The Permanent Chastity/Denial Matrix

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Tom Allen, Dec 4, 2019.

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  1. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Okay, we all "know" what the term "permanent" means. Unfortunately, none of us can agree on it.

    Because the conversation come up several times a month, and because everybody has their own variation on the definitions, I'm going to propose a matrix, similar to those political or religious ideology matrices that you see all over social media.

    For you geeks, I've defined the two variables as: Chastity (i.e., the wearing of a device) and Denial (i.e., the allowing of orgasms). This is because whenever we discuss it, the two are inevitably intertwined, which is one of the reasons why we can't seem to agree on the terms, or we spend so much time explaining our own definitions.

    The matrix is set with the variables on the Chastity scale from Always Locked to Never Locked, and on the Denial scale from Never Allowed Orgasm to Always/Often Allowed Orgasm.

    I'm attaching a picture for clarity.

    [​IMG]

    I'm offering this up for feedback. I thought about assigning each box a 1-5 scale to help those so inclined to more closely identify or explain how their own particular situation works. For example, if I'm almost always locked except for medical or travel, but I'm never allowed an orgasm, that might be a +4,+5. Someone who is locked up for a few weeks, unlocked for some T&D, and has regular orgasms might be a -3, -3. A guy who doesn't wear a device, but is only allowed an orgasm every three months might be -5, +3.

    If nothing else, when we get those questions asking about "permanent chastity," someone can respond with "I'm a +3/+3, and my opinion is that..."

    Again, feedback welcome.
     
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  2. madams-sissysub
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    madams-sissysub Junior Member

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    Good idea!
     
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  3. shannonsanders
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    shannonsanders Active member

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    “Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand.”


    ― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
     
  4. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    The chastity community is a granfaloon.

    But still, your feedback is noted.
     
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  5. Billus
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    Billus Laconic.

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    While I can understand the frustration of dealing with people who use fluid definitions almost willy-nilly (heh), I have my doubts as to whether pandering to them is the best solution. I think I'd much rather press people on what "permanent" really means, instead of asking them how they define it.

    And assigning numbers can also be problematic; first, not everyone will even know what it means to be a +3, +4 or whatever. Second, if the problem is due to redefining words, it will eventually happen to numbers ("I'm a '+4, -2', but I think of myself as a '+3, +1'"). And third, you'll eventually get someone claiming to be a '+10, +10'. What the hell will that mean?
     
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  6. Finn-egan
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    Finn-egan Active member

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    98% locked. 85% denied. :)
     
  7. Giveitup
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    Giveitup Active member

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    I like it, @Tom Allen and this the 5-point scale makes sense. If someone is unlocked all the time, but the couple practices Karezza, and he's never allowed to orgasm, he'd be a -5, +5. Do I have that right? Where would it plot on the chart?
     
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  8. Doczilla421
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    Doczilla421 Active member

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    My chastity is very simple. I'm never unlocked and I'm not allowed orgasms. Have been this way since July of 2018. Was originally locked November 15th 2017 but she allowed an occasional orgasm but remained locked. So I have been permanently locked since Nov 2017 not allowed orgasms since July 2018.
     
  9. Tom Allen
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    +4/+4
    Some rounding is normal. ;)
     
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  10. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    That's exactly how it works.
    -5 (never locked) / +5 (always denied)

    Easy, isn't it?
     
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  11. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    While I don't disagree in principle, the problem seems to be that as more people enter the thread, the more the topic gets sidetracked to defining one's terms (and the occasional snipe at those who don't meet some arbitrary standards). My scale isn't pandering; it's a better way to define what you mean because chastity (i.e., device wearing) and denial are not the same, but they are intertwined.

    The idea of assigning a scale to each quadrant makes the numbers self explanatory. If we read it as C / D (Chastity scale, then Denial scale), a +2 / +2 is pretty clearly someone who wears a device more often than not, and who gets occasional orgasms. If a person claims to be +3 / -4, then you can assume he's usually locked up, but allowed to orgasm rather frequently.

    I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, and I believe that this is a fairly simple way of expressing the range that we typically see.

    And yes, there will be some pendants who will write stuff like "I'm a +3.5 / -0.75," but such people are obviously wankers,and we can dispense with them right from the start.
     
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  12. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    So you went from +4/ +4 to +4, +5.

    Okay, I can see the problem with people near the extreme end. a +5 on the Chastity scale would mean never removing the device. However, if it comes off for cleaning or MRIs, then that puts you in the 4.5 range. I just know that some guys will quibble that a perfect +5 is unobtainable, while others will claim that they haven't removed theirs since 1975.
     
  13. Doczilla421
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    I really don't care about a perfect score. Mine is never removed. Cleaning is done with a water pic and it is shaved around the cage.
    My doctor is aware of my chastity thanks to my wife. Haven't had any MRIs done yet but I guess we will cross that bridge if it ever comes up.
     
  14. young88
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    Well from the chart its pretty easy, +4.5 / +5.0. Cage is only removed for aircraft scanning, but a plastic is installed before security scanning and remains on until return. Then its back to SS for day to day. D has not allowed an orgasm for more than 7 years and in that time a device has always been used. The devices I wear are easily cleaned using the hand shower and a baby toothbrush and shaving is done by D where I cannot see properly.
     
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  15. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    See how easy it is?

    I think a 4.5 is warranted in this case. I guess I'm in the same situation, it's only been off for travel, and I can clean things while I'm wearing it - I only occasionally remove it for a deeper clean (of both me and the cage, because it's a steel tube).
     
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  16. ChasteCel
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    ChasteCel 7/6 on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale

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    So if I'm usually locked up. But the cage comes off for doctors appointments, massage, and the occasional break (or unforeseen circumstance like when my cage actually broke)... that'd probably be what? A +2?

    And I orgasm maybe once every 2 weeks on average? Maybe another +2?

    So +2/+2? Or are we talking close to the center axes?
     
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  17. R2002
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    R2002 Active member

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    4/5
    Unlocked once a month or so for PIV and a few times a year otherwise
    No orgasms since last february and none expected in future
     
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  18. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Okay, instead of a - 5 to 0 to +5, maybe we make it a 0 to 10 scale on each Axis.

    I like the 0 to 10. I was thinking of it as a coordinate system so 0,0 is "locked up half the time, get to come half the time", but that could easily read as 5,5 - I'm now wondering if the +/- might confuse people.

    Also, I think I'll flip the chart so Chastity is the X scale (across) and Denial is the Y, simply because that's the order that we're used to working with (X, Y, Z (if 3 axes)).
    To me, its easier to remember them in alphabetical order (Chastity, then Denial).

    Also, I'm questioning why I labeled the Axes in such a convoluted way. "Always unlocked" to "never unlocked".
    Why didn't I write "Always Locked" to "Never Locked"? Or should that be "Always Unlocked?"

    Simarly "Always Denied" to "Never Denied" or "Always allowed"? Which way makes more sense?

    This way, someone who is locked most of the time and rarely allowed orgasms might be an 8,8 instead of +4/+4.
     
  19. DaCaged[tumblr]
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    DaCaged[tumblr] New member

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    I think 0-10 is easier to understand. Besides negative numbers always have negative connotations to me. Which I don’t think is your intention.
     
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  20. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    I think you're correct. I'll be redrawing the scale later on today when I'm at my desk.
     
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  21. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Okay, here's an updated drawing - the scale is more exact than what I mocked up in the image editor.

    We're starting at 0,0 (never caged, never denied) and going up to 10, 10 (always caged, always denied).

    Feedback on this?

    [​IMG]
     
  22. ChasteCel
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    ChasteCel 7/6 on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale

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    I think this 10-point scale does seem easier to understand.

    Question though, what does "Get to cum half the time" mean (in post 18). I get "locked half the time = 5" that makes sense.

    But "get to cum half the time?" What would a 0 ("all the time" be?)
     
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  23. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Ladies First.

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    Brilliant.

    4 - 6

    locked a tad less than 1/2 the time ... so 4 or 5, I'll round down.
    one orgasm once every month or two ... so 6
     
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  24. harddenial
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    Unlocked 3 weeks in last 60= 1/20 = 0.05. So locked 95%, so 9.5 on scale to 10.
    Always denied =10.

    9.5, 10
     
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  25. Tom Allen
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    #25 Tom Allen, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    I was wondering how to people would specify or estimate how much time they spend locked, but thats a good way, especially for those at the higher end.

    Initially I had been thinking less in terms of direct numbers and more in subjective terms. For example, 8 would be "unlocked for cleaning, travel, medical," while 2 might be "locked for an occasional weekend play" and 6 might be "regular month or more lockups, with a couple of days break every few months."

    I'm trying to find a way at the higher end to differentiate between "unlocked for weekly cleanings" and "riveted on."

    For example, using a percent of time unlocked, I'm at 98% for the last couple of years, but I don't think of myself as a hard core player. Since I can remove it for a monthly deep clean, air travel, a doctor visit, or a long ride during bicycle season; some others around here only remove it for MRIs - their doctor has seen it, and they walk through the airport scanners. My thinking is that those wearers belong in the 9, 9.5, or 10 range. I'd only give myself an 8.

    Did that make sense?
     
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