The line between being a helpful slave to topping from the bottom

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by subbiehubbie, Jun 1, 2008.

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  1. subbiehubbie
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    subbiehubbie hubbie in training

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    Do any of my fellow slaves here ever get the feeling that they are trying to top from the bottom?
    Any Mistresses have issues with subs who try and control a scene too much?

    How do people on this board define that line between helpful advice from the slave;"Mistress, please teach me to suck cock as well as You can with this dildo"

    to the slave outright calling all the shots;"Mistress tie me up, tease me until i almost cum, then fill my mouth with Your favourite dildo and tell me how bad i really am..."

    personally there are times when i find myself either wanting to direct or directing my Mistress in how to deliver punishment and rewards when i know that's not my privilege. i have yet to establish a good way to deal with these feelings.
     
  2. goddess_christine
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    goddess_christine Junior Member

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    HeHe... Now you know why the first thing I do at play time is place a piece of tape over wendi's mouth :smile:

    Christine
     
  3. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    The annoying thing is, I know pet REALLY well. Better than he knows himself sometimes!

    The worst thing in the world is when you have something in your head and your pet says "I miss having..." the thing you were planning to do this evening!

    I KNOW what you like hunny, don't panic!

    pet has also expressed concern that I will overwork him when our device arrives. TRUST ME!!!! I will train before I expect anything.

    It undermines my confidence and authority (pet probably says that in his sleep now) when you think I don't know what to do.

    Yes, there is a very fine line. But this is where a chastity or sub diary would help (you hearing me charlotte?!)

    Fears and wishes are expressed indirectly. If pet really likes something in a scene, then he can write it in his diary and never have to repeat it again... If I forget or want some fresh ideas, I can go back and reread.

    There is nothing wrong in asking for clarification too. I need to work on my responses to this, because I know pet sometimes asks me how to do something and I'm too busy or too tired to show him and I get snappy with "oh god, can't you work it out yourself"... so give and take obviously.

    Hope this helps. I'm sure I've forgotten loads.

    In our situation we are both growing in this together and we both get really frustrated and feel that each of us is sometimes doing the *wrong* thing. Time and patience.
     
  4. icarus_101
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    icarus_101 Babygirl

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    As a wayward subbie ( and I could chat for hours on the difference between a subbie and a submissive... and yes, there is a difference! ), top from the bottom is really when the so-called submissive is steering or guiding and hence is not being helpful but actually conmtrolling... ao not really a submissive at all.

    It is the nature of things...
     
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  5. annasissydoll
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    annasissydoll sissy slut in training

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    There's two things at play, and kinda sorta at odds with toping forom the bottom.

    First, is the obvious role of a submissive which is naturally to NOT be in charge or control.
    Its very important that you learn to take this role and RELISH the feelings that come with knowing that Her pleasure will be maximized. To know that She can put you into toil or discomfort more than (maybe a LOT more than) a Woman typically would in order to serve her own amusement and comfort. That is our role as submissives.

    The second element is that we DO have ideas for things that might give more please to Her, B/both of us and yes, maybe even just ourselves. *giggles*
    BUT of course, if we speak our minds of such things "in the moment", it undermines the structure of our roles. Mistress is actually very interested in these thoughts of ours, both to use them and to specifically NOT use them, to tease us. or to simply guage our mood and interests the better for Her to improvise.

    For me, the solution to this is communication via "back channels".

    In cyber, we do this ALL the time! Often there will be a public scene going on that adheres to roles. Spaying something publicly would perturnb the mood (moods can range from fragile to indestructible, you never know). But it needs to be said, or will be useful to convey, so we send wither a whisper, or a private message or even an email during the public chat that no one else sees. This works VERY well and is always appreciated by even the most formal Domme.

    For example, if Mistress commences to tickle my tummy, but in that moment, my brain just does not feel sexy about that part of my body (bad chili dog at lunch?) i cna whisper that to Her and She will just move on to Her next game wiht no disruption to the mood.

    i think a sissy diary that Mistress can read is a wonderful idea. The thing is that you have to have the expectation that Mistress will "use" the information you give Her in Her own way, not Yours necessarily. If you are alwasy longing to play "the monkey game"(??? lol) and She's not into that, just let that flow along. Sometime when you least expect it, She'll incorporate it into Her fun. :)
    Just like any loving wife who knew of your baseball addiction but never shared it, suddenly produces that rookie Mickey Mantle baseball card for your birthday and iwll BEAM with delight at your pleasure form the special moment of release.

    Women are wonderful. Give everyting to them, hold nothing back, and everything will be taken care of. *blushing curtsey!*
     
  6. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Perfect sentiments anna, as usual. :kiss:

    I'm very glad to say that charlotte has begun her diary again, and I love to look at it when *I* choose. It's a real turn on to read some things she writes.

    It boosts my confidence when I know I'm on the right track, but also guides me if something wasn't quite right.. and it's somehow less hurtful if I read it rather than hear it.
     
  7. Fred Norman
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    Fred Norman Member

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    Good questions and...answers! As a top for 20 years before I discovered the joys of subbing I can relate. Now as a switch I can offer some suggestions.

    The top doesn't always read the sub, especially if they haven't played extensively. It takes time. Ms Watchful and slave are an example of in sych players. They've been together for a long time and understand each other. But they still have to check in with each other.

    It is helpful to both, to communicate needs and desires, fears and limits. But not during the scene. Brief before and after!! i.e. I liked this... that was not good... I'd like to try..., More of that would send me out to Saturn... But during the session, keep your big mouth shut! Communicate with body language. A 'do me' sub who just lies there like a piece of meat is no fun either. Black holes, I call them. Subs! Do not expect the Top to automatically know all your quirks and needs.


    I sometimes get a lot of, "You're topping from the bottom..." This from new wannabe Tops! My answer is, "OOOh. You've learned a new phrase! Now tell me? How to hell else is someone as new as you gonna learn!" That usually ends that relationship. Good riddance. All they've learned from the BDSM sites is attitude. The wrong one.

    But then my view of the scene is that it is a meeting of two minds. Everyone is there is have fun, and get their needs met. The sub relates his/her fantasies to the top. The top listens, embroiders upon them a bit, then feeds them back to the sub. Remembering that as a controlling top s/he is the ultimate safety net for the mental, emotional, and physical well being of both.

    Please excuse my rant...

    FN
     
  8. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Thank you Fred, I think that post says it all.

    Communicate well and truthfully before and after, and subtley during.

    I would like to think that pet can trust me with his boundaries, and if we could play more frequently I'm sure that would be the case. Sometimes I think the time between scenes leads him to forget... Looking forward to the days we can play more often and he has less time to forget!
     
  9. maid Muffy
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    maid Muffy Am i a boy or a GIRL?...

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    My Wife was saying... "Being a Mistress seems like an awful lot of work, I mean, with the house and the work and the kids... and ALL the things I have to DO around here, HOW am I suppose to find the time?"

    After some thought i suggested... that if i can find a way to ease the burden around here and devise a scheme which i shall now call the "Lazy Woman's Guide to Female Domination" would you consider it? There's no reason why the submissive partner can't be the more active member... and the Mistress lay back and be the one being SERVED!... Right? SHE's the one who does so much for everybody else isn't it time She got to be treated like the SUPERME GODDESS of the UNIVERSE for a change. Tell it be known my Wife is a very clever and perceptive LADY and She knows all i need is a project or assignment to keep me happy...

    So off i go to reseach this plan... A couple, Don and Debra Macleod wrote a book called "The French Maid" for us poor unimaginative souls to surprise and arouse our mates... step-by-step fully scripted love scenes... plot, dialogue with cum-plete directions. Next a copy of Mistress Lorelei's book "A Charm School For Sissy Maids" with the promise in just one month, She will transform you into the winesome, fetching, girlish, sissy maid of your dreams. Miss Vera's Finishing School for BOYS Who Want to Be GIRLs, i dunno BUT, the rumor is Johnny Depp learned his Captain Jack Sparrow's swagger by attending one of Her classes.

    There's nuttin' wrong with a subbie trying to better him/herself in his/her Mistress' eyes. To keep sex exciting one must explore a whole range of new activities. With the help from a book, "Sensuous Massage" and not throwing away the baby bottle warmer... i found a use for Yves Rocher essential body oils... and "The Ultimate Guide To Cunnilngus" by Violet Blue or "How to Go Down on a Woman and Give Her Exquisite Pleasure" cuz ALL good lil' pussy-licking maids need to have a cum-plete repertories of handy tips and trick and i'm no exception.

    MISTRESSES deserve to have breakfast served to them in bed from the prettiest of servant maids... anyway, that's what it says in the books. And if the Lady of the House happens to CUM, why it's the maid's responsibility to lick it all up after Her. "WONDERS upon WONDERS!!" She exclaims. "A MAN who actually cleans up his own mess!" But the most amazing thing is no longer does She have to yeller or nag or even raise HER voice just dangle that silly "key" before Her maid's eyes. "...And it's like MAGIC, and my new husband/wife ACTUALLY DOES what I tell him to do!!"

    Finally, She hands me a wooden paddle and orders me to... "SPANK YOURSELF, YOU, FILTHY LITTLE SLUT!!! THAT's IT...reeeeee-ally HARD!!!" Why should the Mistress wear Her whipping arm out when the slave is perfectly capable of doing it "her"-self? Once my bums are properly warmed She admimistered the last striking blows...
     
  10. chastitycuckold
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    chastitycuckold Senior Member

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    I blog......:tongue:
     
  11. dollyanne
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    dollyanne Sissy who loves pink frilly things!

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    deleted by dollyanne
     
  12. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    dollyanne....

    CALM DOWN!

    Besides which, thank you Muffy for such insight. I tried to track down the Ms Lorelei's "Charm School for Sissy Maids"... it appears to be completely unobtainable these days :cry:.

    Actually, if it is as good as everyone says it is, I may well be willing to shell out the 100+ dollars/pounds to get one!
     
  13. Burger_01
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    Burger_01 Chastity Geek

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    Yep.. I'm going to put my hand up as another sub who still has a lot to learn in the department of shutting the hell up.:squigglemouth:

    It's always when my wife actually feels a little dominant and kinky that I open my mouth and whine about "can we do this pleeeeeese???"

    I guess the fine line for us is between me trying to convince her that it might actually not be such a bad idea to whip me into her persuasion, and me feeling like we're not getting anywhere (I'm always in a hurry :|). I'm sure I'll learn one day.
     
  14. Mistress Watchful
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    Mistress Watchful Dont believe the hype ;oP

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    Burger... are you sure you're not my pet in disguise! :squigglemouth:
     
  15. pantyprincess
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    pantyprincess Member

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    I like Anna keep a journal for my wife to read. I make a weekly entry as to the events of the past week. Also, me wife constantly checks where I have been on the internet, including this site and others. This gives her great insight into my kinks, which tend to be more extreme than hers.
     
  16. maid Muffy
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    maid Muffy Am i a boy or a GIRL?...

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    BRAVO! BRAVO! i LOVE your prose, dollyanne, Stand up. girl, and take a bow!

    Mmmm... Maybe, i can help you, Mistress Watchful. "A Charm School for Sissy Maids" was written by Mistress Lorelei in 2001, 2nd printing, published by Greenery Press check this web site
    http://www.greenerypress.com/ They maybe able to help you, besides they have lots of related books you might find interesting. i purchase mine for about $11.95, 150 pages softcover. Of course if you happen to know someone with a copy who wouldn't mind copying excerpts from it.

    Any WOMAN who sees a man laying around, drinking beer, goofing off, watching TV... KNOWs that's nuffin' but trouble. It's the nature of man to be busy. Most men don't know it but it' s only thru serving the needs of a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN can a man ever achieve true happiness in Life. It's difficult for a man to reee-ally understand a Woman, they are just too complexed for us. BUT that doesn't mean we are not suppose to try.

    The role models i try to emulate are Goldie Hawn, Christina Applegate and Jenny McCarthy. In Jenny's book "Jen-X Open Book" She says when you meet someone for the first time and there's that awkward silence the best solution is to ...er... "fart" immediately.

    My Wife was furious. "I don't care what you read in those silly books or what you have HEARD... WOMEN... and I repeat WOMEN DO NOT FART!!!" However, Women have been known to stand next to dogs or cats who do!

    Poor "Rusty" that cat has a serious gas problem, must be all those "rat asses" he's been eating.

    BUT, just between you and me, dollyanne, the real reason Women don't fart is cuz they never keep their mouths closed enough to build up any pressure...
     
  17. Fred Norman
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    Fred Norman Member

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    Let's touch on some subtle signals. We all know the red and yellow are stop and slow down. But now add 'green' for "I like it, do more'. If you can't talk, a vigorous nodding or shaking of the head can be YES! or Stop!
    A rapid snapping of the fingers is always a RED

    In a heavy session the bottom can lose themselves to the point that they can't remember the safe words. I've taken people there, and have been there. I couldn't have told you my name! But tactile still works. Give two squeezes to the hand or body and get two back. Or two of something back, or the session is over. Bring the sub/bottom back gently. A lot of after care is needed here as they won't/can't come home by themselves.
     
  18. Catoris_CD_jamie
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    If I really desire something of my Mistress, I ask politely and respectfully. Then, she decides whether she wants to do it, when she is going to do it, and how she is going to do it. She does not like demanding or whining. She also does not to like be directed.

    The beauty is that i rarely have to ask Mistress for anything. She almost always knows my needs. I think that is a product of us communicating well, combined with her talent for reading people.

    I hope you all have a wonderful weekend. :kiss:

    ~*jamie*~
     
  19. Wolfie
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    Wolfie wolfie

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    OK, slight problem...
    i know that i do top from the bottom,
    however, i find that if i don't,
    my needs aren't met....
    One of my needs, is to out-Dommed
    however, i find many times i'm not...
    This is frustrating to me,
    so i find myself pushing the Mistresses limits...
    (not quite fair)
    There has been no consequenses for pushing,
    so i find myself doing so on a regular basis...
    i think the rod is spared and the fun suffers as a result...
    Maybe i just expect too much...
    opinions from others might help...
    Thanks
     
  20. Catoris_CD_jamie
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    It does sound like you expect too much Wolfie. Or, maybe you just haven't found the right Dominant? Or, maybe you aren't as submissive as you'd like to be?

    Best wishes figuring it out.

    ~*jamie*~
     
  21. Fred Norman
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    Fred Norman Member

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    Communication is the key to everything. In a non-play time, sit down and openly discuss your fantasies. Be honest. Tops are not mind readers! Don't expect everything you want, but you can work towards it.
    After play a debriefing is necessary too. Try to let her know where your mind was, when. Also listen to her side of it. You may discover new kinks.
    Her needs have to be met... even before yours!

    Communicate!!! Get on the same page.

    FN



    FN
     
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