I want to get an idea of general views of members here in regards to the role money plays in a mistress/sub relationship. I’m more interested in non married, non professional relationships. For instance an online mistress/sub relationship or perhaps a physical one with a friend or lover. Questions that come to mind are, is it acceptable to demand money as punishment? Should money only come from voluntary gifts by the sub? Is it okay for the mistress to demand money at random from a sub? Is a monthly fee from the sub to the mistress acceptable? Obviously this is a lot of questions I’m asking but I’m curious to hear all thoughts.
Wow. That question is actually pretty complicated. I know findom is a fetish, but I think any purely 'online mistress' scenario where they demand money is rife for abuse. I'll probably get chided for it, but it's my opinion. In relationships where there is a personal, physical interaction it seems a bit safer... at least you can get to know and perhaps develop some well-founded trust in your Mistress. Submissives are easily abused. Be careful out there.
I'm not a big fan of it and I find it's very rare to find a Mistress in this scenario who has good motives. I feel like many if not most of them see their online subs as $ubs, not partners.
Transfer of money is not interesting to me, but if you find it a turn on and can handle it financially, then it is your relationship. For me, using money as a punishment just seems shallow but everyone has their own personal path. Good luck and enjoy.
Well, as you might guess this was related to a real life situation. I just broke up with my online mistress. I asked her to agree on a contract. She acted like it was perfectly normal and expected that I would pay her. I don't know enough to know if that's true, but from what you all have been saying it sounds like it's not always the case. You might be wondering why I didn't ask for a contract sooner. I originally met this girl because I bought socks from her as I have a sock fetish. I didn't expect to do anything more than buy the socks, but she was very outgoing and chatted me up and we emailed frequently as friends for over a year. She asked me if I was interested in slavery early on but I said I wasn't. Somehow I got to the point where I was but it just evolved very slowly and gradually that I became her slave. And somehow we just didn't discuss it. If we had it would have avoided a lot of problems I think. I offended her multiple times throughout my slavery to her and she was always demanding gifts in addition to punishment for my offences. If we had agreed on a contract and price and I had heard how much she wanted, which was too much for me, ahead of time I think I would not have agreed to be her slave in the first place. This has all been far more of a learning experience than I ever imagined. Parts of it were fun but there was so much more of the experience that felt like a burden to me. I went through great efforts for her. Spent a lot of time talking to her and working to fulfill tasks for her. But she told me that it was work for her and I couldn't expect her to do it for free. But, what I never said to her was, it was work for me too. In the last few days before we broke off my slavery she wasn't talking to me because she was mad at me. I actually got a lot of personal stuff done in those days that I wouldn't have had time for if she was talking to me like normal. The incident she was mad at me for was an incident of using the word silly which in my location has the connotation of being playful and loving in the right context, I meant it in a flirtatious playful way. I tried explaining this to her but she wouldn't listen. Eventually she did say that she had read about it and she did now understand that it meant a different thing for me. But she said I still owed her a debt for this in addition to punishment. All my offenses there was always a debt to be paid off, and I offended her so frequently. I understand her point of view that she deserves payment for putting in the time, but I can't help but think about if I owned a slave girl. I'm owning her, isn't it my responsibility to provide for her? I'm the one using her. I know things get more nuanced than that but I do think it would be true. If she wanted to give me a gift for Christmas or Valentine's or something, which my ex mistress also expected, that's fine but that's totally voluntary and that wouldn't be a part of the contract. Is there perhaps a double standard? As a male slave for a mistress I was expected to pay, but as a male owner of a slave I feel I would incur expenses on her behalf also in order to take care of her. If I'm going to use her and play with her and give her orders and punishments I would feel responsible to cover any expenses involved in those activities. If I own a pet, I pay for the well being and living of my pet... I don't know, I understand the other side though because it is work for the owner and in a human relationship there are different factors at play. But I feel the point still has some weight regardless. Well, my rant is over, curious to hear more thoughts about this...
It sounds a bit like a FinDom situation. I think part of the issue could also be that online there are probably a lot more male subs than female dommes and so many dommes can and will use money to filter down the amount and make a living. I think you did the right thing to call it off because I think it would always have been the case of having to pay tributes all the time and it sounds like that is not what you were after.
My opinion: the exchange of money utterly reverses the dynamic. If I am paying, it's ME who is in charge. Even if I paid to have my butt spanked. In the long distant past, I've paid for some really kinky stuff. Almost boring. But just one time a gal I was infatuated with gave me a serious swat on the butt. I can still masturbate to that erotic event to this day. Also in the waaayyyyy long ago time I saw this gal for happy ending (VERY happy endings) massages. I always gave a nice tip. I probably saw her two or three dozen times. She allowed me to do EVERYTHING. On ONE occasion, I legitimately forgot my wallet. I profusely apologized and said I will immediately go home to retrieve it. I never saw a woman so pissed off. That was that, said the Cat in the Hat. That ended my dillusion. And I now feel that "pro domme" is just a euphemism. (as an aside, I have nothing against a pro domme being one.....I am talking about the power exchange dynamic, not the ethics.)
That sounds like a terrible chore, not a relationship. Someone like that is interested in money and nothing more.
this is a really fraught area. Some guys get off on findom, and good luck to them. Probably most don't. Therefore you have to negotiate some way through the problem of rewarding a mistress for time/consideration etc. It needs to be agreed upfront, if it isn't to turn nasty. you're probably well out of this one. Good luck in future.
Well, so you've just learned why relationship with a paid dome is a waste of time. At least if you're interested in a geniune relationship and not just doing some kinky stuff to you as long as you pay for it and pretending it's a relationship. Because she most likely understood it all very well. She just decided it's a good oportunity to make you pay. As - i'm sure - you've already figured out yourself her primary concern is to make money on some naive submissive guys. So her behaviour makes perfect sense in that context. Does it mean all paid domes are like that? I assume not, but you're going to have a hard time trying to find an honest one. Even more so if you'd like a findom one. There's a lot of women who wouldn't be interested in flr or femdom at all if not for the easy money - and that's why they require submissive guys to pay even though it deosn't make much sense if you think about it. Even more so, as the very same "ladies" who require male slaves to pay will take female slaves for free. At least that's something i see quite a lot. --- So... if you ask me, you're better off finding a nice, average girl interested in flr and femdom and giving her some time to grow. At least that's what i've done and i'm very happy i did --- To be clear: I don't have anything against paid domes per se. But i have quite a lot against sociopaths, which a lot of - if not most - paid domes happen to be. But in the end it's just my personal opinion - if someone's happy, who am i to judge
Thank you this is along the lines of everything I was thinking. I didn't realize though that some mistresses require only men to pay and not females... If that's true it really does scream double standard. If I was more wealthy it would all have been fine I'm sure but I'm not and so I had to end it. I hadn't even heard of findom until I posted this thread so it goes without saying I have no interest in it. In a fairytale world I would find a financially stable mistress to own me and keep me in her home. I envy all people here who are married to their mistress.
The fact that she didn't propose a contract laying out the financials of it immediately should have been a red flag to me...
It's crazy though because she talked to me as a friend for over a year before I was her slave. All I did was buy like 25 dollar socks from her every couple months or so.... It's crazy to think it was all some elaborate scheme for her to make some extra cash. I think in reality it was a bit of both though. I do think she had a genuine liking for me at least as a friend. Obviously you can't know all our conversations but I do believe she did care about me in some way on some level. It wasn't all about money for her. But in the end her need for money was just out of sync with my needs.
I'd say your first warning - maybe not red, but let's say an orange one - should be when you first met her. In the grand scheme of things girls aren't very outgoing, chatty or even friendly towards submissive guys. So if you meet one which is, eight out of ten times you're in trouble This isn't really that hard. Common misconception i hear a lot is that there is no dominant women to be found. There's more than enough, but most women don't know what flr or femdom is or how it works - and even if they have heard something it's mostly some imaginary nonsense they've heard from a biased friend who knows even less then they do. So if you have enough patience and emotional inteligence to show a woman how beautiful flr/femdom is, you're going to be suprised how quickly it's going to resonate with her nature
If there's strong interest in money exchange from a least one partner in any sort of relationship, that should be negotiated early and thoroughly. There are people of various genders who are interested in financial domination / findom and, if it's consensual and negotiated, the more power to them. I've read a few articles about it, and from what I understand when it's done consensually and is an interest of all parties concerned, the amounts exchanged are generally reasonable based on what the giver has to spare: if they want it to pinch, that's up to them. These are relationships that can last for years because there's a mutual interest and no "Surprise! You owe me $400!" It is my understanding that someone who can afford to randomly fork over large sums of money is also someone who can afford to make sure that they get every cent back from the "recipient" any time they want to. So ... yeah, I'm not sure of how many insanely rich people have a financial domination kink, but maybe that particular article is still being researched.
I'm sorry I missed this thread when it was originally discussed in February, as this issue resonates with me. My interpretation of the OP's story was that he (sort of) got pulled into a type of findom rather unawares, or at least maybe it started small but the 'Mistress' worked out she could ramp up the financial asks over time. Either way, it sounds like he was taken advantage of and if the 'Mistress' was expecting regular payments, not unreasonable for him to ask for a contract. Overall, the advice to 'take a wide berth' sounds very sensible. I agree the OP's story is a lesson to be very careful and have clear agreements from the start, but I don't think it follows such shady practices extend to all genuine pros. My KH is a professional Mistress, who has a very clear payment structure. Some pros in the UK go as far to have an itemised menu of services with prices. I worry about the number of amateur 'Mistresses' who jump on the findom bandwagon though and practically extort potentially vulnerable people, and I've posted before my thoughts on minimising those risks. It does go both ways though. My Mistress has shared accounts with me of men who message her constantly to set up a session, then never actually go through with it, or people who have one session only and then feel they are entitled to very regular online contact after that, eventually turning abusive. There will be unscrupulous 'pros' out there but equally some very unreasonable clients (n.b. I'm not at all saying the OP was one). The other question raised that sparked my interest is whether paid femdom puts the slave in charge. In my experience it's a bit of yes and no. My Mistress would not have made this her career if she didn't enjoy it, and there are certain aspects of play she enjoys very much - which aren't necessarily top of my list of kinks but as a sub I find sessions flow better when she can act out some of her preferences (and should add none of these go beyond my 'hard limits'). But in other ways I am in charge. My Mistress asks me in advance which particular kinks or fantasies I want to explore in a particular session, and she designs our time around that. She's told me that when a client says 'do whatever you like Mistress' it's more stressful for her, and there's such a wide range of BDSM practices she could use, she has no idea if the client will actually enjoy it. And she does care about clients having an enjoyable time, at the very least there's a chance of repeat business! Finally, I identify with the OP's statement that he envies people on CM who are married to mistresses. I do too to an extent. But having read so many accounts of keyholding, femdom, D/s, FLR with wives from others, it seems much more nuanced, and with a wide variety of different dynamics and 'power balances'. Based on my personal experience, I think it's possible to have a rewarding and therapeutic D/s play relationship with a pro, but it will never be a substitute for relationship that's founded on (forgive the term) 'true love'.