Chastity cages and Christianity

The problem is deeper than either of you understand.

Christianity has been divided into so many sects that quantifying an absolute is almost impossible.

Chastity, in it's most innocent form, would be almost universally accepted in a prayer group discussion. Being enforced with a device would be considered, by many (in this context), as a private matter that was between the two involved, but not condemned.

The more fundamental sects ( how I was raised) would probably consider it a taboo and call it a sin. Condemnation by the group would follow.

To be fair, I wouldn’t discuss my last sexual experience with my Wife at a prayer group either. (Unless I was requesting prayer for some reason, and it was relevant)

Personally, I believe that the marriage bed is undefiled. Any way we wish to please each other is acceptable. I can back that up with scripture, but someone would just make this an argument if I did.

At the end of the day, Christianity is this....

The person who (just an example) kidnapped your child, tortured them, molested them and then left them for dead in a ditch by the road is just as worthy of forgiveness as you are worthy of forgiveness for hating them for what they did to your precious child. (Sorry for the extremely dark example)

Christians ( myself included) tend to feel like we have the exclusive rights to the truth. So do historians, BLM, CRT, Kinksters, politicians, scientists, physicist, holistic practioners, the happily homeless, on and on, ad nauseum.

The truth is that we don't know what we don't know. So, the abstract truths that we hold and hope for, while not meaningless in the present, shouldn't dictate how we treat others.

If we all held that as our core belief, then we would all be the example of the Christian core principles. The modern parlance of the Golden Rule would be;

1: Acknowledge that there is something bigger and more important than yourself and how you feel.
2: Treat everyone as you would want them to treat you, if you were in their shoes.

Sorry for the esoteric response.

 

It is understood in the church that we are imperfect beings and that we sin on a regular basis. All I would have to say to the really pious ones is that my wife and I prayed about it and this is where we were led. Easy enough.
I have thought about telling the mens group that I workout with, but my wife would not allow it. She is very vanilla and barely approved of it. She does like how it makes me give her attention how I get when she teases me. Going on three weeks now.

 

I do hope that none of you (Christians) feel guilty about wearing a device, and living the lifestyle any way you choose.

Maybe my question/curiosity comes from my own treatment, chastisement from the church youth club when I was about 15. A few of us were smoking a little weed at camp. I was grassed up as the ring leader and some parents got upset.

Funny thing was, the girl that did it actually had a bit of thing for me. I found out a few years later from her father, who also had a bit of a thing for me. Lol. Not that he got anywhere, as I'm straight.

I don't blame anyone, and my reason for not being a Christian anymore has nothing to do with that incident, but it did leave me with the impression of intolerance to things that don't fit the Christian narrative. Even today, the local Christians exclude us, a very clicky group. I've raised this with their Minister, who agreed some could do with a shake up. He invited me to dinner with others once , but I didn't want to be that guy. I would tear their arguments apart, and much as they think they want the challenge, when they meet it head on, people get really uncomfortable and try to back out of what they started. It can make it awkward in a small village.

 

It is almost as impossible to know a Christian and believe that you understand Christians as it is to know one European (You can insert any nationality or geographic region here) and believe you understand Europeans. There are simply too many sects, sub sets, microcosm and individuals involved to get a consensus.

It would be just as impossible, and probably morally wrong, for one (or a few) to speak for the whole group.

That is a weakness of any human association. Also ,it is part of the beauty of those associations.

Even in a group as small as an individual family, there is (most likely) never a consensus on every topic. My Wife and I don't agree on every single thing in life. What makes our love beautiful is that we can either compromise or agree that we disagree, lock our fingers together tightly and carry on with our journey with love.

That should be the case with Christianity as well. Sadly, with many, it isn't. To many, someone must always "win". That tends to breed anger and anger tends to breed so many ugly things.

Sadly, there are no "one size fits all" answer to this question.

 

It can be such an immotive subject for some people. There is a lot of emotion wrapped up in faith, which is a fragile thing it would seem.

 

Wow. They have a lot to say about sex. Much more than anything else.

 

Faith is fragile. But, what is life without Faith? We stack cash away for a rainy day, but it has no intrinsic value. It is backed by Faith. We believe in science that changes daily. We believe in our children even when they fail. We believe in our favorite sports teams when they lose. We believe in our Keyholders, even we are left lost in the shuffle of everything that happens in the course of the average day and feel unimportant to them.

In those times we can feel as though our sacrifice is not worth it! We often start to lose immediate hope. What keeps us going? Faith.

Of all the fallible things that we (so readily) trust in, I believe that Faith is the superior choice. My chosen faith is Christianity.

Why? Because I can always get behind the concept of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "Whatsoever a person soweth, that shall they also reap" and "Greater love has no man than this, that he would lay down his own life for his friend"

I choose Faith, simply because these principles are at the core of my faith.

I don't believe in any particular church or denomination. I have faith in the teachings of Christ, though.

We can have any discussion about why that doesn't make sense that you would like to have. But, in order for you to refute my faith, you would have to refute the teachings of the (actual historical) figure that first codified the concept of being kind as a way of life and sacrifice of self to the betterment of others.

I have read enough of your post to believe that you would never lose faith in those concepts.

And, I think that Faith (in either of us) is fragile.

 

I meant that I don't think that Faith is fragile.

 

Do you mean Buddha?

Or the vedics?

Perhaps you mean the Bön?

 

Please christians, I and many others find your religion abhorrent, the actions of it's 'believers' often evil.

I am entirely uninterested in your views 'as christians'.

I am thoroughly disgusted by the efforts of many christians to force unbelievers to comply with their bigotry.

Please confine expressing your opinions 'as christians' to within your own echo chambers.

I find your preaching offensive. I see the behaviour of most christians to be hypocritical.

I feel sure that Jesus would never accept that any sect I've come across truly follows his ways.

(If he actually existed, and had the views you ascribe to him.)

I mean no personal offence.

But I will not preach the virtues of my personal philosophy here.

Please do the same.

 

Whilst I share much of your point of view, the subject matter was clear from the title. Disagree...yes, but shutting down the debate is not the way forward. Most Christians abhore the evil done in their name too, and are good people, just like us atheists.

 

Having said that the link to your church @RobySul was a bit much in a chastity forum, with a note saying basically "don't want to talk about it"

 

It is the 'presumption of virtue', implicit in posts from 'heart-on-the-sleeve' christians, that raises hackles.

I have worked with a lot of good people, come to respect them and then found they are Quakers.

Who are nominally christian, though most christians would probably not agree.

I don't want to pick out particular posts, because that would make it personal, and it isn't.

I hope I am a good person, I try to be by my own code of ethics and morality.

But I'd never presume that I am, or claim to be one. That is for others to judge.

I'd never claim I'm a better person, 'as I am an' an atheist, liberal, democrat, socialist, anarchist, whatever.

One is my innate character, and the way I live my life, the other is the philosophy I espouse at the moment.

Neither would I seek to define whether others' atheism, liberalism, democracy, socialism, anarchism is correct or not, that's their business.

Or because of my personal philosophy tell people how to live their lives.

I just notice that all organised christian sects I know of, seem to align themselves with the far right, fascism.

Where, if I understand their avowed philosophy, they'd actually be on the far left, socialism.

It doesn't seem a morally consistent basis on which to preach to others.

Best they get their own house in order first!

 

They can't all be held responsible for the action of others. That is prejudice. And, ironically the basis of the Abrahamic religions. Be angry at the philosophy not the person struggling through life, trying to find answers to the big questions. Years of indoctrination takes it's toll and closes the mind to new ideas. It is hard for people to give up their community and sense of place. Their comfort blanket.

Consider also the evolutionary path that religion has taken from ancient times through to today and the need that it filled in our history.

I get the anger, but the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction. Bringing politics into the discussion here never ends well.

 

No offense but your posts seem to be very judgy. I also disagree with your fascist comment. If you look at the world today, the fascists seem to be on the left. They act like fascists while they accuse others of being fascists. I personally think your actions hold more weight than silly accusations.

 

Then why reply with obvious unwanted input. If the subject matter were cuckold or homosexual, sissy; and it was of no interest to you or otherwise "not your cup of tea" would you rant?
Very hypocritical of one who wishes not to be judged while being extremely judgmental!

 

Yes, you meant personal offense.

You are, in fact, preaching the virtues of your personal philosophy, with prejudice.

Also, this is a Christian thread, so the onus is on you to move along.

Thanks for playing.

 

I agree with your first two paragraphs. But then asking him to move on isn't right either. I'm an interested atheist. I call for understanding and tolerance on both sides, and have a right to voice an opinion. You may say that I should move along. I won't.

 

If you come to a Christian thread and say Christians should keep their opinions to themselves, then yes, you should move on.

If you're an interested atheist, by all means, have at it.

 

Sir, you just did! (ie: I and many others find your beliefs abhorrent)
So, stop with your phony signaling of virtue.

It gets tiresome, the haughtiness of people who "don't want to offend" yet viciously offend, who try and tear down the solemnly held beliefs of one in order to gain some moral superiority.

Has Christianity been bastardized? Absolutely!

You are talking about sects.

People with your vehemence and bile are the same mindset that created the social environments that allowed the Christian crusades to become a reality, as well as the holocaust, Pol Pot's massacres, the atrocities of the Soviet and French revolutions and Mao Tse Tung to be able to wipe out over a billion lives in the past several centuries.

All of those were caused by the mindset that you espoused, "This group is abhorrent".

Stop fomenting hate, asshole.

If you want to debate merit, let's go.

If you want to create hate, I'll try my absolute best to get you banned from this site

 

While all of those clerics you espouse have an altered aspect of the teachings of Christ in their message and themes, none of them were ever reported to give up their own mortality for the "sins" of their followers.

While I respect most of the teachings of those thinkers (and wish that more of humanity could approach their mindset) Christ predates them. Christ changed the philosophy of the world in a radical way before these came along and expounded upon it in their own way.

I could be wrong, but the historical evidence suggests that Christ was the first to bring the teachings of being a good person, first and foremost, as a way of life (rather than being a good person for fear of retribution) to the mainstream.

He did that with a message of forgiveness. Then he laid down his life to seal that message in his own blood.

Was he a deity? I believe so. But, I also believed that Jimmy Carter would be a good president. ( in my defense, I was 9)
Time will tell.

At the end of the day, we all have beliefs that don't make sense to a lot of people. My Wife always cuts the end off of a ham before we cook it. I asked Her several years ago why she does that and Her answer was because that's the way to cook a ham. She said Her mother taught Her that. I asked my mother in law about it over this past Christmas. She said " oh, well, I like the look of a big ham but we had a small kitchen and I never bought a roaster big enough to hold the size ham I like to buy. It would take up too much room for the once or twice a year it's used".

My Queen will go to the grave believing that is the way to cook a ham. I will gladly give a wonderful treat to the dog on Christmas. And, I will tell my step daughter and son why they don't need to waste that ham.

My point is this. Tearing down a belief just to do it is wrong, unless that belief harms others. If that belief harms no one and brings joy to the believer, leave it alone. Hold it as sacred.

Could my belief be wrong? Absolutely! Do I think they are? Nope!

BTW, I want to thank all of you who don't believe as I do, yet defended the right of others to believe. Fighting for what you believe is what we should all do. Fighting for the belief of others is admirable!

 

I am a Roman Catholic, my wife is in the Protestant Church. Are we believers? Probably less so.

But whether someone believes or not I can and will not dictate. Faith is something that you have, do not have or otherwise practiced or let it be.

Whether a "higher" power tells you that you should lead your existence in chastity, I can not judge.

But I always say, if the Lord would not have wanted TS, CD, FLR, femdom, chastity, etc. then he would have immediately put a bar.

So it is probably his or her will, if it takes place, just like everything else.

 

You say on one hand that we believe things that don't make sense to other people, then use an analogy (ham) that in the end has a logical answer. I believe there is a logical non-metaphysical answer to all questions, whether we know the answer yet or not. As an Atheist I just prefer to say "I don't know" and not attach agency to things that we are not sure of, I wait for the evidence. I don't know yet is what inspired us into space and has pushed our understanding of the universe back nearly 14 billion years, and has conclusively and consistently shown us the truth of our origins on this planet. How wonderful it is to know that we are connected to every living thing on this planet and though our DNA we can see the relationships in extraordinary detail

On the death of Christ. Whether you believe he existed or not, or was the son of a deity. To say he gave up his own mortality is surely just spin.

He didn't nail himself to a cross.

Maybe religion does teach some of us to be good to each other, and for those people it can be seen as a positive. However, it does seem the safest places in the world to be are in countries with a more secular government, and less belief throughout the population.

 

That's because sin is a human concept, a label for communication. One MAN's sin is another MAN's act of compassion.

Buddha did indeed give his (past) life in compassionate ways, for example to feed a starving tigress.

The story of a Christ figure came around 500 years after Buddha, and the vedics and Bon were both way before the story of Buddha, as was Hinduism. Christ is a relative newcomer to the stage. Heck, even the Egyptians understood and weighed up the relative acts of a person probably 1000 years before Christ.

The Christ story didn't do anything new aside from attach a whole bunch of human made dogma to natures natural way.

You are wrong.

Reading books about other spiritual and religious movements will expand your perspective. You might find it enlightening, so to speak.

I found it very interesting to read the bible, and I found it fascinating to read the Quran - I learnt a lot by reading both (not least that it's bizzare that "people of the book" treat each other so badly) and at some point I'll get to the Torah.

Don't bother reading based on a google search, get some books and dive in properly.