Opinion: Slavery

I equate nothing as you rightly point out. You however dismiss all D/s relationships as mere roleplay with no penalties involved for not staying in your role. You are in some cases flat out wrong! D/s is a social contract like marriage. If you fail to live up to your marriage contract (in some marriages infinitely is the trip line), you may find yourself divorced. In some D/s relationships if you fail to obey you may find yourself divorced and in a financially difficult situation. The fact that you relationship may have no “real world” penalties is fine, but not universal. I make no equivalency to the “…horrors and cruelty of actual slavery”. So in addition to the personal attack you falsely represent my argument. So continue with your roleplay confident that all others are playing the same game, “…end of story”.

 

some men wants to be slaves but they not really really slaves cos after they just go home.

 

Some of us live with the women to whom we are enslaved!

 

I prefer servant.....it can be very submissive but is not equivocal to actual slavery. You wouldn't be hunted down by large groups or be arrested if you left.

 

Servant is good, though sexual relations with servants, though common, were generally not formally part of the remit or considered morally OK by wider society.

 

Sadly 'indentured servant' is too specific and not a good fit either.

Maybe 'apprentice slave' might be a slang term, it's a slave but that may or may not take it on as a career lmao

 

I think for us Europeans, "slave" has a long pedigree as a romantic metaphor, harking back to Roman times, and it also describes the moment to moment dynamic quite accurately, even though the evil coercive legal context is lacking.

 

Regardless of how strict the security or severe the consequences, if you enjoy it (or its benefits) is it slavery?

 

Of course it's not. It's just a handy - dramatic! - term to describe a state of mind during intense moments, and the general workings of particular dynamic.

To me, a power exchange "slave" dynamic is roughly defined by "if an alien observer were watching, it would assume a servile relationship akin to what you might find in Ancient Rome between a mistress and intimate domestic slave":

• Slave is obedient by default (though not always a mute automaton).
• Relationship is centred on the notional owner. (Owner can be nurturing, romantic and intimate, but from a position of power.)
  
• Slave performs real actual service to the owner without fuss, and accepts boredom and discomfort.
  
• Baseline kinky activity is framed as protocol and discipline rather than play.
• Slave has internalised the power exchange and is unlikely to withdraw consent.
• Owner - because she is getting what she wants! - is very happy with the power exchange, and is unlikely to want to dissolve it. This creates a structural coercion.

Everybody gets excited about that last point. I don't think that makes us actual slaves in the historical sense, but it is part of the dynamic.

Other terms that might do include "surrendered husband", but you have to be married for that!

 

I think the transition point is where our dominants clearly prefer things this way, and say as much.

 

The thing is - and I mean this seriously, not in a "careful what you wish for (fap fap)" way - if you are doing "slavery" right, and she's at all receptive to it, then she's going to experience it as an improvement and going back will be hard once you've established this is doable long term. (There's this thing called the Lindy Effect, I wrote up the D/s ramifications here, if you are interested.)

 

My Wife and I have discussed many times the hypothetical of if one of us might want to 'revert' back to a normal relationship. I for one, have really no interest in it, as I live the life of an exquisitely 'kept man' and I'd be a dumbass to want more independence. All it would mean is work and responsibility for me, and I'm at the age where I'm comfortable letting someone I trust run things.

However, my Wife craves control and for Her two things are absolutely non-negotiable for her these days: my life in her chastity cage and her decision making ability. She will not cede her power within the household to me, although she would perhaps endure a co-equal relationship if I insisted. Chastity, though... she simply will not entertain my having free control of my sex, end of story. That belongs to her and she will not give it up ever. Me refusing to stay in chastity and allow her to control my orgasms would lead to a major blow-up of our relationship.

 

yes but you are allow outside and not put in chains and smacked a lot. and proper slaves was like that and maked to work hard all the days. and as well they dint like it and all the slaves i seen all do like being them.

 

Totally. See upthread: Opinion: Slavery

 

I've been thinking about this question a lot. I've felt a lot of frustration with my wife, especially lately. We went on a vacation last summer and I wanted to do this one thing on the trip that I had dreamed of doing forever. She promised we could do it on the second-to-last day, but then she had been drinking the night before and ended up sleeping in very late that day, which meant we had to miss it. We still had one more opportunity the next day, but she said no because she had other stuff she wanted to do.

I was sort of pouting in the days that followed which of course she picked up on. She challenged me with one of her "What's your purpose in life?" devotional questions, to which I always answer "to serve you" and that usually humbles me and fixes any obstinance on my part. Then she usually makes me pleasure her, and that excitement also helps mend my negative feelings. But this time....I just was so frustrated that I (pretty mildly) argued with her about what had happened. I think it's the first time I ever talked to her like that. I expected some sympathy, I don't know why, just a little something on her part for all the years of servitude and suffering that would acknowledge that my feelings are at least a little important, and that maybe she was actually wrong just this once. Instead she read me the riot act. Her first point, which she stressed very heavily, was that all the money used for that trip was hers, and all the money for the whole house is hers, so I'm entitled to nothing. She owns all the cars, the house, etc. She said she could and would divorce me at any time, that I'm nothing without her, and that my life could be completely ruined if she just felt like it. Her wrath in that moment made me relent immediately and I apologized profusely. Honestly, the threat that she could divorce me and leave me for another guy was the scariest of all those threats. She forgave me but she also punished me. The heat in the car I use had been broken since the end of last winter, and she said that as a punishment I was going to have to go the whole next winter without it being fixed. This isn't quite as extreme as it sounds as we live in a much warmer climate, but still, it can get down to 35-40 degrees farenheit at night. It's been painful.

The thing is, I've never really been into BDSM roleplay or anything. I just love my wife. I really love her and want to make her happy, and that's always been my motivation. My mom raised me to have great respect and admiration for women, and I just ended up being kind of a meek person I guess, so it never occurred to me that it could be bad to give my wife control over my life, it just seemed natural. But these last months it just kind of hit me after that incident on vacation, and since then when I'm freezing my ass off while running errands for her and having her laugh at me every time I come in the house, and all the sexual frustration building up, it just hit me that despite my unhappiness, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still here, and I'm gonna stay here. It's just like she said, she has all the money, everything's in her name, even my job was given to me by one of her family members. She's got so much dirt on me, she's seen as "the boss" by literally everyone that knows us, and none of them respect me as a person. It's like my whole financial and social life revolves round her. Did I consent to that? Yes, as an accumulation of small changes in my autonomy, I did consent to it. But can I really consent to continuing this lifestyle now that I'm in this position? I honestly don't know. The one thing I can say with certainty, is that this isn't roleplaying for me. My role as a submissive is truly my life.

That being said, I'm just airing my frustrations. I'm not saying my feelings are valid. I love my wife more than anything, and due to that love, and all the control she has over me, I will continue to serve her forever, and I will do it happily.

 

all slaves from the very beginning of time could vote with their feet. yes, if caught they could suffer severe punishment. if they did escape putting a life together after a long period of slavery could prove extremely difficult if not impossible. even then for most life was only a little better. during the last decades of usa slavery of the 3.9 million slaves only about 1000 achieved freedom each year.
for those in a cnc relationship the challenges can be as daunting as they were for slaves of old.
our puck who we define as a subordinate(not submissive or a slave) can not see a path that would return her to her previous life or even a better life than now. concepts we encourage and reinforce.
i suspect this is the mindset of those who feel they are real slaves and not just role playing. there is just no viable way to exit their current situation. much like james88 described.
for those who see it as only role playing maintain they actively make the choice to continue and believe to stop is a relatively easy option always available to them and any other so called slaves. this person retains most of the power in their relationship and the other serves by role playing the dominant. unlike james88's wife who knows without doubt that she has most if not all the power in her relationship .

 

I think this adds a second parameter.

So we have:

• How much instrumental authority does the dominant wield?
• How difficult would it be to withdraw consent?

@James88

 

So do we have an index with two parameters, with actual classical Roman slavery rating 100 on each.

• How much instrumental authority does the dominant wield?
• How difficult is it for the submissive to withdraw consent?

@James88 sounds like he'd rate 90/90.

I think I'm more 80/80.


(Of course, there's a 3rd parameter: "How easy is it for the dominant to rent out or sell on the submissive?" But I don't think anybody is going there!)

 

considering the 3 servile wars and not knowing how many walked away from their owners i would rate rome 100/95.
the term submissive can be defined as "inclined or ready to submit; acknowledging one's inferiority; yielding; obedient; humble." which implies that the person accepts that they are where they belong. in slavery or at minimum a servant ! a rating of 80 to 100. so before one can leave they would require or desire a better self image. on the other hand an enslaved person who is not submissive by nature but force or coerced to submit are more likely to have a better self image. a subordinate that begins with a rating of 70 or less.
nowadays instrumental authority has much to do about the construct of the box the subordinate or submissive is placed. for james88 his wife covered most aspects of his life and he still loves her . maybe a little stockholm syndrome to boot? your 90% assessment is probably accurate since he still perceive a choice though minuscule at best.
for our puck we went the extra mile with hormones, hypnosis, electrolysis, brands and piercings along with clothes, a female drivers license and a mrs. when signing her name. aspects of a polyamorous relationship makes noncompliance or leaving all the more difficult if not impossible yet we acknowledge it's not a 100% lock on authority. being out numbered more than 3 to1 by children and worse when 2 ma'ats are in town overnight(work) our dependence on puck breastfeeding, teaching and parenting demonstrate to puck her value as an almost equal to her ma'ats and ensures we respect her as a subordinate and not a slave. in fairness, it is our belief a puck is sexual property and if not sexual in nature all tasks can be discussed and even refused though rarely are it is truly a team effort. having a community of other ma'ats and pucks allows a puck and us to feel this is a normal way of life which adds to our instrumental authority. still not equal to the romans .
your mention of renting or selling( not a consideration for us) probably should be two separate parameters.
i can see the constructs of ownership maintained during a rental where they probably would not transfer well with ownership.

 

OK, there's a nuance on the withdrawing consent, because even in Ancient Rome, a slave can run away, or act stupid, or - if an intimate slave - withdraw enthusiasm and rapport. There's also a big step up from losing your marriage (modern slavery) to the prospect of being a fugitive with only the arena to look forward to if you are caught.

Any ideas?