Feminization, chastity and gender

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008.

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  1. PuppyMastersPet
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    #1 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008
    Recently I have found myself thinking about chastity and feminization, the question has often been asked how are to two connected. This question had me wondering so I decided I would do some research into chastity and gender identity to see if there was any link at all.

    What I found during my research was not so much of an answer rather, it felt as if I had opened Pandoras Box. For something that begun as trivial became much more and ended up with me reading pages and pages of text.

    Even after all the reading I am still no expert so have decided not to right a factual account and call it fact rather my take on what I have read. I will also more than likely refer to myself in order for me to be able to relate the topics.

    My grammar may not be great and you may disagree with some or all of what you read but please stick with it. I wouldnt have posted this unless I though it wasnt of any use to someone.
     
  2. PuppyMastersPet
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    #2 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008
    Part ONE Feminization

    Feminization as most of you will know is the act of transforming a male into a female by using clothing and or makeup. This may be voluntary or ‘forced’ feminization. I say forced but in most cases there is usually an underlying desire for the male to wear woman’s clothing but not always.

    Most feminized males would associate themselves with being a sissy or sissy maid and would wear frilly clothing and underwear. The sissy maid would usually do maid related tasks such as cleaning and cooked tasks usually associated with being tasks undertaken primarily by females.

    Most sissies would agree that dressing in such a way voluntarily or otherwise is highly erotic but the clothing my also bring comfort to the wearer. This is where feminization can become confusing for some, as dressing in female clothing is not always as simple as being erotic (Otherwise know as Transvestic fetishism)

    Transvestic fetishism (TF) is the act of dressing in clothes of the opposite sex for sexual purposes. Usually a male with an interest in TF would be heterosexual and would not necessarily have any form of body dysphoria and would dress in clothing that would be deemed sexy such as stockings or lingerie. Transvestic fetishists normally dress in private and have no desire to become female.

    Not all sissies are straight forward transvestic fetishists though. Some such as myself as well as gaining sexually excitement from wearing woman’s clothing may also feel comfortable and more at home within the female form. The sexual aspects may come from the feeling of having more confidence when dressed or the fact that the sissy may be being ‘forced’ by their dominant partner.
     
  3. PuppyMastersPet
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    #3 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008
    Part TWO Gender Identity

    Most people would think that Gender Identity is quite straight forward. You’re either male or female in either body or form, some may feel they are in the wrong body ad are therefore transgender, simple right? Not as I’ve come to realise.

    Long before I was place in chastity and even longer before I ever considered becoming a sissy I knew that I liked wearing woman’s clothing. I felt a lot more confident and usually I just felt content. I don’t though feel as if I am transgender although I do sometimes have strong desires to have a more permanent female form.

    I think quite a few sissies would share similar experiences to myself. I have spent a long time thinking about my own identity and have now come to find that there is a whole spectrum gender identities and groups.

    To begin with when I became a sissy I worried that becoming a sissy meant that I was simply aroused by wearing woman’s clothing but I knew this not to be true so felt as if I was in a some sort of gender limbo.

    There are many who consider themselves to be part of a third gender people also know as Genderqueer or intergender. Most in this group dress somewhere in the middle though and don’t polarize themselves to one gender. They prefer to stay somewhere in the middle

    So to say there are 2 genders doesn’t cover the feelings of many but saying there is a third gender only server to group the people who don’t feel they fit into either gender. There are those who may see themselves as androgyne or have no set sex. This is different from intergender.

    There are so many shaded in the gender spectrum that only each individual person will know where they fit. I’m quite happy to Master’s sissy and wear female clothing, frillies, stockings and all. But I also think I would see myself as androgyne when in normal vanilla life as I don’t feel completely masculine or feminine. Striking a balance and figuring out your own identity can be a struggle but being comfortable with yourself and knowing yourself is so important.
     
  4. PuppyMastersPet
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    #4 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008
    Part THREE Chastity

    Chastity is fairly easy to explain from a BDSM point of view. In most cases it refers to a male who whishes for their sexual freedom to be taken away from them, either by using a chastity device in order to stop the male touching his penis or by way of a set of rules banning the male from giving himself pleasure.

    In most cases the male will choose chastity but not in all cases, sometimes it may be a requirement of a dominant partner that the submissive male should give up all rights to gaining sexual pleasure such as an orgasm.

    Most males who have been put in chastity by there partners are usually submissive males who have taken on being the role of slave or are simply submissive to their partners. Chastity is important in asserting control as the penis can be a symbol of male power so for the power to be taken away the penis should become redundant or less important to the male.

    Chastity can be a good way of keeping a submissive male compliant as the longer the sub has to go without orgasm the more likely he will be to follow orders. Denying a sub orgasm will usually make him more and more sexual aroused the longer he has to wait. Chastity can be very frustrating but can also be a real thrill for the person in chast.

    I found that the more frustrated I become the more open to suggestion I would become. The sub in chastity may find themselves doing things that the they would not normally consider and may find themselves aroused by being humiliated in various ways.
     
  5. PuppyMastersPet
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    #5 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 29, 2008
    In Conclusion

    For me to write some kind of all encompassing conclusion would be a bit conceited but you have come this far so I will try and explain my own take on the link between chastity and feminization.

    There are several conclusions that can be drawn if you take into account what you have read

    As explained before chastity can lead to a male being more aroused this in turn usually makes the chast sub more open to suggestion and more open to activities usually regarded as taboo. If you take this observation and then add in some underlying Transvestic fetishism interest then you could easily see how I male sub could be persuaded or “forced” to become a sissy.

    If though the sub has already shown an interest in dressing in female clothing it may be the sub that craves to be dresses and feminized by their dominant partner. No persuasion is needed therefore you would assume that no chastity is required. It’s not as simple as that though.

    For those who desire to be feminized, chastity and long term denial only serves to increase feminine desires. Orgasm can often lead to a drop in the desire to be feminized that is not to say though that this assumes that the desire is only sexually. There must be more to it, possibly hormones but I was unable to find a link with hormones during my search, that doesn’t mean hormone are not a factor though.

    For the sub who desires to be feminized chastity can also have other uses. If the desire to become feminized becomes strong it can be difficult for a sissy to see a penis dangling between their legs. In these cases a chastity device can help the sub feel more feminine special if a belt device such as a neo steel is used.


    I’m not expecting everyone to agree with what I’ve written but I do hope that it may help people in a similar situation to me who were confused about their feelings.

    Please feel free to add your own take on feminization and chastity. Comments are always welcome. Don’t be too harsh though, I still have a lot to learn regardless of all the research I’ve done.
     
  6. imbriannagirl
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    #6 imbriannagirl, Dec 30, 2008
    Hello Kris. i enjoyed reading your thoughts on the feminized male and how chastity plays an integral role in continuing to push the male deeper and deeper into their feminine role. It's a pretty simple process really, when you view it as a spiral, both for the Dominant, as well as for the feminized male.

    It's likely a pretty good assumption to say that males who are currently undergoing the feminization process from their Dominant, were prone to the following cycle when they were unowned:

    1. Being set off by just about anything feminine which in turn causes arousal.

    2. Arousal turns to dressing in panties, bra's, hose, etc, etc.

    3. After a short while, they cannot help themselves, and masturbate to orgasm.

    4. The arousal disappears, guilt of varying degrees sets in almost immediately after orgasm, resulting in the removal of all feminine clothing.

    5. Hours/days later, the feminine desires slowly begin to return, and the cycle begins anew.

    Now, enter the Dominant, who wants only one thing: CONTROL of the submissive in order to not only satisfy their own desires, but in order to deepen and continue that control. Taking the cycle above, insert enforced chastity BEFORE #1, and there is no end. It turns into an endless spiral downward, deeper and deeper into their own frustrated desires, ultimately becoming more and more feminine... and more and more obedient to their owner.

    i'll preface the next comment by stating that in no way would i ever complain about my Mistress or any other Mistress out there for doing what i'm about to explain. When our owner allows us to enjoy a pleasureable release (orgasm), it effectively slows our training in the grand scheme of things. Now i'm SURE every Dominant reading this already KNOWS this fact, and likely have their own reasons for allowing orgasm. Personally, i strongly believe that the feminized male should be permanently restricted from enjoying orgasms like their owner enjoys, both to clearly delineate their respective roles, but as well as to further the feminization.

    A feminized male who is kept permanently chaste (coupled with monthly or bi-monthly milking to maintain proper health), while their owner enjoys as many orgasms as they want, will clearly understand that sexual release is reserved for their owner, and not for themselves, thus continually reinforcing their role. If the male is cuckolded, you get into a completely different level of submission, which is not the topic of this particular conversation, so i will let others decide to bring it up if it's of interest.

    Of course, this does not mean that the feminized male should not experience sexual PLEASURE. On the contrary, the more sexual stimulation the owner can provide, the more compliant the male will be. Some of you may know of a Ms Robin in the US who has a sissified male as her slave. In conversations we've shared, she indicated that she would sexually torment him for "between 30 minutes and 4 hours per day, every day". She even mentioned that he would have anal e-stim on his prostate on many occasions, randomly going through various cycles of torment. Did i mention that she only allowed her maid to experience an orgasm about once or twice per YEAR??? (She would milk her maid about once per month)

    i've really rambled quite a bit here, and i do apologize if i have bored anyone with my words. My intention was to point out that it's simply a vicious cycle downward for the male into submission, and upward into more and more complete control for the owner. The more we're kept chaste and tormented, the more obedient and pliable we become, going ever deeper the longer it continues.

    Okay, i'll stop. LOL

    i sincerely hope everyone has enjoyed their holidays and are well.

    Thanks again Kris for bringing this topic up!!

    brianna :)

    p.s. i'm glad my Mistress doesn't read this forum. LOL
     
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  7. lauren1fem
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    #7 lauren1fem, Dec 30, 2008
    Thanks for starting this thread Kris. I want to respond more fully at some point, but my head is spinning from this idea. For some reason there's a chicken-egg conundrum for me with this question: What came first and is it always that way for everyone or just me? My answer to that is: the desire to be feminized came first, but there's feelings underneath that too... Sigh

    If you've read some of my journey you'll know that I've dived deep into feminization for an extended period of time (for me) and now that I've come up for air, so to speak, I'm having a lot of feelings that I didn't expect from all this and it all seems tied to the underlying theme of your post.

    Brianna's comment (BTW: love the avatar) about permanent chastity is a compelling one and certainly is a theme that has been explored in fantasy by myself and lots of fiction that I have read too - the threat of permanent chastity - lots of strong erotic feelings are stirred by that - which of course could NEVER be satisfied... again with the conundrum.

    So I'm stuck here, but have something really cool to think about for the next few days. Thanks... until I have a more complete response.
     
  8. imbriannagirl
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    #8 imbriannagirl, Dec 30, 2008
     
  9. sophia
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    #9 sophia, Dec 30, 2008
    When i was younger i immediately, within 30 seconds, removed the female clothes after orgasm. Now i just keep them on, they are more comfortable and I like the feeling. Softer. Maybe i have learned that i don't need to feel guilty?

    How feminized can one be with too much body hair, face looking masculine?
    Broad hands and fingers with oil from machines? When i was 20-30 and maybe 40, i guess it was a very special fantasy... (It still is)

    Strange, when i was a bit more successful in loking feminine i felt guilt after orgasm. Now when it is too late to look good i continue enjoy the feeling of female clothes? How stupid (me, not the clothes)! I understand nothing.

    I agree with both Imbrianna and Slave_Kris. You are both right. But it seems that when getting older the spiral is not exactly the same? At least not for me.

    I wonder why it changes over time? Is it lower levels of testosteron? Is it a more relaxed attitude? Have i accepted that i am a man and that makes it easier to feel feminine? Is it the fact that i am allowed by my wife to wear female clothes, and she likes it?

    My wife does not speak english, so she can't answer by herself. But i think she likes the control of chastity, for the female clothes i think it is that i become like a little girl compared to her, THE WOMAN. She is strong and i am weak. (She is actually very strong physically, stronger than many men)

    In our daily life i am the "normal" man. In the evenings and weekends, when we are alone we have completely different roles. And rules...
    Guess maybe i wanted to say that i don't try to understand, but just accept instead. It is much easier.
     
  10. imbriannagirl
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    #10 imbriannagirl, Dec 30, 2008
     
  11. PuppyMastersPet
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    #11 PuppyMastersPet, Dec 30, 2008
    thanks everyone for your great comments. Wasn't sure how the post would be taken. Glad there is still plenty of room for debate.
     
  12. ladylionzsissy
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    ladylionzsissy male chastity sissymaid

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    #12 ladylionzsissy, Dec 30, 2008
    although i've not spoken to MsRobin, i understand how Her interactions with Her sissy are intended to keep sissy 'under Her thumb.' sometimes i think (but don't know for certain) that a near-optimum way to train a sissymaid is to maintain a consistent pattern of unique stimulation that only the owner can provide so that the sissy becomes quite dependent.

    i hope this makes some sense; it's 5:30 AM and i'm a little incoherent!
     
  13. Miss D
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    #13 Miss D, Dec 30, 2008
    Well gurls... I have written about these issues several times and I am pleased to see in each of your writings the various aspects of what I have talked about - chastity is a feminization tool - Control is what a Domme craves - feminization combined with chastity is a spiral - effective and certain.

    As was noted - age does play a part in the mix. The letdown following a release does recede as the femmed male ages. Of course, that is no reason to allow unrestricted releases but it does make life a little easier when a release is granted.

    Cuckolding was mentioned - I believe gurls are exceptionally good candidates for cuckolding - as a group they respond so nicely to it. I know many gurls who literally beg and plead to be cuckied - in some cases because they wish to provide a gurly sexual function for their Mistress' boyfriend and for others because it asserts their role and gender in the most manifest way possible - femmed and watching while Mistress is pleasured by a real male.

    All in all gurls - I think you all get the idea - why your femming is so important. Why it is so attractive to you - so addictive... Don't try to fight it gurls - you will surrender eventually anyway - you know it and I know it.

    By the way - I do highly recommend the androgynous look for gurls in social situations such as work (pantied and bra'd underneath naturally). Very quickly, the fear of discovery is replaced with the need to feel the comfort of your gurly clothes.

    :smilies_xxx02:
     
  14. Miss D
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    #14 Miss D, Dec 30, 2008
    Here's a link gurls - about why you need to corsetted and heeled - I don't know how long it will last though...

    the stunning Dita Von Teese
     
  15. countachcx
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    #15 countachcx, Jan 16, 2009
    Well, I must admit I am more willing to be feminized since being chaste, and I agree that after a period of orgasm and stimulation denial I do get even more submissive. The desire to be feminized was there, but not so strong before. She does let me wear lingerie to bed sometimes with her however, I know she wouldn't want to sissify me on a more regular basis given the nature of our relationship. She wants a man, but at the same time gets to control all of my orgasms.
     
  16. Jimi123
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    #16 Jimi123, Jan 16, 2009
    Are there males who deep down are at the core simply transexual and ashamed at their needs / desires?

    So much so that when a dominant female comes along making it not only possible to live fem they are more then willing to do whatever it takes to be "made to do so?" Even if this "making" is deep down their fondest desire?

    As to cuckolding I agree with the point that this opens more chances to move closer to the fem world that some ?? maybe dream of. Once their Mistress has brought a bull into the bed room the point of being the sissy can allow them to enjoy "some" kind of sexual play that they might not feel "ok" with - without the Dom Wife forcing them to do so?

    My question is why not take this to the next level? Why not go on Anti-Androgens, take Estrogen and start working with a doctor to obtain GRS surgery? I've wondered if the dom wife were to insist on this how many subs would be overjoyed to go forward?
     
  17. countachcx
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    #17 countachcx, Jan 16, 2009
    Well, for me, occasional crossdressing is fun for me, but if she wanted me to be a transexual, I'd definitely not do it @_@
    but if the guy is at core a transexual, then they definitely should go all the way, I agree. Skrew society, there ought to be no shame, that would be a wasted life to not do what you want to do if you can.
    As far as cucking, I don't really understand it, so no opinions here.
     
  18. PuppyMastersPet
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    #18 PuppyMastersPet, Jan 16, 2009

    There are submissives for which having a dominant partner takes away the guilt from enjoying kinky pleasures so its quite possible that a person could feel less guilty about dressing in womans clothing if they were forced by their dominant partner.
     
  19. PuppyMastersPet
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    #19 PuppyMastersPet, Jan 16, 2009
    Thats where it can start to get confusing for sissies and people with gender confusion. Its not as black and white as being either male or female. Thats why I specifically added a section on gender to try and explain that there is a gray area that many people fit may into such as androgyne (no sex) to gender-queer (both sexes) that not being the scientific word but couldnt remember it. Only each person will know deep down where they fit in.

    I often get very strong female desires and often think about the anti-androgyne route but without understanding myself first I could be making a big mistake. Its best not to rush ahead when the desires strongest, especially if chastity and denial have any effect on you particular state of mind.
     
  20. Jimi123
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    #20 Jimi123, Jan 16, 2009
    Thanks for your replies and sorry to come in here sounding like a shrink. I came on this site some time ago because if you type "STRAPON" this was one of the links. I find it very very interesting to say the least even if being locked up is not my cup of tea. *At least not so far!

    I agree that letting sexual feeling direct you to do un-reversable stuff like using Hormones or Surgery is a poor idea. I do think (Just my 2 cents worth) that for some folks who are feeling relief to be forced to be fem might be worth having a long talk with a gender therapist.

    The other side of the question is what is the reaction of the Mistress in this type of situation if the sub does want to follow through with gender therapy? Will they be upset that the play has just gone too far? Happy because they have sexual feeling for the Fem sub?

    I think its all very interesting.

    I had a female friend who was interested in Bondage and her desire was to be "forced" to have sex. She had a lot of guilt over her needs and being tied up and "F"ed was her solution. I always thought it would be better to be able to get past that and just be ok with wanting sex but... Not very kinky or creative. I mean as an alternative or for fun ok sure why not? But if its the only way? Humm... no thanks.

     
  21. dar
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    #21 dar, Jan 31, 2009
    >When i was younger i immediately, within 30 seconds, removed the female
    >clothes after orgasm. Now i just keep them on, they are more comfortable
    >and I like the feeling. Softer. Maybe i have learned that i don't need to feel
    >guilty?

    For me it is very simply, "I feel emotionally 'ok'" about the whole thing now. No guilt. God made me perfectly... just unusally perfect (for some special mistress or perhaps master).

    --dar
     
  22. slave-in-chains
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    #22 slave-in-chains, Jan 31, 2009
    personally, for me.. chastity has nothing to do with feminisation, sissyboy or any other form of becoming a woman.

    For me it is giving myself to my Mistress / keyholder... because I like to give away the power.

    i am wearing the cd6k now to find out what is the best fit, monday it will be locked and my KH has the keys. THAT is something deep for me.

    but i was wondering the same thing, seems a lot of sissyboys are on the chastity forums and I wondered why :)
     
  23. chastityslavejohn
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    chastityslavejohn Mistress Irianna's pet

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    #23 chastityslavejohn, Jan 31, 2009
    there are many of us out here like me that are not into feminization. i think maybe we're just not as vocal as the others...maybe because we're not as in touch with our feminine side...hence the difference.
     
  24. PT109
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    #24 PT109, Jan 31, 2009
    What a great conversation. Here's a different twist. I think a big part of being submissive is that the submissive can maximize his or her pleasure. Why, or how? Well, the submissive is in a constant state of extended sexual desire. We all know that for a male that feeling is far more pleasant (and pleasure giving) than a brief snorting burst of orgasmic release. For me cross dressing is a prolonged thrill, lasting for several hours, while my pleasure builds and extends itself. Ordinary sex lasts only a few minutes for me, maybe 10 or 20 minutes of foreplay followed by 5 or 10 minutes of penetrative sex with a 10 or 15 second orgasm. When I was younger each period of cross dressing would end in an orgasm, very much like ordinary sex. Eventually I managed to give up the orgasms and now the sessions end with milking and no orgasm. The same is true of D/s sessions with my mistress. After the milking the pressure is off so to speak and I can continue with ordinary activities- not let down in the way that orgasms make you feel. By the way, the guilt factor is way overblown I think. The body naturally needs to find a way to motivate a person back towards doing something constructive, rather than lying about playing with itself or indulging in extended sexual activities when all it really takes to make a baby is a quick shot of sperm. Don't forget our bodies were "designed" a long time a go when surviving was the most important activity we were going to be involved in.
    Whether it's guilt we feel or just a sharp let down in sexual motivation and interest, the result is the same. The body is telling us, "Get back to business kid, there's lions to kill, wood to gather," and so on.
    Now, of course, there are no lions to kill and many of us are free to fiddle around and play with our sexuality for extended periods of time. It doesn't make sense to get too far into analyzing this behavior because it doesn't really fit into the evolutionary trends of our ancestors. It's a new trend, not because we have changed as a specie but because we are exploring new territory here. In the past when people needed to work very hard to stay alive (not that long ago really) even though you might not be totally male or female you made a choice and stuck with it. There wasn't much time for looking over the fence and envying the nice silkies that women got to wear.
    Doctors in those days were willing to make the decision for a lot of the "in-betweeners" by whacking off a shortish penis and calling the baby a girl or in some cases not whacking off a particularly large clitoris and calling the girl a boy with poorly developed balls.

    Sorry I digressed. Once a submissive male learns that this extended pleasure is better in the long run he may also realize that this is similar to the ordinary pleasure that a female experiences. The extended pleasure that a female feels during long periods of foreplay, the longer and less precipitous orgasms she feels and the long periods of warm fuzzy after glow now become available to the male. When he chances on to an understanding and knowledgeable dominant who can "train" him, his experience actually goes way beyond that so that most of the hours of his life can be spent in this "unnatural" state of permanent arousal. Now we're bordering on religious ecstasy
    Think of all the struggles made by many of the religious saints- always struggling with themselves in search of higher bliss, doubting their worth and feeling abandoned by G (I know we're not supposed to discuss religion and I'm almost finished here) when they couldn't find this bliss- feeling guilty and unworthy much of the time. But the bliss they sought was worth the struggle to them. So, even after we have found our bliss and feel like it is a permanent state, we will eventually have set backs, and feel a little guilt or disappointment that we have spent so much time indulging ourselves in our quest to be feminine or a slave or a maid or all of the above, and find ourselves without a KH or mistress for some reason or other, or our body changes its priorities for some reason (psychological, work related or just plain unknown) or our spouse is just "putting up with" our kink and playing along to keep the peace.
     
  25. PuppyMastersPet
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    PuppyMastersPet Long term member

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    #25 PuppyMastersPet, Jan 31, 2009

    Oddly enough I wouldn't consider myself a sissy any more. I thought I was when I wrote this post but now I've had a complete change. I still have sissy thoughts sometime which are completely guilt free but now that I've taken on a new role Master is a lot more comfortable and as a result more dominant so giving up sissyhood has been worthwhile for me.

    Even though I wouldn't consider myself a sissy I still enjoy reading post by other sissies and I am going to remain as vocal as every. You do not have to be a sissy or be into forced fem to have a say within the site or even to give a point of view on chastity and it's effects.
     
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