A recurring theme here at CM is the man wanting to start a chaste relationship with the woman he loves and finding it a very hard sell. Last night in an E-Mail feed I get there was an interesting philosophical quote that might shed some light on this situation. It might help explain why a man would want to give up his orgasms just to be a better partner and why his wife or girl friend would be reluctant. I doubt the author was thinking about chastity but it still has some relevance. So here it is. "When a man truly loves a woman he will willingly give up anything for her. If she truly loves him in return, she will never ask."
Great quote and agree that really sums up the general dynamic that I think most (not all) are experiencing and looking for. It took us a bit to get there early on and we’ve been on/off at different times over the last 9 years or so. Communication in ANY relationship is the key to success and once we got that dialed in things became that much easier…all aspects of our marriage, chastity being one of them. We’ve recently (late last year) decided to add this back to our life, and she’s extremely engaged and happy, and that makes me very happy. We’ve discussed how this is part of our life and marriage now at length, and her take on it is she wants this to “stick” this time and have me constantly locked up other than when she wants to take it out/play etc (save for cleaning/shaving, dr visits or travel). While it’s “scary” in some respects as it was never embraced as a “permanent” aspect of our life before, it’s also thrilling to know that SHE wants it this way this time and as the quote says, because our love for each other is so strong, I’d do anything/give up anything to make her happy.
I would take the quote just a bit further by asking a question: If a woman TRULY loved her man, would she deny him intercourse so that HIS love for her would remain pure and full of desire for her?
It's a no true scottsman argument. There's lots I wouldn't do, doesn't mean I don't truly love my woman.
I am not familiar with that. Can you direct me to what that means please? "There's no true Scottsman"? Thanks for a link or an explanation.
Hi, it is a nice quote, but I do not think that it reflects the situation of the hard sell to her. The act of wanting to give up his orgasms, is an 'ask', not a 'give'. The man is 'asking' his other to participate in what he wants. She does not 'ask' for him to give up his orgasms. Most of the time the real reason why it is a hard sell to her, it is the lack of interest, laziness because finds it a chore, feeling it weird to be asked to participate, or even worse, thinks that he is a weirdo. Sorry for the reality check, but i do not think she loves him deep enough for this type of relationship. Its tough for him in this kinda relationship, and he would not even ask her if he loves her enough.
Thank you Jay. Two points if I may: 1. I agree with you, my post is essentially the "no true Scotsman" argument. You are well and good for pointing that out. 2. I did a poor job articulating my point, which would have made more logical sense. However, it still has elements of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. So, yes, if I riddled my point with all sorts of qualifying premises, I could tighten it up. But by that point, it reduces the question to one of fantasy rather than day-to-day chastity application. I appreciate it when our ideas are challenged so that they may have more rigor. I am much obliged! Good on ya!
I read Hubby’s post when he first started this thread but haven’t followed it since until tonight. I feel I have to respond to this comment and my response will also apply a little to other comments here. This is the viewpoint of a woman, albeit a slightly messed up woman when it comes to sex. If a woman truly loves her man, she probably believes that sex and orgasms are very important to him and something he wants badly. It will be hard for her to embrace keeping him in chastity and denying him. It is not until she is able to understand that making her feel loved and appreciated in every way is more important to him than his orgasm. Once she realizes this and understands then she can begin to embrace chastity. She can begin to acknowledge how much he loves her. She can begin to understand that letting her have complete control is what he needs to feel fulfilled. When I finally defeated my demons and was able to have sex and not hate myself afterwards I thought our first weekend would be one big sex orgy. It wasn’t. The joy of pure intimacy we had experienced last summer controlled both of our libidos. We had amazing sex one time and the rest of the weekend was about what you refer to as a purer form of love. For some couples, the man may feel that any orgasm on his part cheapens his love or he feels inadequate to please his woman sexually and he may encourage her to deny him totally and find her sexual satisfaction with another and only her intimacy satisfaction with him. I guess that is okay for some couples. For Hubby and me that is not the case. We make sexual love when I want that complete experience that includes a shared orgasm. It is something very special. Most of the time, however, I just need and want to feel loved and know that I am what makes his world go around. It works for us because when we are intimate without sex he feels exactly the same. He knows how much I love him when we press our bodies together and just kiss and touch each other. He is satisfied with having an orgasm once a week or sometimes less. The orgasms do not take away from the purity of our love making. They add another element to it. It is never the end of a love making session but rather an exciting moment in the middle. We go back to cuddling and kissing and talking and sometimes now I will have him give me an oral orgasm and the kiss that follows is indescribable. For the next couple of months we are having sex like rabbits to meet his orgasm requirement for making the vasectomy complete. In this situation, we are both feeling like it does cheapen the love experience. The orgasms are not because I want to make that special love to him. It is more like a duty. Sex with orgasms needs to be kept as something special in order to be special. What is right for us may be too often or too seldom for others. Every couple needs to find the sweet spot for them. As long as it is about a mutual love it will be good for both,
I absolutely LOVE discussions about the philosophy of denial. Orgasm denial, erection denial, intercourse denial, vaginal denial. Learning the "why" is perhaps even more interesting to me than the "how" or "when".