Chastity cages and Christianity

True. As it is written.

But we gotta be careful with this Scripture. Some of THE most abused (mostly by non Christians) words of the Bible.

It means take care of your own sin.

It does NOT mean you casually accept others’ sin as ok.

I knew a guy fucking around on his wife. I shook my head. He gave me the “ye shall not judge” line.

Total bullshit. Don’t fall for it.

 

True! All have sinned and will continue to sin til death.

False! Some people love sin and practice to get better at it, others hate sin and practice to avoid it. A person will love sin and hate God or hate sin and love God. It is all about what you love, not about what you do.

 

There are some bad people in the world it is true, but few practice to get better at being bad. And, even fewer actually believe they are doing something wrong.

I can hate God and hate immorality at the same time. I don't, I'm indifferent to Gods, love humanity and hate suffering and cruelty. I don't think it is so black and white there are lots of grey areas.

What is sinful? Not looking for a list. It is a question that the Bible cannot answer for everyone. Some of what was acceptable a hundred years ago is forbidden now and some things taboo in years gone by are now practically normal. Can you imagine a Victorian gentleman agreeing to be locked up by his wife?

 

Jay, without God precisely WHOSE morality are we talking about? Without an “ enforcer “ of morality, there is only individual feelings about it. That is, moral relativism. A disastrous way for a society to live.

 

Sorry super weak argument. The “Golden Rule”, is born in nearly all of us. In addition there are many societies throughout history that have established laws and moral dictates (complete with enforcement), with no biblical support whatsoever.

 

We didn't get where we are today without a natural propensity toward cooperation. Most species do. I would also to some degree say that religion, over the last hundreds of years, has had a part in the progress of modernising what the general zeitgeist of right and wrong means to most people in a positive direction You believe morality comes from the divine, I believe it is in our nature. Morality without God? Hmmm? Which God? Does a Buddhist have no moral compass? Do I have no moral compass? We both honour our wives for the same reasons. Love our neighbors. Relitivism is for the philosophical, we know what is right and wrong and what is in the grey areas. It's the same general laws of civil society whatever the religious beliefs. No killing, stealing, raping, untruths, adultery. ...etc. basic stuff. Be nice.

 

I think you guys live in a very different place than I do.

Man is basically good? Really?

If that’s your assumption nothing I say can make sense.

 

good and bad are points of view ,not facts

you cant apply absolutes to human nature

humans have the capability of both good and bad as they see it, but most think they are doing good

it may seem bad to you, but that doesnt mean its bad, violence against others is different yes

Im not picking any acts in particular, Im just saying 'man is basically an animal' is the only way to look at it

anything else is akin to window dressing a mannequin, put all the fancy clothes you want on it but you cant change whats underneath

 

Hundreds of millions killed in wars. Thousands of years. None of which were without a war.

Yeah, I suppose it’s up to interpretation.

Ludicrous gents.

 

There’s no war like a religious war. There has been zero improvement in reducing the horrors of war since the time of Christ. Try again.

…and nothing you’ve said makes any kind of logical sense. But that’s the beauty of faith. You need not justify it. Only believe it and pray that your right.

God the creator is logically evident to me. Christ is not. The evidence is simply not there. I’m sorry that you think so little of human beings that must be hard.

 

I agree! Yes! Your right! We are on the same page!
May I suggest that the issue is who owns you? Who do you worship? (nothing = self worship) . This all is related to male chastity because I believe I will answer to my creator in regards to how I treated my wife. Who you answer to is who you worship.

Sin cannot exist without God, the issue is most people will not except His authority

How would your wife feel after she has made wild passionate love to you if you told her your state of being towards her is one of indifference? That's how God feels, He is not interested in your morality, He wants your heart

Yes! I agree! Human conscience is testimony that a higher being exists

It would have been wonderful! So, lets be men who love our wives so much we lock ourselves up! These little cages make the world a better place!

 

I truly can’t understand what point you are trying to make. Other than your last one that you reject Christ. THAT is clear.

We all must make our choice.

 

You evidence war as a rejection of the innate goodness of man. You claim Christ as the enforcer of morality. Christianity has not reduced war. Your arguments are nonsense (from a logical standpoint), but one cannot argue faith. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

 

Only takes a one rotten banana to spoil the whole bunch.

 

But can’t you see you are doing the same thing? I admit that my morality is based on faith. You CLAIM your flexible morality is based on observable facts. Whereas it’s merely a faith that you are correct.

As I’ve said for a long time, I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.

And as long as morality is whatever you say it is (man is basically good) then you can spew any sort of nonsense you wish.

But you and your ilk always pull the same stunt. “Basically good”. Define that. You cannot. Have the intellectual balls to say it. Is man good? Or is man bad?

If he’s good, then why do you pay taxes to support police and a military and even a government in the first place? It would make no sense.

Hiding behind weasel words is a cowardly form of arguing.

So if you continue to merely assert when you are claiming to be factual, you are full of shit. I admit I’m going on faith. You hide behind words.

“Man is basically good”
“It just makes logical sense”
“Christianity has not reduced war”

All unverifiable statements. Faith.

And if you had half the brain you think you do, you’d stay on topic or start another thread. This one is called Chastity and Christianity. Most 3rd graders would understand that means both chastity and Christianity are presumed to exist.

Why don’t you start a thread “Chastity and the renaming of the Cleveland Indians”?

 

I don't want to get to deep, which might be too late. I read the passage in 4 different versions/translations of the Bible, as you probably know, it is different for all of them. Some seem to agree with your conclusion but not directly, while others are very far from it. Interesting topic.

 

the only problem I have with any discussion is that people always argue opinions as facts, and not as points of view

you cant argue opinions, which by their very definition cant be right or wrong. you can only argue facts

 

I don't think anyone has flexible morality when it comes to the major topics. It is universal.

killing, stealing, raping, untruths, adultery. I'm sure there are a few more. But when it comes to consensual sex between two adults, drugs or abortion for instance, then we are in different territory. Then it becomes subjective. There are certain moral positions that are just right to mostly everyone. That isn't to say there isn't bad people out there,. We need the police because of a few rogue individuals who spoil it for the rest of us.

Interestingly, there is a larger proportion of theists to atheists in prison than in society in general. The data suggests that Atheists are less likely to commit crimes.

 

serial killers think murder is ok

is morality an opinion or a fact?

 

Ok pick apart the first word, you know what I meant. And I clarified later. I should have said hardly anyone.

"That isn't to say there isn't bad people out there,. We need the police because of a few rogue individuals who spoil it for the rest of us." But you chose to ignore that, and everything else I said.

 

Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Chris watts, David Berkowitz…. All found god.

 

If morality is fact not opinion, then why is there even a question or debate about whether chastity is compatible with Christian beliefs? It is all opinion.

 

So are they are or will be in heaven?

 

I have only made one point at all

there are opinions, and there are facts

two different things

 

I’d love to hear the fellow atheists on that one.

In case it’s not clear to the group: I consider morality an absolute—as defined by God.

WE may debate our understanding of that. But that is all we are debating.

If morality is subject to man’s opinion, there is no practical value of it.

Stealing? What if I’m really hungry and will die otherwise?

Lying? What if it’s needed to save my spouse’s life?

Fornication? Sure, we are all consenting adults.

Fucking the pet cat? You should have heard it purr.

In the city of San Francisco you cannot circumcise a newborn male. Why? Because the baby “has no choice”. But as long as that baby didn’t shake your hand upon birth and up to a week later you can kill it outright with no questions asked.

Jay’s examples of “basic morality” all came out of the Ten Commandments.

With no ultimate authority, God, there is no real morality. It’s just “feelings”. And don’t give me the tired “benevolent dictator” line.....if you don’t know where totalitarianism ends up you aren’t worth the keyboard time.