A Female Led Community

Thank you very much, Zevon, for your kind words.

I thought that this thread about the Female Led Community in Denmark where I grow up in the 1970s was long gone and forgotten.
But somehow you found it, and I am glad that you found it to be interesting
By the way almost all of the girls and us boys who grew up in our community are still living in female led relationships, and so are our daughters and sons.
It proves to me that this kind of relationship between wife and husband are both durable and liveable.
There are even some men from outside our small community who have married some of our sisters and daughters and moved in among us to live with them in a female led way, because they have been very fascinated by our independent, clever, strong-willed and yet very caring and loving young women.

Some of our Danish friends who have read this thread have criticized me for writing too much about how it was for me to grow up in a female-dominated society as a boy, and too little about my life in the same society as an adult man as my beloved wife Larissa's husband.

They may be right about that.
But I did it for two reasons:

Firstly, children are rarely mentioned in descriptions or discussions of Female Led Families.
Secondly, our life in "our little Matriarchy", as I sometimes call it, is only understood on the basis of the upbringing that the adults who today live in it had in our female led society as children. And this applies to both girls and boys alike.

Some of those who have responded to my thread here in Denmark said that it is unfair that the women owned, and still own, our houses, and that it was also not fair that the women jointly owned the surrounding fields and orchards, as I have told many times.
Among us, the women have always owned everything. We men have owned almost nothing.
How can you explain or defend that?

Firstly it back in the year 1970 actually was a group of radical leftist Danish feminist women, who bought the houses and the surrounding lands, which were quite cheap at that time.
But the reason for sole female ownership among us of course goes deeper than that.
Our mothers strongly advocated women's emancipation from patriarchy.
At that time, it was the prevailing view among feminists on the left that this emancipation process had to be achieved by women becoming more or less like men:
Women ought to have paid jobs and pursue careers just like the men did.
Women should wear clothes similar to men's clothes.
And their children should be institutionalized in nurseries and kindergartens.
Old female virtues such as motherhood were looked down upon because they stood in the way of women's full participation in the labor market, which was the only way of making women economically independent from their husbands, thus overthrowing the patriarchy.

As said our mothers had the same goal, but they had a fundamentally different point of view:
To be able to give birth to children and to be the ones who primarily took care of the children was for them what defined the female gender, and what made women the most important gender.
When I reached puberty my mother used to speak a lot with my three year younger dear little sister Ida and me about the differences between the genders, always stressing the superiority of the female sex.
She used to compare our small community with a tree:
Women and girls were the trunk of the tree.
Their men and boys being the leaves of the tree. They were it's helpers so to speak.
But as mom always stressed:
As the leaves could not survive without the trunk, so would the trunk not survive without it's leaves.
Therefore women and men, girls and boys were of equal importance, but had different roles to play.
And I still clearly remember, how mom used to stress her argument with a lot of examples from the Animal World, where the female animals are mostly the ones who choose who they want to mate with, and where it is also the female animals who foremost take care of the young animals.

Some people have noticed, that I almost always speak of Ida as my dear little sister. But this is not a convention. It is deeply felt.
Strictly speaking Ida and I are half siblings, because our mother had many lovers, who did not live with us for long, so we do not have the same father.
There is a strong resemblance between us although. For example we both have black hair like our mother had.
And because we as children lived alone together with our mom, there was a very strong bound between us. And there still is.

I know that the word "slave" is used by many to describe the relation between a man and a woman in a Female Led Relationship, but I have to say, that this word has never been used among us, because the young men who were the lovers of the women in our Female Led community were always free to leave - and many of them did - and some of them even came to visit us afterwards.

This kind of liberty a slave obviously do not have. The concept of slavery is about exploitation, and among us the girls and women have always worked every bit as hard as have the boys and men, the only difference between us being that the females always owned everything in common. This they did, not in order to exploit or enslave the men, but in order to guarantee the women's economical independence.
Our feminist mothers did not want to be dependent on a man's income.
If their husbands or lovers left them, they could always rely upon the solidarity and help of the other women of our community, exactly because they owned everything IN COMMON.

This was their way of overthrowing the patriarchy, without having to live more or less in the same way as men traditionally do in our industrialized, capitalist society.

Our very community-oriented way of life has, among other things, as a consequence, that the competitive mentality that is so prevalent in our society at large, is completely absent among us.

Competition creates continuous change. Sometimes for the worse, but often for the better.
The fact that our small Female Led Community has changed very little over the years and that we are so conservative in the sense of being bound by tradition, is due I think to our lack of the competitive mentality which is such a great driving force for change.
We still live very frugal lives, just as we did back in the 1970s with home spun clothes, made by the women and their daughters, and all that.
Like back then, we walk or ride a bike, or use public transportation.
None of us has ever owned a car. (But here you should remember, that Denmark is a very small country).
We almost never travel abroad, and our children and grandchildren have never attended kindergarten.
Our grandsons have long hair just like we had when we were boys, and by the way we still have long hair ourselves.
Just like it was for us back then, our boys are only allowed to wear briefs here in the summertime when they are at home, and I myself only wear shorts as I write this.
Boys and men still sleep naked, and our boys are still expected not to masturbate and to obey their teenage sisters, who on the other hand are expected to live up to their responsibility in the same way as my dear little sister Ida was when mom gave her authority over me on her thirteenth birthday.

Last but not least I want to say that I do not consider our way of life as better than other peoples way of life.
I only write to demonstrate, that a Female Led way of life is sustainable. I certainly do not want to imply, that all people ought to live in this way.
Neither do the other women and men of our Female Led Community, because being a tiny minority ourselves, who luckily have gained the acceptance of our neighboring communities, we know that respecting others is a precondition for being respected yourselves.

It must be said to the praise of the capitalist societies, which our mothers were otherwise so opposed to, that precisely in them it is possible for small, odd minorities such as us to live according to different norms than the majority.

 

Dear Arel

You are right that our Female Led Community does not exist in quite the same form as it did before the year 2007.

At that time, several of our young daughters, who were the heiresses to the houses - which the women have always owned individually - and to the lands, which as mentioned was jointly owned by the women, wanted to divide the jointly owned lands equally between them.
So that they could freely choose to sell some of the lands and the orchards in order to get some cash money for themselves and their families because they were getting tired of our very frugal lifestyle.

Although many of the older women in particular were very much against it, a majority of the women on one of their Women's Meetings back in 2007 decided to break with collectivism by dividing the land equally between all the female heads of families in our small community.

For many of us it was a day of mourning.
But our Female Led lifestyle did not end with the women's joint ownership.
A few of the young women chose to sell both their houses and all their landed property and move to a town with their families; but even they try to maintain a female-led family life.
Although it of course is harder for them to do so when they don't have a group of like-minded women to support them in their daily lives.

Fortunately the great majority of our women chose to stay here in the area, and even though joint ownership ceased, the common solidarity of our women certainly did not.

All this may very well soon be changed again, because all those in our community who were girls in 2007 and who are young women today, most of them themselves with husbands and children, would actually very much like to return to the time with women's joint ownership of the lands and the orchards and to our very frugal style of life, which was even more frugal then than it is now.

The ever-worsening climate crisis, which seems primarily to have been created by the consumer society's CO2 emissions, has caused both our young women and young men to perceive our little Female Led Community's original frugality and community ideals as a model to which we must return.
"You were ahead of your time", our grandchildren tell us with pride.
Now I don't think we were, because our mothers and since ourselves chose not to live as we did for the sake of the environment or the climate; but for completely different ideological and gender political reasons.
But I am almost certain that a majority of our women will decide very soon at one of their Women's Meetings to re-introduce the women's joint ownership of the land.

This clearly is not the right place to bring in a discussion about climate change, and I mention it only in order to illustrate, that the changing climate even influence opinions in a small community like ours.

Therefore I will now try to answer some of your other questions:

To your question regarding corporal punishment: Among us girls are never corporally punished. Only boys are occasionally punished with a face slap by their mother, like I was as a boy. After her thirteenth birthday my dear little sister Ida was authorized by mom to punish me in this way if I didn't obey her - I could be a bit lazy back then - but she seldom did it.

I will now tell you a little about Larissa's and my children, and how we raised them. Our daughters Ariadne and Andromeda have inherited their grandmother's Jacint's and their mother's supernatural and healing powers.
They both mentally and spiritually are very strong persons, and they were it to a very high degree even as teenage girls.
With their spiritual powers they could do things that none of us could explain. Not even they themselves.
I think the fact that they are twins perhaps even help them to connect with the spiritual powers, because often Ariadne and Andromeda almost seem to be one person, strange as it may sound.
In fact they often have had the same idea or the same thought at exactly the same moment. Even if they have been hundred of kilometres apart. There are many examples of this.
A few times they have had the same dreams in the same night, and when we talk with them they sometime are saying exactly the same sentence at the same time, talking in each other's mouth. When they were girls they did this even more often than they do today.

We have very much raised our children in the same way that we were raised ourselves.
All couples in our small Female Led Community do this, although as told not all of us live in our old locality any longer. So in the same way that my mother and the other mothers of our childhood community did, only our sons Alex and Jason were corporally punished, whereas the twins were sternly reprimanded with words, if they did something wrong.
When our twin daughters Ariadne and Andromeda were about four years of age, and Alex was six year old, Larissa quited her job to stay at home with our children.
We were all living in Larissa's mother Jacinta's house, and she stayed at home for the first years of our children's life.
It was always Larissa, never me, who punished Alex and Jason, if a corporal punishment seemed necessary. She did it like my mother did, by giving them one or two slaps to their face.
But in the summer time, where our sons only wore briefs like I did as a boy, Larissa never pulled down their briefs to squeeze their testicles, like my mom sometimes did.
This is a wrong thing to do, she said, especially when their sisters were present, which they often were.

If their little brother Jason was to be corporally punished, Andromeda and Ariadne were always there to witness it.
NOT in order to smirk at him or something like that, but because he was their favorite or pet brother (or how you will put it in English).
They loved their two year older brother Alex with sisterly love, but they pampered their four year younger brother Jason.
So when Jason was to be punished, the twins were always their to persuade their mother not to hit him, or only hit him lightly.
When the twins turned 13, Larissa started to work full time again, and our twin daughters were given full authority over their brothers - like my sister Ida was given it by our mom over me at the same age - when Larissa and I were not at home.

If I was at home, then I of cause was the natural authority person for our children.
But of course Larissa has always been the ultimate authority for them when she was at home.
Our children often came to ask my permission to do something. But they knew, that even if I would say yes they had to ask their mother, because the final decision always was her's to make.
But if I had given my permission to something, then of course the children would use this as an argument if Larissa tended to say no, and it almost always softened her up, so that she would say yea too.

By the way, as teenage girls given the Female Authority over their brothers, Ariadne and Andromeda never punished their brothers corporally.
Our son Alex, who is two years older than his sisters has later on told me, that as a boy he was in awe of his twin sisters because of their inexplainable supernatural powers, and the thought of not obeying them never occurred to him.

I of course am very proud of my wife Larissa, who is a quite extraordinary woman in many ways.
(But all human beings are extraordinary in some way or other, although it may not always be for the good...).

It has never bothered me that Larissa always was the one who made all the important decisions in our family.
That is because I always, even as a boy, have respected her wisdom and judgement.
She has a way to never let me feel inferior in her company, even if she in most ways is vastly superior to me, for example in regard to her supernatural powers, but not only that.
Even when I was a boy I never felt embarrassed or inferior when I was together with Larissa.

My dear sister Ida is still very much into the Female Led lifestyle.
She has always been the undisputed Matriarch of her family, exactly as she dreamt of as a girl.
But her life story is rather special, and perhaps I will tell more about it at a later time, because this she has allowed me to do.
Ida lives together with her husband Silas, a son of Mette, who was one of the feminist founders of our community.
Ida chose Silas as her lover and permanent male partner as they both were very young and had him come to live with her in mom's and Ida's house (where they still live).
They have three children.
Their son Peter (he is the oldest of them) and their two lovely daughters Susanne and Kirsten, who are all still living according to the Female Led ideals of their parents.
Ida has always been a very strong willed, but also a most empathic and passionate person.
Although she obviously leds in her and Silas relationship - as Larissa unquestionably always have led in our relationship - neither Ida nor Larissa would insist on something, if they know that Silas or I are strongly against it.
Female Leadership does not mean Female Dictatorship.
In any case not among us.
Because although the woman in our Female Led Relationship has the right to decide, the male also has the right to leave.
Even if it is not so easy to do in a community, where everything is owned by the women, and especially not when there are children involved, it all the same sets some limits to the power of our wifes.
But the strongest bond of course is, that we love each other, and that our loving wifes often know what we men want, before we even know it ourselves.
So as you see, we have raised our children in much the same way as we ourselves were raised.
And our children raise our grandchildren in a similar way.

You also ask if a wife among us beats her husband?

Your question reminds me of one early morning not long after Larissa had married me, and I accordingly had moved to her and her mother Jacinta's house to live together with her there, as is the costume among us.
We were standing in the living room - my mother in law Jacinta, Larissa and her sister Ophelia and I - when Jacinta said to me, that now, when I was to live with Larissa, I should know that Larissa from now on had the right to punish me in the same way that my mother and my sister used to do, if I did not obey her.
I only nodded, but Larissa looked very surprised.
That same night when Larissa and I were laying in our bed Larissa told me, that she had been very upset with her mother because of what she had said to me in the morning.
She would not contradict her mother when I was present, but she told me that she later that day had told her mother, that I was a well behaved young man, well raised by both mother and sister, who certainly did not need face slapping or the like, so it would be totally out of the question, Larissa had told her mother.
And so it was. I have never been beaten by Larissa. Or my mother in law Jacinta for that sake.

In fact none of the wifes in our Female Led Community have ever beaten their husbands, so far as I know.
And why should they?
We have since boyhood been raised to accept female authority as something quite natural.
And the men from outside our community, who have married some of our women, want to live in the Female Led way.

This must be enough for now.
The rest of your questions I can answer later on.

The names of Larissa's and my children may seem odd, and it is obviously not Danish, but Greek names, because Larissa, beeing of Greek origin, preferred Greek names for her children.

 

Dear Aral

I will try to answer more of your questions:

You ask: "Boys still sleep naked, it is nice, and girls?"

It is as you say:
Our twin daughters Ariadne and Andromeda slept together with their brothers Alex and Jason in their own room.
Alex and Jason always slept naked, whereas their sisters of course wore night gowns.
Today they themselves also let their boys sleep in the nude.

I also always sleep naked together with my beloved wife Larissa, and she wears a night gown.

As Ida and I were little kids, our mother used to bath us together.
But when I was about teen years old, she stopped doing that, and instead bathed us separately.
I think that the last time I saw Ida naked, she was six years old.
As told I always slept naked together with Ida in our big double bed and mom slept in her own bed beside us.
They of course both always wore a night gown.
But contrary to what some might think, I didn't feel embarrassed by it in any way.
That mom and my dear little sister saw me naked every evening, was not a big deal for me.
And so it certainly was not for them either.
Because what you are used to seldom bothers you.

 

You also ask: "Girls can masturbate but boys can't. Or girls also not?
What are the punishments for masturbation?"

Among us it was strictly forbidden for boys to masturbate.
It was one of the rules of our mothers who founded our community, and this rule is still upheld among us.
As I reached puberty, mom told Ida to watch over that I did not masturbate at night when we were in our bed.
If a boy indulges in the nasty habit of masturbation, mom told Ida and me, he not only cheats on his girlfriend, who should be the sole focus of his sexual energy, but he even loses some of his ability to concentrate and can't work as hard as he usually does because he also loses some of his strength.

But of course we boys sometimes masturbated in secret.
In the long run you can't combat human nature.
And as I have told in post 32 in this thread, Ida once on a nice summer day saw me masturbate under a Tree in the nearby wood.
But she did not tell mom, because - as she told me the next day when I thanked her for it - mom had only told her to watch over that I did not masturbate in our bed at night...and I wasn't in our bed when she saw me...!
So mom has never punished me for masturbating.
And if some of the other boys of our community were caught masturbating and punished my their moms, they surely were to embarrassed to tell about it.

But of course our mothers and the girls knew, that we teenage boys sometimes masturbated in secret, much as we tried not to.
Because our mothers and our sisters knew everything about us. We couldn't hide anything from them.
And frankly speaking I do not really think, that our mothers were so upset about it as you might think, because they surely knew that it was only natural for a teenage boy to feel the urge to ejaculate more often than when he had the so-called wet dreams.

Therefore, mother encouraged Ida to masturbate me and let me ejaculate if she saw that I had an erection in the morning.
By the way I think that this type of petting games are common among youngsters in all types of society.
I knew, that all the other mothers of our Female Led Community also let their daughters masturbate their teenage brothers from time to time. And we boys really enjoyed this much needed legal release of our penned up sexual energy.

In fact my mom and the other mothers considered this to be an important part of our sexual education.
I learned to control myself, and Ida learned how to control the male sexual organs. Both were important, because among us it always is the woman who controls the sexual act.

Mom told me always to warn Ida when I could feel an orgasm nearing, so that she had time to make my erection fall by squeezing my dick and pinching my testicles.
Then she would tickle me to a new erection, and I was not supposed to ejaculate until she told me to.
But naturally sometimes I failed, and had a premature ejaculation.
Of course Ida never punish me for it. No harm was done, and the fault could as well be hers as it could be mine.
But as time went on, I learned sufficient self control, and Ida learned to effectively control my dick, so that I did not have premature ejaculations any more. (Pik is the danish slang word that Ida and all the other girls always used)

This has always been our women's way of controlling the sexual act:
She sits on top of her lover and rides his hard dick.
He gives her a good warning before he feels the urge to ejaculate. As described, she causes his erection to subside, after which she tickles him into a new erection.
And so it goes on, until she gets an orgasm.
Then normally the wife will also reward her man with letting him ejaculate.
But it is up to her to decide.

As we were young, Larissa did not always let me have an orgasm when we were having intercourse.
It of course was a bit frustrating for me, but on the other hand I knew, that when she eventually would let me have an orgasm after perhaps many days of waiting, then my orgasm would be very intense indeed. So it was worth waiting for.

Through our little petting game, as Ida called it, Ida learned to control the male genitalia.
And it was necessary for her when she got a boyfriend and wanted to avoid getting pregnant.
Because our mothers and sisters did not want to use birth control pills, as they distrusted the pharmaceutical industry. And condoms were hard to come by in the countryside where we lived.
So our boyfriends and later on our wives have always used interrupted intercourse in the way I have described.

Furthermore, since then it has become known that birth control pills can actually cause cancer in rare cases. But only in rare cases.
As recently as the day before yesterday, I spoke to an over 80-year-old woman from outside our own community who had a lot of knowledge on the subject. She said that some cases of breast cancer in women could be due to years of use of birth control pills.

So I definitely believe that what our mothers, sisters and wives have always done is the right thing:
The woman should always control the sexual life, because it is she who risks becoming pregnant.

 

"Girls can masturbate but boys can't. Or girls also not?"

We boys were always told that what the girls could and couldn't do was none of our business.
And that applied to everything.
For example, I did not know when Ida started to menstruate, because this was a women's thing and it should not concern a boy like me.
I only discovered it because mother and Ida talked about it in whispering voices. But they always closed the door when I was in the house.
Not that it was something that Ida should be ashamed of. Absolutely NOT.
It just ought not concern a boy like me.

But it was no secret that the girls masturbated.
And they certainly were allowed to do it.
It was only logical, because they were the ones who were to control our sexual life, so they did not need to control themselves, as we boys did.
As a young woman Ida once told me, that when she as a girl was masturbating it turned her on to think of how she was in control of my genitals, because it gave her a powerful feeling.
She also told me, that she and her girlfriends compared their brothers down to the smallest detail.
But of course she did not tell it to me when I was a boy, because she knew that it would have been very embarrassing for me to know it at that time.

 

"You wrote, your sister beat you in the balls, also this nice practice is used of sisters as in your time?"

That is certainly not a nice practice, and it is surely not something that our daughters were allowed to do to their brothers (Ariadne and Andromeda never face slapped or hit their brothers), or the girls of our Female Led Community are allowed to do today to their brothers, even if they do not obey them, as they are supposed to do.

By the way, among us a boy is only supposed to obey his eldest sister, not his sisters in general.
When the eldest daughter in a family turns thirteen, she is given the Female Authority, which means that her siblings, both brothers AND younger sisters, must obey her when her parents are not at home.
She is given responsibility for her siblings and they must obey her. Also brothers who may be older than her, because teenage girls are much more mature and responsible than teenage boys, just like my dear little sister Ida was compared to me.
She has the right to punish her brothers with a face slap and her sisters with a stern reprimand, if they don't do what she tells them to do.

The episode you refer to happened shortly before Christmas 1979, when Ida was 14, and I was 17 years old.
I have told about it in post 15 on this thread. So in short:

Mother was in Copenhagen for a whole weekend, and Ida and I had a lot to get done before Christmas.
But on Saturday I spent almost the whole day playing chess in the nearby village with my friend Tom, even though Ida had only sent me there to buy something.
When I finally got home, Ida was furious with me and face slapped me.

When mother came back home the next day we were far from finished with our Christmas preparations because I had wasted almost a whole day.
But Mother only scolded Ida.
Not me, only Ida, because it was Ida who was in charge.
She even said that Ida had failed and not lived up to her responsibility, and that made Ida very very sad.

That night neither Ida nor I could sleep.
Ida kept reprimanding and blaming me in a whispering voice.
She was so furious with me that she even tried to squeeze my testicles, something that she had never done before, but I got hold of her wrists.
But then she smashed her knee right into my groin and hit my testicles, and it hurt like crazy.
I moaned in pain, and mother woke up.
But again mom only blamed Ida. She should not punish me for her own shortcomings, mom said.

As you see it was in a very extraordinary situation, that Ida hit my testicles.

It hurt very very much to be beaten in the balls, and it can be dangerous.
It is by no means a nice practice.
Ida only did it, because she felt so unjustly treated my mom for something, where only I was to blame.
I felt in the same way. Next morning I told Ida how sorry I was and I apologized again to her. She then finally forgave me and hugged me.
And after this I never ever let Ida down again.
I loved my dear little sister, and I would not bring her in this situation again.

So the last time I has been face slapped and hurt by a girl was back then when I was 17 year.
And I deserved it.

 

I see that I in my last post made a very ugly language error.
I wrote "I has" instead of "I have".

I know that I make a lot of spelling and grammatical errors.
But even I would never say "I has".
I discovered the error too late to correct it.

 

"What if a girl wants to sleep also naked?

Is it prohibited for a girl to sleep naked?

If yes. Some girls also have a desire to be naked, sometimes. Don't girls envy boys that they have this privilege be naked?

I read about many families where it is the opposite, the girls must be naked and for boys it's voluntary. And not only in night, but also a lot of time in the house during the day. And not for the patriarchy/matriarchy, but for girls to gain self-confidence and not be ashamed of their bodies. For it their mothers demand it, at home girls must be often naked, and outdoors only modest clothes (few clothes). It's for their health and self-esteem.

This idea not exist in your community?"

Dear Aral

Frankly speaking I think, that the girls of our Female Led Community back then when I was a boy considered it a privilege NOT to have to be shirtless like we boys were for the whole summer period.
I not only think it. I know it, because the girls told us so themselves.

But as you correctly say, some girls also have a desire to be naked, sometimes.
So also the girls of our small community. Then they would bath naked in the nearby lake or in the small river running through the wood some distance away, or they were sun bathing by the lake or in the small gardens surrounding our cottages at home, when we boys were at work.
At such occasions we boys were strictly forbidden to come near the girls or to peep on them.
This was to protect their modesty, we were told, something that the girls and their mothers were almost hysterical about, as it seemed to us boys.

It may seem strange, because at that time it was quite common for both men and women among the left-wing hippies here in Denmark to go naked in the summer period.
They often did, men and women alike. For example, both at Christiania in Copenhagen and at Thylejren in North Jutland.
(The Thy Camp was a hippie camp, which still exists, set up by Det Ny Samfund. In English The New Community).

It was in the name of liberation and sexual freedom.
But many of the young girls, who walked around more or less naked, were unfortunately subjected to harassment and gross abuse or regular rape by some of the men.

I didn't know it at the time - I was only a boy after all - but especially after Me Too, but also decades earlier, a lot of reports have come out about the many assaults against women in the presumably sexually liberated hippie communities at that time.
Assaults, which were also sometimes committed by men outside the hippie community.
They way some of those women were treated by some of the so called "progressive" men back then, and unfortunately ever since, is hard to believe. But it is the truth.

But of course our feminist mothers, who founded our Female Led Community at exactly that time, as well as all the other feminists on the left back then knew about this.

As one proof of this among many, I would like to mention the annual Femø Women's Camps (Femø Kvindelejren) which started in the summer of 1971 and which brought together feminists from all over Denmark.
At Femø Lejren, it was quite common for the women to go naked.
But for this very reason, men and boys over twelve years of age were not allowed access to the camp.

I remember that as a boy I sometimes heard my mother and the adult women speak about "the sexual objectification of girls and women", which our moms were strongly against. And for good reasons, I think.
Some of them had experienced, and all of them had heard of, sexual harassment of females, often committed by young men in their own political circle, as I just have described it..

I think it on that background is understandable if the fear of sexual assault was deep felt for our mothers. Also in regard to what might happen to their daughters.
And it is understandably that they made the rule that only boys and men should sleep naked and be shirtless in the summer period.
Whereas girls and women were to remain fully clothed.

You write that girls should also be allowed to be naked for their health and self-esteem.

Although this is not so among us, I tend to agree with you.
But as you know, it is the women who are making the rules among us.
And I am sure that they will not agree to it.

Actually I wrote about it last year in another thread "CFnm subs" on this Forum (link: https://www.chastitymansion.com/forums/index.php?threads/cfnm-subs.38059/page-2#post-537343).

Although it is a bad habit to post the same thing twice, I will cheat a little bit and in my following post reuse what I last year wrote on the subject we are discussing here, because I made much of the same point that you are making.

 

After Larissa married me, I moved to her place to live together with her in her mother Jacinta's house, where we got a little room of our own to sleep in.
I of course always was naked in bed, whereas Larissa wore a night gown.
If Larissa wanted to have sexual intercourse with me, she just tickled me around my nipples and around my bottom belly, which would instantly make me aroused.
She would then shift her attention to my genitals, and after a while she would lift up in her night gown, and place herself upon my erected male member.
Only if she felt like it, she would take off her night gown and be naked herself.
I didn't mind, and did not ask her to undress. But the fact that Larissa and the other girls and women of our community tended to be a bit shy about their bodies, and did not seem to be as comfortable with being naked together with others as I and all the other boys and young men of our Female Led Community were, because the rules that the women imposed upon us had made us used to it since childhood, made me already back then as a young man wonder, if not we boys really were the ones who had benefited the most from the rule of our community regarding nudity of boys versus modesty of girls?

It has always been the rule in the family of my beloved wife Larissa and me, that I have to only wear shorts in the summer period, and our sons were only allowed to wear briefs, like I was as a boy.

After Larissa married me, and I started to live with her at her place, I got a job in a library (which is not physical hard work, but I had come to love books, especially books about history) and of course in my spare time I also did my part of the work in the fields and orchards of our community, which as told the women owned in common.

It could be hard physical work, but we always worked on the fields and the orchards in groups, and that I think made our works a lot easier because of our strong sense of social community.
When our sons, Alex and Jason, were teenage boys they of course also started to work in the fields and orchards of our community when they came home from school like all the other boys and men of our little Matriarchy (as I called it back then) did.

(Our twin daughters Ariadne and Andromeda also had a lot of work to do, but it was centered at the house, helping Larissa making our beautiful homespun clothes, managing the garden and our domestic animals, of which we had quite a few, learning all about trade (most of what we produced we sold in order to earn money), doing accounts, learn about banking and stuff like that which was necessary for them to know as they were the heiresses to the property, which the women owned in common).

On cold and windy summer days my sons Alex and Jason, only wearing briefs clearly froze, and complained to me about it.
But I hardly noticed the cold weather and wondered, if the temperatures on cold summer days weren't so low like the used to be when I was a boy?
But of course it was me who during the years had got used to endure cold weather to an extend that I hardly noticed it.
So yes: Nudity build character and hardens you.
Alex and Jason also in the beginning of every summer period complained to me about how embarrassing it was for them to have to only wear briefs, when the girls remained fully clothed.
But I told them what their mother once had answered me one early summer day when she sensed my embarrassment of being almost naked together with her in her beautiful homespun dress:
"I drenge er flotte både med og uden tøj" (you boys are handsome both with and without clothes), Larissa told me back then with a smile, and that immediately made my embarrassment disappear.
It also made Alex and Jason laugh and feel better.
And as with me and the other boys back in the 1970s, Alex's and Jason's sense of embarrassment always disappeared after a few weeks.

 

Dear LockitMan

Of course there are many stories from my childhood that I have not told you about.
In particular, I am thinking of an incident which involved my dear little sister Ida's best girlfriend Louise (they are still close friends), but I have to get Louise's permission before I tell about it.

Instead I will tell a bit more about what the concept of Female Led means among us, and how it works in our daily life.

As I already have told, back in the 1970s most of the women, who founded our Female Led Community had changing male lovers.
The males came and went, so to speak.
I think that it was partly due to the concept of "free love", which was so popular among young people, who considered themselves as being progressive back then.
But I also believe that it was partly due to the fact that these young men in the long run could not come to terms with living in a completely female-dominated community as ours was.
After all, they were all brought up according to more or less patriarchal family norms.
Even if young people may want to break with their family background and upbringing, it often is not so easy as it sounds.


The biggest difference between our mothers' generation and us who grew up as their daughters and sons in our small Female Led Community is that our marriages throughout the years have proven to be very stable.
Almost all of us and our children too are living in Female Led Relationships
(only Hanne, as I have told about earlier, and her brothers do not), and there has not been a single divorce among us.
This is quite unusual, because many people get divorced in Denmark, but I think it is due to the strong sense of solidarity and the necessity of sticking together in unity that our mothers instilled in us from very early on in our childhood, which was enforced by our sense of being the "odd ones out" because of our Female Led lifestyle and the fact that our mothers and even our teenage sisters were the authority persons among us.
It is also of great importance that for us men it feels natural for the women to lead, because we have been used to it from our childhood.
We like it best that way, and we know - both women and men among us - that we can hardly find anything like it outside of our small community.

In addition, stable family relationships are best for our children, and this is of the utmost importance to us.

Although I live in a Female Led Marriage with my beloved wife Larissa, she is not the most important person in our family.
The most important persons have always been our children, and so it is in all the Female Led families of our community. And in most other families too, I think.
To us women are superior to men because they give birth to the children. And afterwards they are prime caretakers of the babies. We men being their helpers.
Women mostly have a stronger and better intuition than men, and if they, as girls and young women, are allowed to develop their typically female abilities and characteristics, they very often grow up to be wiser than us men, and have a better overall understanding than we men have.

This is why men among us obey their wives as I obey my beloved wife Larissa.

In my next post I will give you an example of that.

 

Although Larissa is the undisputed Matriarch in our family, we of course sometimes disagree, and then we discuss the matter and try to reach a common understanding, which usually also succeeds.
But if Larissa wants to end our discussion, she always just stands with her hands on her hips.
It is a clear and unmistakably sign from her to me that it's time for me to end the discussion and follow her lead and obey her, as I promised that I would always do when she married me.
Larissa never raises her voice. She just stands there with her hands on her hips, looking at me with a determined and steady gaze..
Then I always give in and respect her right to decide.
Not only because I once promised it, but because I know she by far is the wisest of us.

If you have children, you will know that children are very keen to observe their parents, and that they love to imitate the adults.
As children, if our two twin daughters Ariadne and Andromeda quarreled with their two year older brother Alex about something, all his sisters had to do was to stare at him and stand with their hands on their hips. This would always silence Alex, and he would then give in and let his sisters have their way.

Normally Larissa will never insist on something if she knows that I am very much against it.
But there has been some exceptions.

One of which I will tell of here.

I think that I in one of my post told you, that after Larissa married me I got a job in a library.
I was very happy with this job because I have always loved books and the colleagues were very nice.
Admittedly, I had to hand over my salary, not to Larissa, but to my mother-in-law Jacinta.
After all, we were living in her house, and she was the Matriarch of the family.
But it didn't bother me, because Larissa and her sister Ophilia, who also had paid jobs at the time, also handed over their wages to their mother.
In that way we had shared finances, or a common fund (or what ever you call it in English) perhaps a bit like in a Kibbutz in Israel.

(When Larissa later on took over the role as Matriarch of our family it of course was she who controlled our economy as it still is).


Larissa, on the other hand, was not happy with that I worked in a library.
She wanted me to get a craftsman education, and she talked a lot to me about it, because in that way I would be of much greater use to our small community.

Although, or perhaps precisely because our community is Female Led, our women greatly value masculine virtues.
There are both carpenters and two masons among us men. Three of us have taken an agricultural education, which is of great use to us, since we live in the countryside.
My childhood friend, Tom, who chose to move in with us, fascinated of our lifestyle and deeply in love with Larissa's sister Ophilia, who chose to marry him, is an electrician, and I could go on like that.
Therefore, we always are able to handle most practical tasks ourselves, and if a new house is to be built for one of our newly married daughters, we only need minimal outside help.
(By the way, we always build such houses either as an extension to her mother's house, or very close to her mother's house. Because according to our rules it is the daughters' inheritance.)

Although I would very much like to continue working in the library, Larissa insisted that I should be useful to our community by taking a craftsman education, and she suggested that I become a carpenter because she knew there was a carpenter in a town not very far away. who was looking for an apprentice.
Larissa and I argued about it for weeks. Larissa kept pointing out, not only that I was physically strong, but also that I was rather good with my hands.
But I loved working with books.
As an immature young man of 21-22 years old, I thought mostly of myself, whereas Larissa only thought of what was best for all of us.
She constantly urged me to think of what was best for our Female Led Community. And not of what I wanted myself.
My mother-in-law Jacinta and Ophilia never interfered in our discussions.
They clearly thought that it was something Larissa could handle herself.
And of course she could.
At long last she lost patience with me, put her hands on her hips, and looked at me with a determined and steady gaze as a clear signal to me to give in and obey, which I did.

So I became a carpenter apprentice, and I have worked as a carpenter ever since.
Today I have to say that Larissa was right.
The work as a carpenter suites me.
It often is physically hard work, but I have been used to hard work since childhood.
There is also a lot of outdoor work, but I really love that, because I have always been used to that as well.

Besides, I earn more money as a carpenter than I did at the library.
But the money was not the reason why Larissa wanted me to become a carpenter, as I have told.
With my skills as a carpenter, I have often been able to help the others in our small community, and ever since I became a qualified carpenter, I have been very grateful to Larissa that she led me on to that path in life.

For those who may think that this sounds unfair, I would like to add that Larissa as a young mother likewise gave up her childhood dream of studying medicine to become a doctor and help sick people.

In Denmark, a university education is free for those who have the qualifications, which Larissa had.
But we got three children only two years apart.
First our son Alex, (after his birth Larissa quited her paid job in order to stay at home with our son). Two years later we had our twin daughters Ariadne and Andromeda. And four years after that Jason, our youngest son.
For Larissa, consideration for our children came before her desire to study medicine and later become a doctor.

So Larissa didn't demand anything from me that she wasn't willing to give herself.
She has never done that.
This fact makes it easy for me to obey Larissa, without in any way feeling embarrassed about it, as you perhaps will understand.

And although I deep down know, that Larissa in many (but of course not in all) ways is vastly superior to me, I never feel inferior together with her.
I can't explain why it is so.
But it was so even when I knew her when I was a boy.

 

As told in my last post I obeyed Larissa when she wished me to become a carpenter, although I very much wanted to keep my job at the library. And I have never regretted it. Larissa turned out to be right. To work as a carpenter suits me, but this I of course did not know back then when I gave in to her wish.
I gave in to Larissa, because I knew that I had to. And I still think so.
As I told you in post 58 of this thread, Larissa and I were married according to a Matriarchal Marriage Ritual, in which I promised to "love, serve and obey" Larissa. ("Elske, tjene og adlyde Larissa", as I said in Danish)..
You should not make such a promise if you are not willing to obey our wife even when it is concerning a case of great importance that really, really matters to you, as the question about my future work did to me.

Among us Female Led do not mean female tyranny - a fact that I have often stressed - and normally Larissa will never insist on something if she knows that I am totally against it.
But our dispute about my future work was not only important to me. It also meant a lot to Larissa, because she correctly realized that it was an issue that concerned our entire Female Led Community that I learned something that could benefit us all.
That's why she insisted, and that's why I in the end had to give in to her.

But it also meant a lot that I lived with Larissa in her mother Jacinta's house.
Although my mother-in-law and Larissa's sister Ophilia never interfered in our discussions, the fact that I lived in their house in a subtle but very real way helped to emphasize Larissa's status as the one who has the natural right to decide.
Among us, it is always the man who moves in with his wife to live at her place together with her and her family, because as a daughter, she and her sisters are the heiresses to everything that belongs to their mother.
This from the very beginning reinforces the woman's dominant position in the marriage to a degree that should not be underestimated or overlooked.
It is something I know from experience. Because the few women from our Female Led Community who have chosen to move to Copenhagen or to another city together with their husbands to live there have found it more difficult to maintain their Female Led lifestyle in our traditional way in different and neutral surroundings, where they do not have the support of their mothers, sisters and the other women of our community on a day to day basis as they are used to.
Among us in our community there is an unbreakable solidarity among the women, and always has been.

All this does not mean that I felt oppressed by my mother-in-law in any way, quite the contrary.
My mother-in-law Jacinta never remarried after her left-winged Greek husband disappeared after the right-winged military coup in Greece in the year 1967 (he was presumably killed) and she had to flee the country with her two daughters.
Therefore, Larissa and Ophilia do not have a brother.
In a way I became the son that Jacinta herself never had.
So I was very much favored by her, I have to say.
She was like a second mother to me.

Allthough I did not work there any more, I continued to borrow books from our local library.
After Thomas, Torben and Knud and I were circumcised at midsummer 1978, as I told you about in the posts 33 and 38, I became very interested in everything that I could find out about the ancient Matriarchies.
I began to share my dear little sister Ida's fascination with this subject.
I wanted to read all about ancient Matriarchies, probably also to make sense of my own circumcision, which according to my mother and the other women of our community back then had been an ancient, Matriarchal ritual.
Soon I had read everything that had been written on the subject Matriarchy in Danish; but I knew that there were many more books in German and in English on the subject, which I could not borrow at the library, and could not afford to buy.

It changed after Larissa married me.

I started to earn money and although, like Larissa and Ophilia, I had to hand over my salary to Jacinta, I could always ask her for money to buy a book, for example.
I did, and Jacinta never said no.
Over the years I have acquired a rather large collection of books, because my interest gradually expanded from ancient Matriarchies to also include the entire history of the Antiquity, the Middle Ages and of modern times.

At first it was my mother-in-law who I had to ask for money to buy books.
Later on, it was Larissa who as Head of Family decided on the money, as it of course still is.
But they have only said no to me a few times.
(By the way I soon found out that there is no solid evidence or proof that male circumcision was a ritual in ancient Matriarchies. It turned out to be speculations created by feminist authors without ancient sources to back it up. An exception is Ancient Egypt, where teenage boys since the time of the Old Kingdom were in fact circumcised at approximately the same age as I was when I was circumcised (link: https://pixels.com/featured/1-circumcision-ancient-egypt-2600-bc-wellcome-images.html). But even if women in ancient Egypt had a much freer position than in many other cultures, it cannot be called a Matriarchy.).

So as you can see, Female Led among us is not Female tyranny.

But among us we have the rule that whoever gets something from the community must also give something back to the community, if possible.

Therefore it was expected of me that I should tell the others about the knowledge I gained through the books I was allowed to buy.
(And of course everyone could borrow the books and keep them for as long as they wished).
So there were many evenings where I lectured on that what I had read about, and my lectures were always well attended. Often there even were visitors from the nearby villages who came to hear me.
Remember that back then before the turn of the century, most of us in our small Female Led Community still didn't have televisions.
We spent the evenings entertaining ourselves. And I contributed with my lectures.

(I don't know if there is a better word in English than "lectures", which sounds very academic to me, and I am not an academic. In Danish we say "foredrag", which corresponds to the German "Vortrag").

I think it is due to a bad habit from my many lectures that my posts are always so long.

It's bad, because too long posts are rarely read.

 

Dear spider2003 and maid Julie:

Thanks.

You are both very kind.

 

Dear femsupguy:

A much belated answer to you:

Two weeks ago you asked me:
"Hey Tjeik , can you tell how boys were supposed to respect women's modesty , and how girls were taught from her childhood to do that for whole life?
Edit : how do boys get treated if they do otherwise?"

I think that I have explained it in some of my above post, but this thread has gradually become so long that even I have difficulty remembering it all, and I don't want to read the whole thread again.
It is therefore easier for me to answer you than to make references to my posts in the thread.

As to how girls were taught modesty and to preserve it from childhood and for their whole life, I will use my own little family as an example, because the same norms and rules prevailed among all the families in our Female Led Community, and to this day still do:

Until my dear little sister Ida was six year old, and I was nine year old, our mother used to bath us together in a big tub. We had a lot of fun, splashing water at each other, and playing other childish games.
But after I turned 10, mother started to bath us separately. Actually I never ever saw my sister naked since that time.
Ida on the other hand saw me naked every night, because we slept together in a big double bed, where I always slept naked, whereas Ida always wore a night gown, as did our mom, who slept in another bed beside us.
It had always been in this way, and therefore neither my sister or I thought much about it. What you from early childhood are used to as a daily routine does not bother or embarrass you.
Although as I have told in some of my posts I did not like it when Ida's girlfriend Louise was to sleep with us, because although she was a nice girl, after all she did not belong to our family, and I felt embarrassed to have to be totally naked in bed in her presence.

I have told a lot about the matriarchal inspired ideology of the feminist women of our Female Led Community and how we children - girls and boys alike - constantly were told by our mothers about how girls were vastly superior to boys. Especially as we reached puberty we were told about this fact of life and were expected to understand and respect it.
I clearly remember how embarrassing it was for us boys. And in the beginning I struggled to accept the fact, that my dear little sister Ida, being a girl, although three years younger than me, all the same was superior to me because I was a boy and she a girl. But in the end I accepted it, as I have told in previous posts.
(And I do not regret it and I don't think that it was unfair of mom to point out this fact of life to Ida and me. Ida really WAS mentally and intellectually vastly superior to me back then, and she still is, although not nearly so much so as she was back then. Considering that girls mature much faster than boys).

But knowing that the girls were superior to us boys wasn't just embarrassing. It was also very exciting and tantalizing. It naturally made us respect the girls and greatly admire them, and it made us feel proud when the girls showed us attention.
Also physically the girls were superior to us boys, we were told, because of their ability to create new life.
We knew that the girls began to menstruate at some point, and we had also heard that it had something to do with blood.
But exactly why and how we didn't know, and our mothers and sisters certainly didn't tell us about it.
Because it was a woman's thing that should not concern us boys.

On the other hand the girls of course knew everything about our bodily functions, including our genitals.

All this made the girls superior to us boys, we were told, but it at the same time also somehow made the girls vulnerable, we understood, although it was not clearly stated.
As a young boy my mother made me understand, that when some day I got a girlfriend I should let her control our sexual life without any questions, because she was the one who might risk an unwanted pregnancy.
Therefore as youngsters we boys were told to lay on our backs, when we had sexual intercourse with a girlfriend and let her ride us - so to speak - and be in control.
It might seem odd, but I don't think that it is: If the man is laying on his back during intercourse, and the woman is riding him, there is no chance that he in any way is raping her or forcing himself upon her, or that she does not do it voluntarily.

In our Female Led Community, the girls' modesty was jealously guarded by their mothers.
In the summer, when we boys only wore briefs when we were at home or working in our mothers' orchards and fields, the girls of course wore their beautiful home-spun dresses. From very early on my sister Ida and all the other girls of our small community were told, that they had to protect their modesty in the same way that we boys were told to respect the superior status of the girls and as a consequence also respect their modesty, so it came natural through learning to girls and boys alike, I would say.

Of course in the summer the girls also wanted to have sun tanned bodies just like us boys, who as said went almost naked for the whole summer when we were in our own community.
Then the girls would take off all their clothes. In order not to get "zebra stripes", they never used bikinis and panties when sunbathing.
They did it by a small stream by a lake in the nearby woods, or in their backyards, far away from us boys.
(On hot summer days, we boys also took off our briefs to get the same colour all over our bodies. But we always hurried to put our briefs on if we saw any of the girls or women approaching. Because of course we also had a sense of modesty that we wanted to protect).

As to how boys were treated if they did not respect the modesty of the girls the answer is simple:
We boys certainly respected the rules of our Female Led Community, including the required respect for the modesty of the girls.
Not only because it would have serious consequences for us if we didn't, but also and foremost because belonging to a small and in the opinion of most people strange or odd community we, due to the pressure from outside, had a strong sense of belonging to our Female Led Community and solidarity towards it and it's strongly matriarchal principles, even if we were boys.
(Once there actually was a boy among us, who on a hot summer day accidentally - also not on purpose - happened to see some of the girls sunbathing naked in the above mentioned wood. He was afterwards severely punished, although he did not do it on purpose. I have told about it earlier, and have also been asked, how this boy was punished. But I simply don't know. I think the punishment must have been humiliating for him, because he never told us about it. And of course we did not ask, in order not to embarrass him further).

All those rules, including the control the girls and later on our wifes were to have over our sexual life later on in life, were meant to protect girls and women from unwanted pregnancies, we boys were told.
Every rule the women made in our Female Led Community had a rational explanation.

Those rules of course also stressed the superiority of the girls, but as told it in a strange way also was fascinating and tantalizing for us boys. To us the girls in a way were almost mysterious beings.

But the fact that we girls and boys were brought up so differently, and that when we reached puberty our mothers so unequivocally constantly emphasized the importance that it was the girls, and only the girls, who should control our sexual lives, also had a much darker background than I knew back then.
It was only much later that I found out, and I will tell about that in a following post.

(I want to apologize for my late answer. I would have answered last weekend, but unfortunately I did not have time. I don't know when I will have time to write my following post. But perhaps tomorrow, I hope).