Is it fiction or abuse?

Consent is not quite that simple in an established relationship like a marriage.

For a start, withdrawing consent might make all the kink go away, not as a manipulative strategy but just because making the femdom complicated might make it less attractive to a partner.

Then there's the problem that the sex in some relationships that only works with the power exchange. So sometimes the choice is between too much kink, or no intimacy.

Finally, where the - call it - structural coercion goes with the grain of our masochism, being trapped feels good.

 

Good information. But for those in a working femdom, D/srelationship. The consent isnt needed.

Your partner knows what he can do with you. Even if he or she crosses over limits sometimes.

The lack of nonconsent is enough consent for me.
My wife, who is in charge in our relationship is allowed to do everything she wants to me. This has been my consent I gave her.

Everything she does without me saying no, is a yes.
And of course she sometimes stretched the boundaries a bit, which is important.

Well luckily she hasnt too many evil phantasies and is a more or less loving person.

 

giggle.

 

One aspect I have noticed in the fem dom kink, is the attraction of the negative aspects. Like exposing yourself to blackmail, financial submission, embarrassment.

It’s not healthy, but the thrill of being so screwed so to speak, is worth it. I myself find that abusive, even though he went in willingly, he has something driving him to make those poor decisions. I won’t go on to say it’s a mental disorder or anything like that, but he is vulnerable to coercion and bad choices due to his need to fill that kink.

As far as the physical abuse stuff, I am not a good advocate. Not that I don’t sympathize, but I don’t understand it. I don’t understand why people just don’t leave. This isn’t exactly the 50’s where someone stays at home, has no money or job opportunities, and feels trapped. I know people do feel trapped and feel the need to stay with someone that hurts them, I just don’t get it.

I understand staying in a crappy relationship for tons of reasons, I did this for years with my ex because we had a child. I stayed because leaving meant I would lose him for half the time. Crappy relationships are one thing, abusive physically is another. I would think there would be a line that can’t be crossed, yet I do know people cross them all the time and their partner’s stay. My current wife had an ex that hit her and it took her several years before she had enough. Blame, self confidence, shame, I’m sure we’re big factors, I myself just don’t get how it would ever get to that point. But me not understanding it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, and I didn’t mean to convey that some of these bdsm dynamics aren’t unhealthy or abusive.

 

You don't need to ring anyone for physical abuse, just call out to your wife in the other room and I'm sure she'll be happy to supply you with some.

 

Lol. She’s threatened me with the cane again… and when I fixed the thing she was upset with, she told me to undo it. I think she’s back into the “I don’t need an excuse” stage.

 

I have definitely talked to a few people on here that I thought were in abusive relationships for sure. Thanks for writing this.

 

I try not to weigh in on these thoughty-serious debates, but @Weeble touched a nerve (not bad, trust me, but I must explain).

In some ways, I would be the poster child (poster old-man?) for an abusive chastity relationship:

• She had been trained in this years before we met and never discussed with me.
• It was several months into our chastity play when she confessed this, and by then I was "hooked".
• I am not allowed a safeword.
• Our play has extended into corporal punishment, pegging, and other things that were formerly beyond my hard-limits.
• I haven't been allowed to touch myself in well over a year. I am handcuffed any time the cage is off.
• I really, really, want to touch myself and/or orgasm. I never wished for this.
• We both believe our marriage wouldn't survive if I were free, she would feel hurt or cheated on inside, so Yes, I can cut this off but Yes that would end the marriage and NO I don't want that.

So the OP had me sit up and think, am I being abused? It is not bad to be reminded to do a sanity check once in a while. I can confidently say my answer is NO:

• I am having fun and enjoy my sex life more, and in more ways, than ever.
• I truly enjoy making her happy, and she truly enjoys the power she has over me, which makes even that enjoyable.
• Even in my naïve state 4 years ago, I understood that handing a woman the key to a cage on my cock was a very serious thing and I better be comfortable with that person and their choices.
• What I discovered after doing so was that she was much harsher than I ever could have imagined.
• And I loved it. So much so that I asked her to marry me (whilst caged) and did marry her (also wearing).
• She is not joking when she reminds me that my real wedding ring is the one only visible to her in the bedroom and that pleases both of us.
• She shows her love to me every day in so many ways by her cruel control, by saying "No", by letting me serve her for our pleasure, and by many other caring actions.
• We talk. And truly enjoy each other's company. If this is a manipulation it is a damn good one.
• Of course we discussed safe words, and the reason she doesn't want one is that we should know and respect one another well enough not to need one. We don't play pretend and "NO" still means no.
• Somehow I feel just as strong, and just as Alpha as before (except in "that" way), just more alive and more aware of my sexuality. Maybe a bit too cocky for her still (and I enjoy the resulting challenge).

Not really sure I have a point here. As I said, on facts my case would be clear abuse. At first read your post bothered me a bit, maybe for that reason. It quickly helped me remember the yin and yang in my relationship and how well it works (vs a very emotionally abusive first marriage that no call center, support group or guardian ad-litem could help). For the reasons others have stated I would assume that most subs on here are aware of the tradeoffs and options if they want out, but a sober reflection such as yours from time to time is healthy. Thank you.

 

Let not forget men are also caught up in the circle of abuse as well
It's not easy to escape form a abusive relationship due to the control that the other person has Where do you go that is safe is another one as you probably have already been isolated from your friends and cut off from money Now add kids to the mix

 

Excellent post, thank you!

 

Looking back, I was abusive in my 20s, with my first girlfriend, to an extent, though probably no worse than most boys.

My second girlfriend was studying sociology. As she cooked our dinner, I speed-read her required reading, often on feminism, précised the essay her lecturers expected. Then we ate and bonked like rabbits.

In the morning I'd go to work, and she'd write an essay based on my notes, usually a Marxist critique of what she should have read. So I became a feminist with a degree of insight, and so I learned better.

I was elected as a Councillor. The neighbours of the local Refuge bought their council houses and thought they no longer had to put up with the Refuge next door, so blew its location. With my first wife and Womens' Aid, I helped create a new refuge in a house bought in advance of a road scheme and left derelict.

Later I founded Muir Academy for naughty adult boys, girls and special girls with Miss Prim. As a result, I have corresponded in depth, talked on the telephone or in person to more submissive men and women than most will have the chance to, by virtue of my experience there and with other similar ventures.

Most submissives, at some point in the lives, have mistaken a domineering bully or predator, mistaking them for the caring, nurturing Dominant they seek, often with tragic and/or lifelong ill-effects.

At one point in my life, I had an intense, short-lived relationship that ended badly; learning the hard way the truth that often the last person to realise that a relationship is abusive is the victim.

I've tangled with more than a few bullies. narcissists, sociopaths, stalkers, etc. too

I’ve thought around these issues now for 65 years. I can trace it back to a particular children's book I read, aged 7 years old. (Swallows and Amazons by Arthur Ransome.)

I put all my life experience into analysing my understanding of kink: as a child, at school, university, my career in the war industry, at sea, politics, the peace movement, my love-life, marriages and bringing up children, (though of course my children were never involved), as well as in kink.

My view is that everybody in the world does D/s, Dominance/submission, all the time, in a million different ways; whether in the family, in their religion, in the workplace. Some measure of “power transfer” can be, and usually is, involved in every inter-reaction between one person and another, whether they realise it or not.

The trouble with that, is that because it is all implicit, unconscious, never fully explained or spelled out, so it often leads to bad and unbalanced human relationships, e.g. situations where the “Dom” has the power, authority, control, without taking responsibility for their actions: the “dictator” scenario.

The converse of that are situations is that people are forced into situations where they have responsibility with insufficient power, authority, control, etc. to discharge it; the “martyr” scenario.

To me, it is healthy when power is balanced with responsibility, control with care, where a Dom(me) has 99% of both and the slave has 1%. Or 50/50 as in an idealised modern marriage. Both seem balanced to me.

There are far too many exploitive groups, IMHO including most governments, religions, corporations, political parties. Often predators lead and use them for their personal ends. These predatory hypocrites are the first to condemn folk like us.

They know we are a threat to them, we can see them for what they really are. They’ll usually pose as self-appointed moral guardians, accuse us of doing all the things they routinely do without caring; exploit, abuse women and children, lie, cheat and steal.

We have more than our fair share in the BDSM world. Not so many in overall terms, maybe: but because they get rejected a lot, as people see through them, where the good people get snapped up PDQ and so are not on the market long, it can seem that most available men are that sort.

Anyway, as the OP points out, we should all be aware that abuse happens. It is not always an abusive Dom(me) with a sub victim, I have several times seen a sub 'topping from the bottom' in a way I would consider abusive. Also, those perennially seeking a 'white knight' to rescue them from situations they create.

There are no easy answers, beware of anyone who suggests there is!

 

Interesting combination of experience and project @Guy Masterleigh Bt . I don't want to hijack this post but hope you will bring us up to speed on what you are creating at Tawsingham in another post (sorry if I missed one)...

 

It took a lot to write that. Thank you for doing it. As I mentioned in my post earlier in this thread- we are living in a grey area where abuse and uneven power exchange is sought after. I'm going to say what I think, so take it for what it is worth (not much, I'm an internet stranger, but maybe hearing it might help in some way).

I have read your posts over time, and they have been very informative and at times cautionary. Skipping through to my thoughts- Your wife wanted to find someone to practice an intense version of chastity with. She met you, hid that from you, got you "hooked" and took away something very important from you with the promise that she will replace it with something else you will want more. She worked hard to sell you on how this new thing will be even better and you bought into it even though you really are missing what all humans from the beginning of time experience- touching themselves.

You accepted slow changes because she made sure to make life amazing for you until you could not go back. But now today you still do want that thing you never wanted to give up. You are living the perfectly bottled version of Stockholm syndrome. It is a form of abuse, a VERY powerful one. You can go on and accept that you may never touch your penis again for the rest of your life, but in any healthy relationship, even ones as extreme as those on this site, there has to be an open line of communication and a give and take. You never wanted chastity and your wife thrives off of your denied desire to hold yourself once more. The more you are denied and desperate the happier she is. Yes. It is abuse. Most people on this site WANT that. You didn't and yet you got the most extreme version of it and you are only starting...

 

Yup and there are men who suffer the same fate but it's not as publicized.

 

It seems to me abuse, whether of minors, seniors, women and men is ubiquitous, it happens all the time, everywhere.

Many abusers, and probably most of those abused, do not recognise it for what it is, and would loudly deny it and defend their relationship and codependent.

If an abusive relationship ends, the one accusing the other of abuse will usually be the abuser.

The abusers accusations will generally be believed by most mutual friends, as they present a plausible, if false, scenario they may actually believe.

They have spent most of the relationship isolating and destroying the reputation, credibility and spirit of the victim.

Where the victim, typically, doesn't really understand what was going on so can't present a coherent explanation.

Abuse is not 'a bug in the system', it is 'a feature of the system' that has evolved with Patriarchy and the capitalist, authoritarian system, that almost inevitably evolves into fascism.

Chastity, like chains, whips, sleep deprivation, denial of food, torture, etc. are all potentially coercive techniques can be used for abuse, and frequently are by, governments as much as individuals.

Abusers, whether of children, men, women, seniors, are not exceptional monsters, outliers of humanity.

They are ordinary, typical, people, just devoid of the empathy and imagination they need to realise what they are doing. Or be a sociopath and know but don't care; but that is the exception but not the rule.

Once you understand the pattern and context, it helps see things much more clearly.

 

I think this exactly why my situation is not abuse. We have communicated every step of the way. Yes, she manipulated me into the cage. But since then I simply have told her what worked, and she simply has done "that'. I got manipulated into a world that I love. Is that abuse? My dad forced me to swim, I protested and cried, and now I love it, was that abuse? Of course I have urges and miss erections, PIV and masturbation, but I honestly wouldn't trade what I have for those things, not even close.

We are a bit different than many here, which is why I like to share (perspective). She's never threatened to leave me if I cut the cage off, we just both know that she loves this and would be so disappointed. I recently had a chance, I had the keys in my hand. Did I unlock? No, I was disappointed that she was so careless and told her so. I'm sure I would go back to my old ways if unlocked long enough and I really don't want that temptation.

There was an interesting debate on "Evolving Your Man" a few years ago, where a reader (who had Psych training) was arguing that Emma (also with a degree) could be found guilty of ethics violations for "tricking" men into Chastity since there are neuro drugs/hormones involved, etc. and she was manipulating from a position of professional competence. I disagreed then and still do: the abused has a responsibility to want out (and I am all for programs that teach/offer that). My "abuser" works hard to meet my needs and help me be happy every day. I am fully aware of what I am sacrificing and what I am gaining in return. Even if it is the Dopamine talking, why would I want to be "rescued"?

 

Your situation cannot be abusive. Coercive or not in the beginning (Ps, every man’s dream!) you now embark on this journey consensually…

That’s the only really issue you have that I can find. You want to touch yourself, and yet… it turns out you don’t actually want the opportunity.

I think she has simply unlocked something inside of you you’ve always desired.

 

Indeed possible, but I would argue its something inside most men. I think I have grown through this process to value her happiness and our relationship in ways I didn't understand BC. Some might argue such thinking is trademark of the brainwashed and abused, but I really don't think the truly abused can be so happy. Indeed, isn't that the acid test?

 

well said

 

Very good points all. Our former son in law remarried someone we did not like at all. Three years later, virtually everything I told him would happened happened, She is an uber lazy selfish inconsiderate goldigger. They have a toddler. He is in the military , works 12 hours a day, commutes an hour + each way, then comes home to cook dinner , clean up afterwards, and put the kid to bed. On weekends, he cleans the bathrooms, the house, and does yard work. She naps, and does who knows what other than taking care of the toddler. She's "stressed", so he is looking at getting a maid for her , and some daycare. Like our daughter, she was attractive to the pay, prestige, and security of marrying a military man. Like our daughter, now she is bitching and moaning because he is poised to lose a vacation he can't get approved while her parents will be flying in soon to an adjacent country. As my wife said, she isn't complying because she is going to miss him. She is complaining because she is going to miss her slave boy and have to actually do something.

guess what? He's in a genuine FLR sub / dom relationship, doesn't realize it, and gets None of the benefits we subs get. Yet, as Nicotine states quite clearly, he has a choice. he started by marrying her over our very strong recommendations to slow it down and make sure he understood who he was marrying, a 30 + year old virgin BTW. She is smart, well educated, but no catch in our eyes. He could still divorce her. Sure, he's going to get creamed financially, but he would get his life back. What kind of kid is he going to have with a mother like that. And he's talking about retiring to the country. I told him if he thinks he has no time now, that would be a life I could not imagine, because the would not lift a finger to help.

There are a lot of people out there who are true masochists, but sex has almost nothing to do with it. This is a perfect example . We feel so badly for him, but as my wife said, he is is own worst enemy, as are most people. You Always have choices.