Opinion: Slavery

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by Marcus_Fappington, Apr 3, 2023.

Random Thread
  1. Marcus_Fappington
    Offline

    Marcus_Fappington Mid-Life Crisis Haver

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2023
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    American lost in Europe somewhere
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    Yes, the S word. People don't like this word these days. Even in computing you have advocates for doing away with Master-Slave jargon in favor of Primary-Secondary and the like. But the reality is, this femdom male chastity FLR life style DOES create a Master/Mistress-Slave dynamic.

    The Mistress issues orders, gives daily tasks, weekly tasks. Her will takes precedence over her submissive's will. And there is physical enforcement thru denial of pleasure, possibly inflicting pain. punishment & threat of punishment. And like Slaves throughout history, many men engaging in this life style are wearing some form of reminder of their subordinate position. Obviously cock cages/male chastity devices, but also in some cases collars, or women's clothing, or butt plugs, or whatever. The list goes on. Primarily these devices serve to psychologically remind the SLAVE at all times that he is a SLAVE. His will is not his own. Maybe he wants to watch TV but his mistress has given him a list of tasks that require completion first. Her will is of primary importance, not his. What is this if not slavery?

    Call it what you want but this psychological dynamic in the relationship between Keyholder and Submissive is fundamentally a Master-Slave dynamic.
     
  2. WillieBDenied
    Offline

    WillieBDenied All men should be locked

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Software
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    San Diego, CA
    Local Time:
    6:01 AM
    Consensual slavery (which all of this is) is not slavery. It's role playing.
     
  3. JaySaysYes
    Offline

    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    5,123
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Female
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    +1
     
  4. SubSnuggler
    Offline

    SubSnuggler Owned by Mistress2and4you

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    USA
    Local Time:
    8:01 AM
    At some point in many relationships, it becomes less role play and more real as there begins to be actual penalties for ending the role play. I think it's somewhere less than consensual but far short than actual 'slavery'. It's interesting to think about and it seems like the English language at least needs a new word to describe it. I don't think we have one.

    I've heard rumors for years that in Europe there is an actual discreet market in trading lifelong submissives. Maybe not selling slaves but definitely selling people with a unique mindset about their place in life.
     
  5. JaySaysYes
    Offline

    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    5,123
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Female
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    D/s seems to work for most people into such relationships.
     
  6. SubSnuggler
    Offline

    SubSnuggler Owned by Mistress2and4you

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    USA
    Local Time:
    8:01 AM
    D/s is a wide ranging genre that covers a range of vanilla and BDSM relationships as well as one time interactions & scenes. The term is simply not specific enough to call out the relationship dynamic style we are discussing.
     
  7. Lazlo Toth
    Offline

    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    4,709
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Upstate South Carolina
    Local Time:
    6:01 AM
    Great point Marcus.

    And to your point Wille B., I can understand. But to a certain extent we are always talking about degree. Even a real slave in chains could always choose to kill himself instead of slavery.
     
  8. Queens servant73
    Offline

    Queens servant73 Long term member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Midwest
    Local Time:
    8:01 AM
    I believe you’re correct Marcus. But everyone is a slave to multiple things whether it’s a govt, a God, a job, the almighty $$, an addiction, etc, etc…
    and true freedom is all in your head.

    That being said, choosing to give up my sexual freedom to my Wife has been a fun ride so far and now four years into this, as someone else mentioned already, I do believe there could be some consequences if I tried to back out now. No way it ends our 32 year marriage, but I know she wouldn’t be happy and truly fulfilled going back to our “normal” basic mild kink sex with me being free. So I’ve slowly given in to realization that my future includes a cock cage unless she becomes bored of it. At least it does become an addiction for me as well
     
    Susanstoy91 likes this.
  9. WillieBDenied
    Offline

    WillieBDenied All men should be locked

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Software
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    San Diego, CA
    Local Time:
    6:01 AM
    What penalties? Sheesh. It's still roleplay. The moment it stops being roleplay it becomes criminal behavior.

    Now if you want to talk about actual human trafficking and the like, that's fine, but that's a totally different thing than the original post is suggesting. I am sure there are instances of the actual thing happening out there somewhere, but again, that's criminal activity.
     
    JaySaysYes likes this.
  10. Marcus_Fappington
    Offline

    Marcus_Fappington Mid-Life Crisis Haver

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2023
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    American lost in Europe somewhere
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    I've definitely seen it recommended in femdom books to take compromising pictures of the submissive man for blackmail purposes. Maybe that's just an empty threat, part of the game....maybe it isn't. Imagine some policeman and his wife has pictures of him in pink panties wearing a cock cage and nipple clamps etc. It's a legitimate threat. Let's not pretend some of the recommendations in blogs, books, and on this forum don't cross over the line from play into actual threats and blackmail.
     
    Comstock likes this.
  11. Locked_Up_Tight
    Offline

    Locked_Up_Tight Active member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Indianapolis
    Local Time:
    9:01 AM
    This language kind of leans heavily on pet play, so it's not perfect, but I think the terms owner/pet come close to working as an alternative

    After all, you wouldn't consider your dog or cat a slave right? But they're still dependent on you as their owner to get what they need. In a weird way, there's kind of a similar dynamic between a caged male and his keyholder; just in a way that revolves around sex
     
    Jay Sub likes this.
  12. JaySaysYes
    Offline

    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    5,123
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Female
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    Blackmail can carry a harsh sentence (max 14 years prison in the UK).

    Revenge porn too, at least in the UK.

    I know people do silly things but we're straying deep into fantasy territory now such that we may as well skip to the part where someone is chained naked in a tidal cave with only damp crackers and the cum of the new zealand rugby team to eat.
     
  13. Caged for life
    Offline

    Caged for life Long term member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2022
    Messages:
    1,988
    Likes Received:
    1,403
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sheetmetal mechanic
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    USA
    Local Time:
    9:01 AM
    While I am no slave I have pledged my chastity to my wife, I only orgasm when she wants me to
     
  14. Giles_English
    Offline

    Giles_English Chaste slave

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    UK
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    I think in an established relationship, there are structural penalties for withdrawing consent - in the same way nobody is forcing you to stay married, but there are massive downsides to leaving your spouse.

    In terms of power exchange, I think Slave is a useful term to point to an arrangement where one partner has authority and the other acts accordingly without resistance.

    For me, "Slave" references classical or Roman slavery, which though oppressive, was generally equal-opportunity oppressive. If a better, equally precise term turns up in the BDSM discourse, I will cheerfully adopt it in discussions. However, I shall always be my wife's slave.
     
    Jay Sub and SubSnuggler like this.
  15. Guy Masterleigh Bt
    Offline

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2021
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    writer
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Ourém
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    There is one in Europe, and one in the USA too, probably most countries of the world, and it is international.

    My contact with it has been mostly tangential, hearing from people who've been there, mostly where a consensual role-play evolved deeply into non-consensual and real slavery, and then somehow won free.

    Or I recall a tale from Jeff, of House of Gord before he died. He was in UK SpecialForces and sent to break into a container storage depot in the Far East, to intercept a container of ammunition en-route to The Queen's enemies, and plant charges to destroy it. Only to find the one they'd been sent to find contained 23 naked ladies, with food, water and buckets for sanitary purposes. Whom they released and withdrew back the way they'd broken in, I wonder what happened to them?
     
    Comstock and SubSnuggler like this.
  16. SubSnuggler
    Offline

    SubSnuggler Owned by Mistress2and4you

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    USA
    Local Time:
    8:01 AM
    I'd love to know more about the shadowy world of 'submissives for sale' but when it crosses the line to full on human trafficking thats a step too far for all of us.
     
  17. Guy Masterleigh Bt
    Offline

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2021
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    writer
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Ourém
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    It exists. I know very little about it. I keep my distance from anyone I suspect may be involved in that.

    However, I do recall a multi-way conversation I had with several women in a Dominatrice's dungeon in Kings Cross, London. It was at a time there was a big 'thing' in the media about human trafficking. They were smart, mostly university graduates, often with a better grasp of international politics than mine, which is unusual in vanilla company.

    (I was invited there, after arranging a pony-play session for one of the hostess's clients, so a colleague, not a customer!)

    Most of the women present were self-employed professionals, either Dominas, or straight sex-workers, from all over the world. Iran, Russia, most countries in Eastern Europe. For most, the deal was that they paid their way for travel costs and being smuggled in on fake papers, or whatever, by promising to do two years' in-house sex work at their sponsor's brothel. They knew exactly what they were getting into, and regarded it as a straightforward business deal, worth doing for the economic advantages.

    However, had their brothel been raided in those two years, they said that of course they'd have claimed to have been trafficked against their will. To do otherwise would have led to summary deportation.

    Which suggests to me that the brouhaha about human trafficking probably grossly exaggerates the numbers involved. That is certainly the opinion of the English Collective of Prostitutes when they were organising to try to stop 'The Swedish Model' of prostitution laws being adopted in the UK. (The New Zealand Model is far preferable!)
     
    Comstock likes this.
  18. Locked_Up_Tight
    Offline

    Locked_Up_Tight Active member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Indianapolis
    Local Time:
    9:01 AM
    What about trainer/trainee?

    That's kind of the whole point of the chastity lifestyle right? To let your partner take the lead as they mold you into the best version of yourself? Or at least, I think that's what it ought to look like if it's healthy anyway. Maybe it wouldn't apply in all circumstances, but it's very precise and usually accurate. And it doesn't come with all the uncomfortable baggage that a term like "slave" would
     
  19. enslavedbyc
    Online

    enslavedbyc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    692
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Local Time:
    7:01 AM
    You appear to lack imagination and fail to recognize the serious drive some people have to simulate slavery. It is completely legal (in the U.S.) to quit claim your house and many other possessions to your spouse. If you do that (and we’re not coerced at the time you executed it), you have ZERO right to recovery for any reason in the future. If you set up an irrevocable trust and name your spouse as trustee, then you have no money. I could go on …and on, but you should be able to figure it out from here. Yes, there are couples who set up serious penalties for ending there D/s relationship and they’re not breaking any laws. Are they “truly” slaves. No. Is there a huge incentive to accept their situation. Yes. Will you ever understand why a couple would go that far? I’m going to take a guess. No.
     
    Comstock likes this.
  20. Giles_English
    Offline

    Giles_English Chaste slave

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    UK
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    It's about obedience, not training, though. And there's this other thing that power exchange does reference the dark. So I would rather have terms that had some resonance.
     
  21. Giles_English
    Offline

    Giles_English Chaste slave

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    UK
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    It's a big world, some of this is bound to be going on.
     
  22. Locked_Up_Tight
    Offline

    Locked_Up_Tight Active member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Indianapolis
    Local Time:
    9:01 AM
    #22 Locked_Up_Tight, Apr 4, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2023
    That's the thing though

    Why does it have to revolve around unconditional obedience? I'm single right now, but when I eventually do find a partner, I wouldn't want that to be the dynamic personally. From my understanding, a good, healthy relationship is a mutual give and take where both partners build each other up and encourage each other to do what makes their lives fulfilling. That's not a power imbalance, It's a level playing field

    And I think it is possible to use chastity in that context. Currently, as a self-locked man, I'm mostly using it as form of nofap. I'm trying to pursue projects that matter to me and get the most out of life that I can, but in the past, I've had a habit of jerking off to porn way too much and ending up burnt out with no energy. The cage helps to prevent that and keep me focused.

    So when I eventually find a keyholder of my own, her job would just be to keep my accountable. To make sure I stay focused on those bigger picture goals when I need to. And it would also improve our love life since I'd be relying entirely on her for sexual satisfaction (which hopefully she'd be reasonable about; not forcing me to get so pent up that sex is all I can think about, but being a good judge about when and how it should happen to not only keep it enjoyable and meaningful, but also avoid the dreaded burnout. I like to think she would also try to discourage porn usage too, but only because that's too much of a distraction from more important stuff so it would still ultimately be for my own good)

    And in that context, it really would be a trainer/trainee situation. The main focus would be on her helping me to become the best version of myself by our mutual agreed upon definition. That's not some heavy handed top-down approach where she just bosses me around and I have to blindly follow her every random whim. It's a healthier dynamic where we're both encouraging each other to stronger, more capable, more responsible adults (me because I'd be managing my time and energy for her sake, her because she'd be in a leadership position.
     
  23. Locked_Up_Tight
    Offline

    Locked_Up_Tight Active member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Male
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    Indianapolis
    Local Time:
    9:01 AM
    #23 Locked_Up_Tight, Apr 4, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2023
    Whoops, accidentally just quoted myself and can't delete this comment. Lol
     
  24. Giles_English
    Offline

    Giles_English Chaste slave

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    1,902
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    UK
    Home Page:
    Local Time:
    2:01 PM
    It doesn't have to be, which is why we need the concept "slave" as well as the concept "submissive" and so on.

    Also, a good slave isn't a mute robot in all circumstances. But that's a different discussion.
     
  25. WillieBDenied
    Offline

    WillieBDenied All men should be locked

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Software
    Location: (Country, Region - and perhaps even City?):
    San Diego, CA
    Local Time:
    6:01 AM
    And you are completely ignorant and naive to equate this to the horrors and cruelty of actual slavery.

    You said it yourself above - they are "not truly slaves" - so stop this nonsense already. Yes, people do stupid things all the time. They are still not slaves. end of story.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice