Covid-19 and Life

Discussion in 'Off topic discussions' started by Hubby&Missy, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. L-u-c-y
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    How Pfizer blackmails countries for shots.

     
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  2. Her Dividend
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  3. L-u-c-y
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    That's great, but even without a vaccine 99.8% of people survive.

    How effective is the vaccine, 90%?

    So it would increase a 99.8% survival rate to 99.9%.
     
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  4. borbulls1961
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    borbulls1961 Madame Vanilla's property

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    This is an incredible thread!
    I realise that @L-u-c-y is anti-covid vax, and is blowing her horn here, actually more so than for on-topic stuff!
    Well, kudos to @L-u-c-y , but she must let others disagree with her without insult.
    I disagree.
    But I really dont think Im like that nasty fella who Rose was gonna marry in Titanic.
     
  5. L-u-c-y
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    If only it was possible for people to disagree with so called anti vaxxers without insulting them, calling them stupid etc.
     
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  6. TheCrow
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    "disagreeing" on topic is possible on disputable issues. I come from a country where elementary education on vaccine mathematics were given at elementary schools. It might be not the case of UK, as former capitalist countries usually had lower standards than communist countries for elementary education. For example, it was pointed out that any vaccine is theoretically inconvenient for an individual, as one would prefer to avoid all possible side effects, while making sure everybody else is vaccinated. In the best interest of society it is the opposite, to vaccinate everybody even if one dies and it would be predictable from the start. Yet, we do not discuss whether sinus should be called sinus or serpent function just somebody has got his own idea. Ignoring human knowledge is called ignorance, and undermining vaccination effect for entire population is social sabotage. There is little room for "nice discussion" there.
    It was also pointed out that any vaccine is worthless unless given, usually very high percentage, of population is vaccinated. If you allow for disabled/vulnerable/alergenic to vaccine persons to avoid vaccine it is OK, but if you throw in anybody that has his own selfish theory to get into play, you are literally either depriving entire populace from achieving minimal vaccination ratio for the vaccine to be efficient, or giving alternative of forcing vaccinating everybody including those would would die with high probability of it. Or to let the disease continue.
    In short, you can have your discussion as long as you are either a specialist or you are a stance that is not harmful to society because of your ignorance. This is why there is no room for discussion. Judges do not discuss with burglars, neither parents with their immature kids on key issues etc.
     
  7. L-u-c-y
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    So, you will do anything an "expert" tells you?

    What if it goes against everything you believe in?

    What if all your senses are saying it's wrong?

    What if 51% of the experts say it's the right thing to do and 49% say it's wrong?

    What if you agree with the 49%? Are you going to go against the majority?
     
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  8. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Someday....Even a chaste man can go to the moon! So long as he's vaccinated. Don't want to get moon people sick.
     
  9. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Fully agree! Utter cowards. How many millions have swallowed the "it's safe and effective line"? Probably the same ilk that like to repeat the 'as long as you get milked once a month" crowd.
     
  10. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Dude! You are throwing shade at Lucy for being impolite? Perhaps scrolling up a few pages will help you gain some perspective.

    Notice that we who see through the garbage don't have a name for y'all who can't. It's just not who we are.

    I can easily come up with a few though: (not calling out any individual....especially you, since I don't know you.)

    Sheeple
    Pussies
    Guys who really suck at science who yell the word "science"
    Lemmings
    Useful Idiots (coined by joe stalin)
     
  11. Her Dividend
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    What aboutism is not an escape hatch to justify your misinformation. Anti vaxxers do not hold a defensible position on COVID.
     
  12. L-u-c-y
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    Well aren't you lucky you have the luxury of falling on the right side of the divide. Maybe next time you won't.
     
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  13. WillieBDenied
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    WillieBDenied All men should be locked

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    Horseshit (pardon the expression). "I don't want it" is a totally valid position. No one needs to defend that position or justify their choice to you or to anyone else. Period. At least in a society where the government knows it's place.

    In 2019, there were nearly 8 million tobacco related deaths worldwide - more than covid-19 deaths by a wide margin.

    Should the government create non-smoker passports too? Mandate non-smoking health checks or lose your job? Are smokers too stupid to know it's bad for them? I guess so... but try this mandate crap on smokers and watch the world implode.

    Take the shot if you want it, but all you mandate monkeys need to get your heads out of the sand and stop sucking CNNs and the liberal dick.

    This is a devastating precedent being set by our government from which there may be no turning back.

    (sorry for the vitriol)
     
  14. Her Dividend
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    Fox News has a vaccine mandate.

    It’s so sad that you equate personal liberty with thoughtless actions that harm society and public health.

    Smoking affects the individual himself, not society at large. Furthermore, abundant laws have been passed to forbid others from breathing secondhand smoke.

    I hereby bestow on you the dim-wit award.
     
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  15. Her Dividend
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    Now you are literally making noise without saying anything. I am unimportant. Vaccination policies stand on their own and are evidence based. That’s why they are opposed by quackery and quacks.
     
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  16. Lazlo Toth
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    Well said. What the vaccine weenies seem to be conflating is the general idea of a vaccine vs THIS experimental jab.

    I have not found ONE "anti vaxxer". Rather, lots of folks who see this experimental jab for what it is: tyranny and corporate greed by the pharma companies.

    And it IS a bunch of horseshit. Nothing reconciles with their story. The data, lack of dead bodies in the streets, the testimony of nurses, etc.
     
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  17. WillieBDenied
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    WillieBDenied All men should be locked

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    #567 WillieBDenied, Nov 2, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
    And yet 8 million deaths? Really effective huh?

    Besides, you completely missed the point, therefore:

    I bestow you with the dumb ass award. Are we even now? Grow up.
     
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  18. L-u-c-y
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    You say antivaxxers will take up space in hospitals which could be used for other people, in that case so will those "selfish" smokers.

    I despise smoking, it disgusts me, but I wouldn't ban smokers.
     
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  19. L-u-c-y
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    The British Medical Journal
    2nd November 2021
    Our latest investigation hears from a whistleblower engaged in Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial. Her evidence raises serious questions.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

    Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports

    In autumn 2020 Pfizer’s chairman and chief executive, Albert Bourla, released an open letter to the billions of people around the world who were investing their hopes in a safe and effective covid-19 vaccine to end the pandemic. “As I’ve said before, we are operating at the speed of science,” Bourla wrote, explaining to the public when they could expect a Pfizer vaccine to be authorised in the United States.1

    But, for researchers who were testing Pfizer’s vaccine at several sites in Texas during that autumn, speed may have come at the cost of data integrity and patient safety. A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial. Staff who conducted quality control checks were overwhelmed by the volume of problems they were finding. After repeatedly notifying Ventavia of these problems, the regional director, Brook Jackson, emailed a complaint to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Ventavia fired her later the same day. Jackson has provided The BMJ with dozens of internal company documents, photos, audio recordings, and emails.

    Poor laboratory management
    On its website Ventavia calls itself the largest privately owned clinical research company in Texas and lists many awards it has won for its contract work.2 But Jackson has told The BMJ that, during the two weeks she was employed at Ventavia in September 2020, she repeatedly informed her superiors of poor laboratory management, patient safety concerns, and data integrity issues. Jackson was a trained clinical trial auditor who previously held a director of operations position and came to Ventavia with more than 15 years’ experience in clinical research coordination and management. Exasperated that Ventavia was not dealing with the problems, Jackson documented several matters late one night, taking photos on her mobile phone. One photo, provided to The BMJ, showed needles discarded in a plastic biohazard bag instead of a sharps container box. Another showed vaccine packaging materials with trial participants’ identification numbers written on them left out in the open, potentially unblinding participants. Ventavia executives later questioned Jackson for taking the photos.

    Early and inadvertent unblinding may have occurred on a far wider scale. According to the trial’s design, unblinded staff were responsible for preparing and administering the study drug (Pfizer’s vaccine or a placebo). This was to be done to preserve the blinding of trial participants and all other site staff, including the principal investigator. However, at Ventavia, Jackson told The BMJ that drug assignment confirmation printouts were being left in participants’ charts, accessible to blinded personnel. As a corrective action taken in September, two months into trial recruitment and with around 1000 participants already enrolled, quality assurance checklists were updated with instructions for staff to remove drug assignments from charts.

    In a recording of a meeting in late September2020 between Jackson and two directors a Ventavia executive can be heard explaining that the company wasn’t able to quantify the types and number of errors they were finding when examining the trial paperwork for quality control. “In my mind, it’s something new every day,” a Ventavia executive says. “We know that it’s significant.”

    Ventavia was not keeping up with data entry queries, shows an email sent by ICON, the contract research organisation with which Pfizer partnered on the trial. ICON reminded Ventavia in a September 2020 email: “The expectation for this study is that all queries are addressed within 24hrs.” ICON then highlighted over 100 outstanding queries older than three days in yellow. Examples included two individuals for which “Subject has reported with Severe symptoms/reactions … Per protocol, subjects experiencing Grade 3 local reactions should be contacted. Please confirm if an UNPLANNED CONTACT was made and update the corresponding form as appropriate.” According to the trial protocol a telephone contact should have occurred “to ascertain further details and determine whether a site visit is clinically indicated.”

    Worries over FDA inspection
    Documents show that problems had been going on for weeks. In a list of “action items” circulated among Ventavia leaders in early August 2020, shortly after the trial began and before Jackson’s hiring, a Ventavia executive identified three site staff members with whom to “Go over e-diary issue/falsifying data, etc.” One of them was “verbally counseled for changing data and not noting late entry,” a note indicates.

    At several points during the late September meeting Jackson and the Ventavia executives discussed the possibility of the FDA showing up for an inspection (box 1). “We’re going to get some kind of letter of information at least, when the FDA gets here . . . know it,” an executive stated.

    Box 1
    A history of lax oversight

    When it comes to the FDA and clinical trials, Elizabeth Woeckner, president of Citizens for Responsible Care and Research Incorporated (CIRCARE),3 says the agency’s oversight capacity is severely under-resourced. If the FDA receives a complaint about a clinical trial, she says the agency rarely has the staff available to show up and inspect. And sometimes oversight occurs too late.

    In one example CIRCARE and the US consumer advocacy organisation Public Citizen, along with dozens of public health experts, filed a detailed complaint in July 2018 with the FDA about a clinical trial that failed to comply with regulations for the protection of human participants.4 Nine months later, in April 2019, an FDA investigator inspected the clinical site. In May this year the FDA sent the triallist a warning letter that substantiated many of the claims in the complaints. It said, “t appears that you did not adhere to the applicable statutory requirements and FDA regulations governing the conduct of clinical investigations and the protection of human subjects.”5

    “There’s just a complete lack of oversight of contract research organisations and independent clinical research facilities,” says Jill Fisher, professor of social medicine at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine and author of Medical Research for Hire: The Political Economy of Pharmaceutical Clinical Trials.

    Ventavia and the FDA
    A former Ventavia employee told The BMJ that the company was nervous and expecting a federal audit of its Pfizer vaccine trial.

    “People working in clinical research are terrified of FDA audits,” Jill Fisher told The BMJ, but added that the agency rarely does anything other than inspect paperwork, usually months after a trial has ended. “I don’t know why they’re so afraid of them,” she said. But she said she was surprised that the agency failed to inspect Ventavia after an employee had filed a complaint. “You would think if there’s a specific and credible complaint that they would have to investigate that,” Fisher said.

    In 2007 the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of the Inspector General released a report on FDA’s oversight of clinical trials conducted between 2000 and 2005. The report found that the FDA inspected only 1% of clinical trial sites.6 Inspections carried out by the FDA’s vaccines and biologics branch have been decreasing in recent years, with just 50 conducted in the 2020 fiscal year.7

    RETURN TO TEXT

    The next morning, 25 September 2020, Jackson called the FDA to warn about unsound practices in Pfizer’s clinical trial at Ventavia. She then reported her concerns in an email to the agency. In the afternoon Ventavia fired Jackson—deemed “not a good fit,” according to her separation letter.

    Jackson told The BMJ it was the first time she had been fired in her 20 year career in research.

    Concerns raised
    In her 25 September email to the FDA Jackson wrote that Ventavia had enrolled more than 1000 participants at three sites. The full trial (registered under NCT04368728) enrolled around 44 000 participants across 153 sites that included numerous commercial companies and academic centres. She then listed a dozen concerns she had witnessed, including:

    • Participants placed in a hallway after injection and not being monitored by clinical staff

    • Lack of timely follow-up of patients who experienced adverse events

    • Protocol deviations not being reported

    • Vaccines not being stored at proper temperatures

    • Mislabelled laboratory specimens, and

    • Targeting of Ventavia staff for reporting these types of problems.
    Within hours Jackson received an email from the FDA thanking her for her concerns and notifying her that the FDA could not comment on any investigation that might result. A few days later Jackson received a call from an FDA inspector to discuss her report but was told that no further information could be provided. She heard nothing further in relation to her report.

    In Pfizer’s briefing document submitted to an FDA advisory committee meeting held on 10 December 2020 to discuss Pfizer’s application for emergency use authorisation of its covid-19 vaccine, the company made no mention of problems at the Ventavia site. The next day the FDA issued the authorisation of the vaccine.8

    In August this year, after the full approval of Pfizer’s vaccine, the FDA published a summary of its inspections of the company’s pivotal trial. Nine of the trial’s 153 sites were inspected. Ventavia’s sites were not listed among the nine, and no inspections of sites where adults were recruited took place in the eight months after the December 2020 emergency authorisation. The FDA’s inspection officer noted: “The data integrity and verification portion of the BIMO [bioresearch monitoring] inspections were limited because the study was ongoing, and the data required for verification and comparison were not yet available to the IND [investigational new drug].”

    Other employees’ accounts
    In recent months Jackson has reconnected with several former Ventavia employees who all left or were fired from the company. One of them was one of the officials who had taken part in the late September meeting. In a text message sent in June the former official apologised, saying that “everything that you complained about was spot on.”

    Two former Ventavia employees spoke to The BMJ anonymously for fear of reprisal and loss of job prospects in the tightly knit research community. Both confirmed broad aspects of Jackson’s complaint. One said that she had worked on over four dozen clinical trials in her career, including many large trials, but had never experienced such a “helter skelter” work environment as with Ventavia on Pfizer’s trial.

    “I’ve never had to do what they were asking me to do, ever,” she told The BMJ. “It just seemed like something a little different from normal—the things that were allowed and expected.”

    She added that during her time at Ventavia the company expected a federal audit but that this never came.

    After Jackson left the company problems persisted at Ventavia, this employee said. In several cases Ventavia lacked enough employees to swab all trial participants who reported covid-like symptoms, to test for infection. Laboratory confirmed symptomatic covid-19 was the trial’s primary endpoint, the employee noted. (An FDA review memorandum released in August this year states that across the full trial swabs were not taken from 477 people with suspected cases of symptomatic covid-19.)

    “I don’t think it was good clean data,” the employee said of the data Ventavia generated for the Pfizer trial. “It’s a crazy mess.”

    A second employee also described an environment at Ventavia unlike any she had experienced in her 20 years doing research. She told The BMJ that, shortly after Ventavia fired Jackson, Pfizer was notified of problems at Ventavia with the vaccine trial and that an audit took place.

    Since Jackson reported problems with Ventavia to the FDA in September 2020, Pfizer has hired Ventavia as a research subcontractor on four other vaccine clinical trials (covid-19 vaccine in children and young adults, pregnant women, and a booster dose, as well an RSV vaccine trial; NCT04816643, NCT04754594, NCT04955626, NCT05035212). The advisory committee for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is set to discuss the covid-19 paediatric vaccine trial on 2 November.
     
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  20. Her Dividend
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    Your link is either broken, not working, or its attendant server is down.

    Regarding the Pfizer vaccine why not refer to:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

    A person could also choose the Moderna or J&J vaccine.

    Of the 10+ people I know who got the pfizer shot, none had serious side effects and none has contracted the COVID since. I got it and I have not gotten COVID.

    Basically 90% of those dying from COVID in the USA are unvaccinated.

    People over 80 need to be careful of COVID period.
     
  21. Her Dividend
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    Look in the mirror.
     
  22. L-u-c-y
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    I think you're going to be in for a big shock.
     
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  23. L-u-c-y
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    Looks like The BMJ lost their bottle and withdrew it, or so many people vied it and it crashed the site.
     
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  24. Xileh
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    Xileh Happily Serving

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    In my state, as reported today, the least vaccinated counties compared with the most vaccinated counties (normalized by per 100,000);

    Have 10x the number of reported cases
    Have 4x the number of hospitalizations
    Have 30x the death rate

    Hospitals are over-full with COVID patients. Several friends have been denied cancer treatment, and one waited ten days to have her leg set after breaking it in two places following a fall.
     
  25. L-u-c-y
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    The problem is, the reports are lies and manipulations.
     
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