matters of the quality of leadership,

 

You asked on another thread for me to share my view here.
I agree that we are all different. I would say I was wary of just letting anyone own me, because once I am owned, I am really owned. My sexual orientation means me being owned. It's not like I have a choice in life to just be vanilla heterosexual.
So here goes the depth of that ... I could come home to my wife banging four guys at once after spending all of our savings on cocaine, and I would still be her slave. She could commit amoral crimes, I would still be hers. Pretty much the only way I would stop being her bitch is if the power exchange stops. If she stops control, then there would be conversations to save the relationship before any real end.
OK, to be sure, my wife never has had a traffic ticket and would never do such extremes. She is an angel. But I believe without reservation that she knows what's best for us. And you see why I was careful in picking an owner. I could really be abused and just accept it.

 

Thanks for your very interesting post. Your wife must be wonderful, to deserve such adoration. I am fascinated by the kind of relationship you describe.
My only follow up point concerns your comment “I could really be abused and just accept it”. From what you say, the only determinant of what would be real abuse in your relationship would have to be the opinion of a 3rd party.

Now (please do not feel in any way obliged to answer what follows, and forgive the impertinence if it offends you or your wife): If your wife knows what’s best for you, would she permit you now to put on the record that you always have the option of asking for the opinion of 3rd parties in the future if you ever become worried about this question, bearing in mind that if that situation ever arose, gaslighting could be part of the abuse, so a record now could be useful.
Or would she take this suggestion as a sign of grave disloyalty?

 

An interesting thread with lots of different but complementary perspectives.

As someone said, the idea of "rights" is questionable in this day and age. Mutually agreed positions ease the way to a smooth relationship

 

Does the conversation change if you substitute "loving touch" for the word "grope" and mutually expected/implied behavior for rights?

 

I would say that one should certainly try to avoid overstepping the boundary between showing one's interest and harassment.

However, while we could now spend some time debating how to deal with situations where his idea of where that boundary is differs from hers, I want to talk about something more fundamental.

Sure, a man has no right to his wife. But it goes the other way too. A wife has no right to her husband. Either *both* partners consider the relationship satisfactory enough, or the relationship falls apart. So how do you respond to a wife cutting you off, so to speak? If I'm allowed to simlify a bit, I would say you ask yourself: is this a relationship I want to stay in? And you keep asking yourself the same question again and again, as the time goes by, because a week of denial is not the same as a month or a year. And once you find yourself answering "no", you either convince her to change her behavior, or stay in a broken relationship, or leave.

 

I don't think gaslighting would ever be or become an issue. Perhaps if I belonged to an abuser. And we communicate really well. So there's no need for third parties. I mean, she and I also are best friends. We actually hang out and do stuff together. She's not above, like, getting me a beer from the fridge.

But when I was younger and seeking a partner, I knew the depths of my slave desire. There are limits. No matter how dominant a woman would be, I could never involve children or eat shit or be made to commit crimes.

But as for locking me up in a cage at night, keeping me in no-release chastity, verbally degrading me, cuckolding me, beating me severely daily into deep subspace and forcing me to work all day, turn over my paycheck and assets, and be publicly humiliated, I probably could be taken into such extreme depths. But in my marriage, that's not how we roll, so it's only hypothetical. I just have always known female power turns me on and can blind my judgment.

I am sure there are male slaves living in some deeply trustful situations that would appear to be abuse by others.

 

That is a very good point. Sometimes as a punishment, Miss Amanda will forbid me to touch her or see her naked. This is another reminder of how much I need her. It is never for very long, and it is very effective.

 

This is a good question and having been there I can say for me when I offer myself TPE and CNC (Total Power Exchange and Consensual Non Consent) I mean it and may ask to be released in the extreme but if denied will stay and obey her, I find emotional abuse far harder than physical abuse.

 

Most of this topic has focused on non-consensual touching of male on female in a relationship and rights vs. expectations. I want to turn this around for a minute based on this excellent question. In our FLR relationship I have certain expectations regarding my wife and her role. I am not claiming a right to them, I just have expectations. Mainly they focus on her demanding and expecting my service (sexual and nonsexual) and punishing a failure to meet expectations. When she gets to a point where she just stops caring whether I perform or not, demands and expects nothing and doesn't care to enforce anything that I lose my way. So she isn't cutting off my touching, but she is cutting off her L in our FLR. At that point I unlock and we abandon our FLR roles and go back to our loving and respectful parity we had for a decade and a half before discovering chastity. Hardly a terrible thing. However, just as I have no right to her fulfilling her role, she has no right to expect me to fulfill mine. I still maintain that no human has a right to another. We can willingly give up our rights, but that is a choice we make as submisives. The gift of submission is a profound, trusting and beautiful gift to a dominant. The idea that we are actually slaves against our will is an illusion.

 

Once again thanks for your reply. I’m glad we are in hypothetical territory. As you say (effectively), each to their own. Who is a 3rd party to judge? Well, since you have indulged me this far (thanks!) I’ll call on your spirit of enquiry and ask you to consider what if hypothetically the female leader in one of the “we are happy, thanks” relationships you mention at the end of your post per the quote above and who knows her man does not wish to commit crimes designated “suffering Tuesdays” as a concept? The idea being that the male’s intense suffering at the female’s hands on any future Tuesday (eg being made to commit crimes as a test of loyalty) won’t matter at all, whereas on any other day of the week in the future she respects his wish not to be made to commit crimes.

Would not a 3rd party then have an “objective” argument that something was amiss in this hypothetical relationship? Tuesday crimes would have no justification if crime was agreed to be off limits on the other 6 days of the week?

In fact if he is rational wouldn’t the male be able to dispense with the need for a 3rd party view in this hypothetical scenario even if he is keen on FLR in general and especially this particular female leader? Crime ridden Tuesdays would be abusive Tuesdays, caused by bad female leadership; everyone could agree on that, and (to the theme of this thread) he would have a right to change his mind about loyalty to that particular female leader?


*Acknowledgement* I have adapted this from an idea about the definition of rationality by the philosopher Derek Parfit.

 

Of course one shouldn't actually whine in such a situation, that's... undignified. But I have to disagree about the possibility of this behavior damaging a relationship.

Fantasies aside, vast majority of husbands are not real slaves, not even in kinky couples. Their feelings and desires do matter. One can't *make* a husband obey, even this kind of play is a form of *convincing* him to obey. And a not insignificant fraction of the chaste male population are men who do desire some level of physical intimacy even when locked, and who do suffer if they feel undesirable.

It is easy to misjudge the point where a husband will stop considering the wife's behavior a part of chastity play, and will see it as a proof of her no longer finding him desirable. In fact it is quite likely there'll be no single point where the balance tilts from play into feeling no longer loved, instead the husband will feel growing doubts about his wife's love and desire for him.

And with that in mind, I do think a long-term play of this sort is kind of risky.