The Permanent Chastity/Denial Matrix

Tom,

I think percent time in chastity is a good metric. It’s easy to track. Men will try to go for as many 9.9999 nines as possible. I was. They get to watch progress if they track themselves over time reach the edge of your graph.

I think it’s good to distinguish orgasm denial from wearing a chastity device.

Denial is harder to define. I assume you’re talking a full orgasm from stimulation of the penis.

Being teased mentally until you get a spontaneous emission while locked isn’t a break from denial. A perfect (spurt free, twitch free, kept hard) ruined orgasm during an unlocked state only counts against chastity time. So feel lucky you’re getting an unconstrained erection.

I’m not going to advocate an N dimensional matrix but I really do think Erection Denial is separate. The shaft only devices feel different than a ball trap. Both are wonderful. But I know in conversation some people puzzle the piercing secured shaft only caged.

And then there’s “enforced”. Do you have access to the key. I had until this past October when we upped the security and got a key safe.

Finally there’s being Controlled vs Denied.

Touching Control or Denial, enforced or not
Masturbation Control or Denial
Erection Control vs Denial
Edging Control or Denial
Ejaculation Control vs Denial
Orgasm Control or Denial

Do you get to touch? stroke? Masturbate in any way? Get erect? Edge? Spurt (not just leak)? Cum?
Are all these controlled? Or when you’re unlocked you get to do whatever.
Are you denied them entirely?
Have you learned to orgasm from nipple stimulation? Or butt stuff?
Do you have a way out of chastity? Can you unlock yourself? Are you in enforced chastity with controlled/denied access to the key? Was your last unlocking intended to be your final? Has the key been destroyed or the cage permanently sealed... at least for now?

I do think this is multidimensional. And we should accept the various paths. We don’t all have to be perfect 10s

This is a fun conversation. I think by separating chastity and denial you’ve done a good thing to encourage talking about the dimensions.

 

Mathematical graphs are the picture that is worth 1000 words.
For visual learners, such as myself, this is true.

 

I think the qualitative approach instead of the quantitative percentage approach is probably more appropriate if we're trying to visualize or graph the paragraph-long discussions we have about the meaning of "permanent." For example, like you I'm unlocked for for travel, doctor visits and bike rides, but unlike you (I think) I'm also unlocked perhaps every 3-5 weeks for an erection and teasing, and less often (perhaps 90-150 days) a full spurting mess but then immediately relocked. Mathematically, we're locked very close to the same amount of time, but practically you're "more locked" than I am. In my view you're a 9 locked -- only unlocked for practical reasons, never for erection -- while I'm a 7 or 8, very seldom unlocked and almost always, but not always, erection-controlled.

Perhaps the next stage, under my approach, would be to develop a list of what the numbers 1-10 mean on each axis.

 

Accepting that there's going to be some subjectivity to this, I feel you've got it except there's too much differentiation at the 8-10 level. I'd edit as follows:

Defining the Chastity (X) axis (suggested):
0: Obviously, never locked, perhaps not even owning a device.
1: Has a device, worn sometimes for play.
2: Wears the device for extended play (a weekend, a week, maybe) once in a while.
3: Wears it for extended play fairly frequently
4: Wears it frequently, maybe several days a week, or maybe a week or two at a time.
5: Wears it roughly half the time.
6: Wears it more often than not, with frequent removal.
7: Wears it pretty much all the time, but unlocked for certain occasions or situations; erections >1/month.
8: Always worn, with infrequent removal for rare (once per month or less) erection
9: Always worn, with infrequent non-sexual removal (medical, travel, etc.)
10: Always worn, including travel, and their doctor has seen it; essentially permanently installed.


Defining the Denial (Y) axis (suggested):
0: Always allowed to have an orgasm, perhaps frequently. Denial isn't even in the vocabulary here.
1: Almost always will get an orgasm.
2: Orgasm rarely denied
3: Usually gets to come, although there might be a surprise ruin in there.
4: Orgasms may not be guaranteed, possibly a reward.
5: Orgasms maybe half the time, perhaps ruined.
6: Orgasms only as she decides is necessary for her, although possible ruins/milkings allowed.
7: Orgasms 5-12x/year, usually denied.
8: Rarely allowed orgasm (4 or less/year).
9: Ejaculation not allowed, although may have ruins or or anal orgasms.
10: Orgasms and emissions never allowed.

 

I’ve heard of

4-dimensional chastity! Prime axes! Maybe we can have a rotation matrix.... Woah (mind blown)

I do like math and graphs. So this appeals to me

...Keeping it simple is good.

One could chart one’s monthly or yearly averages marching up and to the right towards 10,10. A little plot that evolves with your age. Or show a heat map of time spent in various areas.

I’m imagining the conversations...

“Hi. I’m Bob. I started out as a 2,2. I started out using chastity as wank fodder and a way to tease myself. I am proud to have become an 8,8 now because of the acceptance of my lovely partner who’s holding my key for the part several years. We’re wondering if and when I’ll have my final unlocking, my final uncaged erection, and give up expectation of ever having another full orgasm... we might want to make that a celebration, and live as a 10,10 as long as we can. My problem is the goalposts for denial have changed. I’ll start twitching uncontrollably in my cage as I’m using my strapon on my wife, and feel spent basking in the glow of her orgasms and the relief I feel. She’s calling those my new orgasms and that she’s not denying me. I feel like I’m in so deep. I don’t think I’ll ever get to complete denial. And I dream of being sealed in my cage forever... who here is approaching 10s?”

“Welcome Bob. My chastity and denial goes to eleven. Also, we ordered a cage from Wiltshire England. We thought it would be sized in inches, and it showed up in millimeters. We used it anyway. It was better than encasing myself in a foil wrapped baked potato. Let me tell you about airport security....”

 

We are at 6,6 right now by Rectrix’s scale.

Though in July I lived as a 10,10. I forget when my dermatologist appointment was but I wore it to a full body examination... and had it seen. So I understand better that headspace, and have been dreaming about arranging a life where “never removed” could exist.

Thanks for distinguishing emissions vs ejaculations. At the full 10 of denial, nocturnal or spontaneous emissions would just happen. The body would pour out semen at its natural pace, but never given or causes whether as a physical need or emotional want.

 

Actually she doesn’t let me ruin or milk myself at all. So I’m a 6, and ruins are her dominant choice, so to speak.

For the record, we’ve been around 36 a year. Though it doesn’t happen on a schedule. 6 one month, then none for three months. I thought we’d get down to 24 this year, but she’s surprised me.

So I do prefer a year time scale for the frequencies. Months denote schedules, which we don’t have. A month is too short.

 

This is a good scale. I'm about a 9/Chastity, and a 7/Denial. Yes, my doctor has seen it.

 

I think we've got that distinction with
7: Wears it pretty much all the time, but unlocked for certain occasions or situations; erections >1/month.
8: Always worn, with infrequent removal for rare (once per month or less) erection
9: Always worn, with infrequent non-sexual removal (medical, travel, cleaning, etc.)
10: Always worn, including....

If it's literally cleaning only, that's a 9 in my book, added that to the parenthetical. That's why I made 9 "non-sexual" compared to 8, and the removal for any reason distinguishes it from 10.

 

What if, when it's taken off only for cleaning and your locked down to a bed. Would that make it a solid 10. You still can't touch it if your spread eagle on a bed....lol

 

In my judgment that's a 9. 10 means never comes off. But it could also be a 9.5.... It's a 1 to 10 scale, not 1 to 20....

 

This all appeals to my mathematical and statistical approach to life. Alas, i can contribute little more than cheerleading to the discussion. It is, alas, rare that i am locked or denied and it's all self. So, 2-3 chastity and maybe a low 2 for denial. Maybe a high 1.

Great scale though, even if it makes me feel rather inadequate!

 

Thanks @Tom Allen , @Rectrix. The 0-10 "Chastity" scale makes sense. I'm squarely a 7. Locked most of the time, except when my KH/wife wants intercourse, plus cleanings, doc, etc. With the once or twice a year longer (1-2 weeks) of pure freedom for reasons.


The "Denial" scale is still throwing me. I guess it come down to how we are defining "Denial"?

Going by the pure scale description I'd very much be on the low end, probably a 2 (rarely denied). But that doesn't feel right because I don't exactly orgasm frequently (average is about 2 weeks). But more importantly, I don't get stimulated that often. And I'd very much like to.

I think I fall more into a "locked and forgot" sort of situation [which is another thread], my wife/KH only directly stimulates me when *she* wants to have full on intercourse. Which when that happens, most of the time ends in an orgasm for me.

That said, we do more situations where she gets to orgasm, but *I* don't get stimulated directly. This very much feels like "Denial' to me. And going by the "number of orgasms" descriptors, I'm probably instead a 6 (orgasm as frequently as she wants)?




PS - I totally support this. I haven't been doing in the 20 years Tom has (only 3), but those "permanent" discussions are super irritating. If we get this scale worked out, I think we should start including it as descriptor text or custom title or something in profiles?

 

This would be good turned into one of those online questionaire / surveys. Where multiple questions are asked about the different aspects and the net result averaged out to your score on each axis. Some questions might be weighted more than others.
I do like the idea of it being in the profile or on the side bar.
Turns out I'd be a 8 - 6.5


PS. This is feeling like topping from the bottom, in that measuring and quantifying things is a male control freakery sort of thing, and that might not be a good thing for a submissive!
"It doesn't matter what your score is, just do as you're told!"

 

I think you're 7 locked and somewhere from 3-6 denial, and your comment points out a lot of ambiguity in the denial scale. I'll see if I can refine it when I get some time.

 

I do like the scale but I have trouble remembering the order when just seeing the numbers, is it chastity then denial or the reverse. It would be helpful to have prefixes to me. C5,D3 is much easier to understand than 5,3 to me. Would this be useful to anyone else?

 

You'll get used to it -- C comes before D, just like in the alphabet.