Respect and submission demanded or earned?

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by methos, Jun 5, 2010.

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  1. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    Ok, this has come up several times in the past few weeks, so I thought I'd actually open this up to everyone to see what people think.

    I'm especially interested in the Dom/me's point of view on this question, so please don't hold back in your replies.

    Basically, I want to know if people think it is acceptable for a Dom/me to automatically decide that every submissive, or slave for that matter, should automatically be subservient to them, no matter if they are owned, collared or in a relationship with someone else at the time.

    See, I've come across quite a few Domme's in my time, and only lately am I coming across this "All subs should worship me because I'm a dominant and this is how it is" train of thought. In the past, I've always had a respect/respect relationship with Domme friends, weather I was 'playing' with them or not.

    In my eyes, respect as well as submittance, should be earned and given freely, not demanded by the Domme and expected, just because she is a female dominant, that doesn't automatically mean that ALL slaves and submissives should bow down to them, does it?

    M
     
  2. Mistress Michelle
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    Mistress Michelle Magical Mistress

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    Nice thread methos,

    In My opinion there is a difference in being Respectful and subserviant. All of My properties are expected by Me to be Respectful to any of the Dommes they may come in contact with, they are afterall a reflection of Me and I expect them to be on thier best behaviour at all times. If I find out that they have not been, I deal with them. That being said, just because they are submissives does not mean they are there for anyone to misuse or treat badly. They do not 'submit' to anyone but Me, but they most certainly will always Respect another Domme until given a reason not to. When I am contacted by any submissive, or come in contact with any, I do not demand respect, I expect it. Being polite and respectful is a common everyday natural thing to do, for anyone, so I do not think expecting a submissive to act accordingly is too much to ask.

    Mistress Michelle :spankwhip:
     
  3. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    No, i agree, expecting respect is something completely different to demanding it...

    for example, earlier this week me and my mistress were talking with another Domme who immediately assumed that because I was submissive, I was automatically submissive and subserviant towards her. She openly said that she expected ALL submissives to be submissive towards her automatically, regardless of their status.

    To me, while I'm quite happy to show respect to any and all that I meet and talk to, demanding me to be subservient to her just because I am a submissive to one mistress doesn't feel right to me. I will quite happily show any Mistress or Master respect, but trying to demand it from me and expecting me to automatically be submissive towards her just grated on me.

    And just quickly, I didn't mean that I don't want submissive's comments in this thread, I was just interested in dominant's points of view.

    M
     
  4. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    also, just another point... as you said "When I am contacted by any submissive, or come in contact with any, I do not demand respect, I expect it. Being polite and respectful is a common everyday natural thing to do, for anyone, so I do not think expecting a submissive to act accordingly is too much to ask."

    Is it not also expected for Domme's to show respect towards their submissives? There's a very big different between being dominant to someone and not showing respect to them... my Mistress is always dominant to me, as have all my mistresses have been, but they have also always shown me respect as I have shown them the same...

    M
     
  5. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    Mistress Michelle and i were talking about your question and this is what i said to her.

    i was with him till he threw in the bow down part there is a difference between treating someone with respect and bowing down to them. i think you should always RESPECT a Domme until the do something undeserving of your respect, Even though i myself didn't do that the other day right here at the Mansion, i flew off the handle when the Mistress was just trying to help me. You may wonder how when we are not together. i was told to publicly apologize, then it got marked down in Mistresses book of infractions and i will pay for it again in July when i see her.

    Submittence on the other hand is based in trust and that needs to be earned.

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  6. cockislocked
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    cockislocked Senior Member

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    my view as a sub... i am submissive ONLY to my Mistress. my submission is my gift and my gift alone to give and it is only possible for me to give that gift to someone i trust and respect. Both trust and respect have to be earned. i believe that no Dominant person that has not earnt those two things can or should expect submission from a submissive they have just met.

    As for respect, well repectful behaviour and politeness is just plain good manners, be it a sub addressing a Dom/me or another submissve. The Domme you are referring to in your thread seems not to have understood what a gift submission is and what it means, in my view and personal definition of submission anyway.

    i am exclusively owned by my Mistress and i submit to my Mistress as She is my Wife, my lover and my Godess, it is something She wants from me and something i feel the need to give Her and is a fundamental basis of our marriage and relationship, i am not sure that i can give that submission to anyone else. Therefore i see myself as non submissve to all other Dom/mes in any measure. Any Dom/me giving me a command would be met with a polite refusal and an explanation that They do not own me and would be left in no doubt as to my ownership. In fact i would ask them why They thought They had the right to expect compliance!

    Mistress Michelle is quite correct that a sub is a reflection of their Dom/me and my Mistress expects me to be polite, civil and courteous at all times, which is just plain good manners, but obedience and submission... that is a whole different thing indeed.

    Anyway, thats my view, i guess in summary submission is MOST definitely earned.
     
  7. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    My way of seeing it, is that in the BDSM world, nobody is subject to anybody's chosen role without consent.

    Unless you have an agreement with someone about a power exchange, you are equals and should interact as such. To foist your fantasies on someone else by insisting they interact with you as anything else is disgusting and unflattering, no matter the gender or role.

    If you're a submissive, don't call a domme "Mistress" if she isn't your Mistress. Don't take orders from her, either, unless you have a consensual agreement to do so for all parties involved. If you're a dom, don't call a submissive by a sub name or go giving them orders if they aren't your sub, unless you have some sort of arrangement with their consent and the consent of their partner.

    This is absolutely a serious matter of consent, and these are real people with real rights. So are you.

    In my experience in the past, people who act like that are very quickly ostracized. Sane, healthy, competent kink players understand the importance of consent. You shouldn't be playing with those who don't.

    M
     
  8. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    If i may. IMHO The term Mistress is just a sign of respect just as Ms. Mrs. or Mr. are. i could never imagine addressing any of the Dommes here that have Mistress in their s/n w/o using that title, i.e., Mistress Watchful, what would you address her as Domme Watchful, Ms. Watchful, or just Watchful. Just because you address someone using Mistress does not imply ownership. Just the same the ones that don't have Mistress in their s/n i don't address as Mistress i simply address them by their s/n not that i don't respect them i just figure that is how they want to be addressed. You also will not hear me address Mistress Michelle as "my" Mistress or any other term that would imply that she belongs to me. She is kind enough to share her life with me but she OWNS me not vice versa. Now if, on the other hand you are in a long term exclusive between just the two of you relationship then i can understand the use of "my" Mistress as she and you are exclusive.

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  9. cockislocked
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    cockislocked Senior Member

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    i couldn't have put it better myself! Too Rachel's point, i agree, i would most definitley address someone as Mistress , i just wouldn't submit to Them, again i think it is just politeness, as that is what They wish to be called.

    Great thread BTW methos .
     
  10. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    To answer the other point, I have no problem calling someone Mistress or showing respect, that's just common curtosy... it's when it's automatically demanded of me because i'm submissive sexually... i'm not a 24/7 lifestyle slave, while I do live with my mistress and her sister, another mistress, neither of them treat me like a slave 24/7... it's always consensual and during a scene or play.

    I will show respect to one and all, but when people try treating me like a slave during 'off time' and demand things of me then try and 'dismiss me' with a wave of their hand, thats when i get irate about the attitude of said mistress.

    M
     
  11. mikecb
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    mikecb Member

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    I don't believe in female supremacy or "Dom supremacy" any more than I believe in white supremacy, antisemitism, or homophobia. That's all bigoted in my opinion.

    At all times, I believe in courtesy and kindness. I'll be respectful to anyone - Dom, sub, or anywhere in between. My philosophy is that I'm only submissive to those I choose. It's my choice to exchange that power. If someone not involved in my power exchange expects submissive behavior from me, they are going to be disappointed. They can expect courtesy, friendly behavior and kindness, but if they don't show the same, I have no use for them.

    mikecb
     
  12. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Yes, perfect... that's completely how I see it.

    I wouldn't "expect" anyone to do my bidding unless we had previously spoken about it, and then only once it was agreed with their Mistress also.

    In a FemDom club/scene setting (eg, Pedestal) it is lovely that all the men act subservient, but that's why they are there and that's what they signed up to when they walked through the door! I had a lot of fun reprimanding a submissive for sitting on chair in the Goddess Room, when the signs clearly state not to do so. To be honest, I'm sure he'd done it on purpose to get some attention!

    In a more relaxed club setting I see it more as a friendly atmosphere where everyone is equal unless they have agreed otherwise.

    In a vanilla setting, all bets are off (except with my personal subbie) I wouldn't expect any man to act in any way subservient to me, but if he wants to open the door for me, then that just shows he was brought up with manners!
     
  13. chaste777
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    chaste777 chaste777

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    Hello fellow Kentist Kinkster! :)

    I think respect is important, especially considering how intimate domination and submission is. Plus as a submissive, with a slavish outlook, I am giving up my self control and handing control (via a power exchange) to another person. I might literally be helpless (restrained, gagged, blindfolded). I would hope that the domme in control would show me some respect and admiratiom for giving them my submission. They should not demand it of me!
     
  14. Celtic Queen
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    Celtic Queen Senior Member

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    Good thread.

    I wouldn't expect anyone to be subservient to me outside of my own relationship and scene. It smacks (excuse pun!) of immaturity and insecurity for Dommes / Doms to waft about demanding respect simply because of the personas they adopt rather than build specific relationships. Personally, I would find it a bit intrusive and creepy if a sub unknown to me started bowing and scraping. On the subject of correctly addressing, I can't really get too wound up either way. Mutual respect and courtesy at all times should be the order of the day regardless of role - how that translates into play should be the subject of good communication and negotiation. I wouldn't see it as undermining my own dominance if I was on equal terms with anyone, sub, vanilla or otherwise.
     
  15. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    Thank you to all for your input into this... it's been very interesting to see what other people think of this 'idea' and how they would react in similar situations :D

    M
     
  16. Jabber43
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    Jabber43 Just Another Member

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    Interesting thread. As a switch, I can relate to this from both sides.

    I always expect a certain amount of respect from others, and try to show at least the same amount of respect to others. More respect can be earned. This is the case for me both in vanilla situations and when I an topping or bottoming in a power exchange. Attempts to demand respect from other people are IMHO silly, while attempts to earn respect are natural and good. I could never dominate or submit to somebody I could not respect.

    As for submission, I think this is something that can only be given. Never demanded, taken or forced. While the idea of forced submission may be a great fantasy for some people, in real life it is often an indication of an abusive relationship. As a sub I refuse to play with someone who tries to demand submission from me that I have not already given of my own free will. And as a dom I do not want to play unless the sub has clearly indicated that she is willing to submit to me.

    In the past I have been slightly annoyed a few times when somebody I did not dominate called me "master". Not much, but enough to reply "I am not YOUR master". This is because I think a power exchange relationship is two-way, and I feel like being pressured into dominating somebody I do not know when they call me "master". For the same reason I never call somebody "mistress" unless she agreed to dominate me (and even then only after asking, unless I am sure she would like to be called mistress).
     
  17. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    I agree and I disagree.

    Once a submissive has put themselves in my hands I will demand everything from them. I pride myself in knowing when to stop, and if I misjudge (unlikely, but happens) or they are new (more likely) then they have a slow word and a stop word.

    Once they have submitted they won't be pampered, I won't tell them how grateful I am, I won't stand back in admiration, I won't say "well done", I will demand until I've had enough.

    Respect is a two way street and if you were already in the helpless position, then I'm sorry, I would demand what the hell I wanted... and that's worked so far with all the submissive/masochists/pain sluts I've played with. If I went soft on them, they'd probably think I was vanilla!
     
  18. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    All i will say is HUMMMMMMM.

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  19. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Imagine the scene Rachel

    "Well done, good boy, you look lovely tied up like that, now I'm going to hit you" "was that ok, or was that too hard?" "How much harder would you like it?" "Ok, is this better? No? Oh I'm sorry, shall I do it harder or softer?" "Good, I wouldn't want you to not have the level of pain you want" "Oh, by the way, I really appreciate you being here like this, I feel very fortunate that you would allow me to beat you" "I was thinking next that I would like to possibly, if you don't mind, make love to you with a strap on dildo, would that be ok?"

    Or this....

    Prior to scene, negotiate with subbie previous levels of pain experienced and set slow/stop words. Ask subbie if they would like to experience pegging, and if they are happy to be verbally humiliated.

    At that point, subbie is tied up, becomes helpless and puts themself into my hands.

    "So little slut, you've disappointed me recently... etc etc" whilst warming up through crops, heavier whips and floggers, maybe up to a harder paddle, watching for signs of distress, taking subbie to edge and backing off, taking them there again and backing off. Dropping them into subspace. Observing slow word if needed.

    "I'm supposed to be impressed with your pain threshold am I? Well let's say hello to my little friend" (I've never said that and NEVER will, but you get the gist!) Put on strap on, lube up submissive whilst whispering humiliating things in his ear, fuck him with strap on to a level he's comfortable with.

    Post scene, after cooldown and snuggles, stroking, relaxation, talk about how it went. Thank subbie for his hard work and endurance, make sure he feels special and appreciated, and ask if he would like more playtime. Usually the answer is "can you come back tomorrow?"

    My point to chaste777 was, if you have got to the stage where you are helpless, tied up, etc, you are already in a scene, all negotations have been done, and *I* am in control and will demand non-stop unless I see a problem, tension, distress...

    I'm a Domme and a Mistress, not a nursery maid (unless that's what you want me to be!)
     
  20. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Sorry - my further point is that I have yet to meet a subbie that didn't want to be "pushed" or "demanded" of.

    If they aren't pushed to the edge, they feel let down, like you took it easy on them.

    They put themselves in your care because they want you to safely take them to the brink of safeword and back again.

    I have nothing by respect for my submissives, and they know that, or they wouldn't come back.

    Invariably when the do come back they ask "can we go further down that route... I liked it but I think I can take more".

    If I misinterpreted your Hmmmmmmm rachel, then hopefully this will clarify the situation for others.
     
  21. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    No Mistress Emma you did not.

    Exactly what MM does.

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  22. methos
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    methos Technoslave

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    Actually, this hit the nail on the head so to speak...

    This all came about when I came across mistresses who showed no respect towards submissives in a 'vanilla setting'... No play had been set, no scene, no discussion or anything... she just automatically demanded respect and submission from all male submissives in the area, regardless of what they thought or any other conditions...

    This was the main crux of the discussion, I have no qualms in showing respect for anyone in the scene or anyone in general. Though respect in my eyes should be earned and reciprocated, not automatically demanded with no respect in return from anyone else.

    One good example of this was when I was 'ordered' to help this mistress take some bags around the house, which I was fine to do, helping out is second nature to me. But then once I had placed her bags in her room, she automatically dismissed me with a wave of her hand saying 'you don't have my permission to be here slave'... bare in mind this was in the house i live in, so it really did rub me the wrong way after i had shown her all respect i had and helped her all day as well.

    M
     
  23. GoddessAshton
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    GoddessAshton New member

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    I comepletely agree with Mistress Michelle...If you were to be 'owned' by any Dom just by way of being a subservient man then how would any of Dominant Women keep a faithful and devoted slave? I expect ALL of my slaves to respect ALL women as I do truly believe that We are the superior sex and deserve to be treated as such. With that said, I do not appreciate my slaves being treated poorly by anyone else but ME when they have misbehaved or otherwise earned punishment!

    Long story short...Respect ALL women and SERVE your Owner!

    Goddess Ashton
     
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