The L in FLR

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by PouchPantyLover, Apr 20, 2019.

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  1. PouchPantyLover
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    Leadership is an affirmative act, not a passive acceptance of deference and effort. We all deal with Leadership either in being led or in being a follower and for many of us both. I'm a leader in my work. I set the bar on expectations and monitor the output of employees and subcontractors in how they perform. I delegate tasks based on the competence of the people or organizations I'm dealing with. Another example is my sailing. Sometimes I'm a skipper and sometimes I'm crew. The worst skipper is the screamer. Yelling on a boat in certain circumstances is warranted, but someone that screams all the time is doing so because they failed as a leader. Failed to prepare their crew, failed to think ahead to the next step and be ready for it. Anyone who has led knows you need to walk a fine line between micro-managing and being overly passive. The micro-manager alienates competent followers while the passive leader courts chaos.

    I know I sound like a Dale Carnegie lecture, but I'm going somewhere with this. Can it be a FLR if the female doesn't exercise her leadership role? If I'm doing laundry and cooking meals (and a whole bunch of other stuff) because I want to be her sissy maid, I'm really in a MLR, aren't I? This has been the crux of my problems with this lifestyle. When it works, it works wonderfully, but it requires her leadership. I can't accept that this is my place in life unless she makes it my place in life. I don't need her to lead me to a place I want to go, I just need her to lead. I think this is what draws me to this lifestyle like a moth to flame, I have to lead all the time. I don't want to lead anymore. I want to follow, I want to obey, but it has to be her that leads me.

    I am locked back up again at her insistence. This time I had nothing to do with promoting it. I just told her weeks ago when we gave it a break, when you're ready to lead, I'll be ready to follow. I don't know if it will be different this time around, but without her L, we have no FLR.
     
  2. Chaste J.
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    Chaste J. Long term member

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    Good luck! Remember, be careful what you wish for!
     
  3. Rectrix
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    Rectrix Long term member

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    This is the crux of so many discussions here, of so many men feeling abandoned or drifting, hoping and waiting and wanting their wives to be more involved, more consistent. Many times I've felt that she's just indulging me, just going along, when it is I who want to go along, following behind her, knowing not just that this is what she wants, but wanting to feel the tug and the training into how to be a better submissive husband.
     
  4. L-u-c-y
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    You said you are locked up at her insistence. There is the L.
     
  5. Bonobo
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    Being told to lock up imo is not leading. It’s a dominant act sure but if that’s where it end it’s not leading.
     
  6. Miffy
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    My wife told me in no uncertain terms to lock back up this morning-that felt like her leadership in action and was a wise and loving flr decision in my opinion
     
  7. MistressLolo
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    I can 100% relate to this, but from the female perspective. My hubby-subby is locked and we are working towards 24/7, but we both have busy vanilla lives, him more so than me. He often says that he feels like he's locked and left, but forgets that a lot of the time it is because he has other things to do, then he feels hard done by that I don't drop everything because he wants attention 'because he's the one locked up and doing all the hard work' . I find it hard getting the balance between giving him attention on his terms (therefore not in the least bit FL) and leaving him 'hanging' because playing is not on my agenda. Still learning that balance. I am undoubtedly comfortable in the Dominant role during play, but still feel like I am pandering and indulging him to a degree with the day to day bit.... But then nobody said it was easy!
     
  8. L-u-c-y
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    You are saying, "Do what I want, then I will do what you want".
     
  9. Rectrix
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    Rectrix Long term member

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    Thanks for the honest post about your experiences. It's tough finding that balance. The conundrum from the husband's point of view is that it's not just a sex game, it's our lives, it's our lens on how we view ourselves, it's the dynamic of our relationship and our marriage, and it's always there. In many ways the submission and service is easier when she makes it explicit, when she leads. Obviously, this cannot be a "do me" kind of demand for attention from the husband -- you say your husband "wants attention," that's probably topping from the bottom. The goal, I think, would be for the keyholder to find a way to show him by the occasional word or squeeze or tease that it's always there for her too.
     
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  10. Achedlock17
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    At one level this statement describes a simple reciprocal exchange, no force or dominance involved.

    “Lock up, and I will lead you.”

    Although I’ve fantasised about being locked, and FLRs, I think for me the prescription of getting locked up first as a concrete stipulation and requirement for being lead, a pre condition, prior to any specification of what my new female leader will then do, takes this to a different level away from a simple reciprocal exchange. I’d be agreeing to go along, not because I wholeheartedly wanted to, but because of the thrill of acting out a rupture in sense: for after all, once locked, I could be lead anywhere: I expect good things to happen, but they may not, and bad things could happen. The OP seems simply to have found that not a lot does happen for him either way once he has signed up (locked up). All things considered, that doesn’t sound too bad to me!! Be grateful for mercies. Cruel women; femme fatales...it could have turned out worse!

    Question is: does all leadership involve such a prior stipulation, such a rupture in pre existing sense? Certainly growing up in any society involves something analogous to this “forced choice”. We are born into a pre existing set of rules, power structures etc. The implied message is “do this (what society wants) and it (society) will treat you as you want it to”. In fact in the case of broader society the message is taken to be a promise: obey the rules and you will get what you want, by and large.

    Here in the society inside CM, @L-u-c-y makes the rules. The only promise in FLR is the promise that the female will lead the male. That’s it.
     
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  11. henry58
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    'Here in the society inside CM, @L-u-c-y makes the rules. The only promise in FLR is the promise that the female will lead the male. That’s it.[/QUOTE]

    FLR is about giving over control, but never with male conditions. Once the transfer has completed, the male should not expect a reciprocal relationship.
     
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  12. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    As I started with -
    It's common knowledge to anyone that's been around CM for awhile that I am not fond of @L-u-c-y leadership, however it is equally undeniable that she is a leader. Take my avatar. A passive individual would post a rule about avatars and then ignore what happened. Lucy denied my avatar even though it did not conflict with the written policy. This is an affirmative action of a leader. Similarly she locked an inappropriate thread the other day, a decision I agree with for a change. A passive individual would have had a policy, but not engaged in the leadership required to take action.

    Being submissive is a choice. Anyone that truly thinks they are submitting against their will is in denial. Once you agree to submit you give up most of your choices. I equate it to enlisting in the army. That is a choice, once you enlist you are bound by their terms and if you don't meet them, there are consequences. For the army to function properly a degree of order and disciplined must be maintained. That is the responsibility of leaders.

    What I am saying for me is that I am fine with giving up my choices and choosing to submit to her provided she is willing to accept the responsibility of leadership. I don't care where she leads me, that is her choice. If she abandons the role of a leader, then I question my submission. Am I doing the laundry because she demands it? Or am I doing the laundry because it fits my vision of my role as her submissive? If the latter is true I am in effect topping from the bottom. A highly blown out of proportion term IMO.

    I also appreciate @MistressLolo point about time. I run my own business, we have two kids in school and all sorts of activities. I don't see this as being about time or sex. It's about leadership. A small example of what I mean is as follows. She went to an early morning work out and texted me on her way home "I'll be home in ten minutes, have an egg over easy, a turkey sausage patty and a cup of coffee waiting for me at my desk". A command of me to serve her how she wants. No please, no "if you're not to busy". She just commands it. If I fail to do one of my appointed tasks, she notices and I'm reprimanded. If I've done a particularly good job serving her and she chooses to reward me I'm offered some form of pleasure within the boundaries she chooses.

    I know everyone is different and I respect and even admire the cooler heads who say "stay calm and trust your Mistress". There has been many a day where I wish I could. There are some days where I can. Where I struggle is when the power vacuum becomes extended. When there is no reaction to positive or negative actions on my part that last into the weeks. When we sit next to each other in our home based office and I watch the clock ticking down to when it's time to pick up the kids and my brain is screaming "please, do something, do anything". That is my internal crisis and what I mean by needing the L in the FLR.
     
  13. Achedlock17
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    As per my post above I haven’t yet found the balls to be locked and I’m not in a FLR, so take my comments with a pinch of salt...I’m also philosophical by nature so basically pretty otherworldly...but..

    Should leadership always be contained within the boundaries of goal oriented domains? It seems to me that your complaints about a power vacuum presuppose that something must always be done; that there is always pressure to act (or should be). In many if not all day to day matters, certainly of business that may be so...but such aspects of life are not exhaustive...it is easy to live one’s life entirely within the fold of already constituted pre coded “maps of the terrain”...but the map is not the terrain. To be truly adaptive, one needs to be open to formlessness...which may require the deferral of action...or the choice of non action...
    Could it be that your wife is trying to inculcate this mode of being ?
     
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  14. SubSnuggler
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    Different subs seem to need different levels of interaction with their dominant. I'm sure there are some dommes out there that are constantly barking out orders but I would imagine that's rare. Is that what you are looking for?

    At the end of the day, you are either submissive or you are not. The day you stop topping your wife and just relax, go with the flow, pamper her, help her out as much as possible, and let her know you are fully comfortable with her and your exchange of power with her, the happier you will be.

    I used to hate the 'power vacuum', so I know what you are talking about. Eventually I realized it isn't Female Led if I'm continually critical. I told my inner self to STFU and yield all control. Your wife will sense when this happens and is for real and unchanging; then your relationship will get much better.

    The bottom line is that YOU have to do most of the work to eliminate that power vacuum. It's not easy.
     
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  15. Bonobo
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    Barking orders is not leading, If a couple has chosen that in their dynamic so be it it’s theirs. However all dynamics need leadership whether it’s a husband and wife or an office environment. Without leadership there will be issues, if I assume the roll of the submissive then my wife must assume the roll of the dominant. If she does not lead then the relationship is like a ship without a rudder.
     
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  16. Susanstoy91
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    My Wife(KH) leads me. I'm locked because she wants me to be locked. She knows that I'm caged and she goes with it. Some days I get nothing, other days, non stop teasing. It really depends on her moods. I asked her if she think about me being locked. She told me sometimes she does and other times not so much. This morning she said it was time for her to see and touch my penis. She made me take off my cage and she played with me for 20 minutes, telling me not to cum...She then said it was time for me to finish myself off, so she could watch. She gets turned on watching me masturbate and cum by myself. I was begging her not to let me cum, but she told me I had to...As soon as I came, she had me lock myself back up. Today was a house cleaning day. I made supper, did the dishes, the laundry and vacuumed the house...In between she let me rub her feet. Later I was told she wanted to have an orgasm, which I did...So yes, on days like today, she leads me...Tomorrow, who knows...:lockkey:
     
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  17. PouchPantyLover
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    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying prior to this closing sentence, but if she is trying to inculcate (had to look that one up) :) a type of relationship, shouldn't she let me know that. She is not unaware of the frustration I experience over this point. If she has an answer I'm happy to listen and follow her lead.

    I have lived by this concept and it works when she is engaged. It has astounded me that by doing more and getting less I can be happier when I always thought the opposite is true. However I guess I am one those subs that can't feed off this indefinitely. Usually if she completely ignores any form of dominance I start to get itchy around 5-6 days. It can complicate things when she begins doing things that I am supposed to do and "letting me go". Then I really start to wonder, why I am doing it. :confused:

    I think the funny part about the discussion this post has created is that if you talked about leadership in any context outside of a sub/dom relationship you would get no disagreement on this point. It is because our Mistresses can do no wrong or because we as submissive s don't have the right to complain that you get push back.

    Which days do you think are better? Which days do you feel more submissive? As days of nothing add up, does it affect your attitude? When my wife does something that really floors me (like the time she took me to get a pedicure) I find I can go days with nothing and have little fall off in attitude.

    Thanks for the good feedback everyone. Trying to unwind this tangled mess in my brain has been an ongoing struggle.
     
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  18. Bonobo
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    My wife and I and are discussing leadership quite a bit right now. We both agree that she needs to be an active leader. We both also believe I should still have a voice in our marriage and I do. IMO any leader worth their salt learns from the men and women under them. And who better to teach our wives how to lead than us. As my wife gets more confident in her leadership the less advice I need to offer.

    I have asked her to teach me how to be a better husband. And I am teaching her how to be a more confident wife with me, and a more confident women in general.
     
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  19. Susanstoy91
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    On days that nothing happens, I spend my time thinking what does she have up het sleeve. What will happen next. On days that I get tied up and teased, I'm thinking...Will today be the day I get to have an orgasm?...As long as I have my cage on, I feel submissive. I might go 2-3 days with nothing, then out of the blue she tells me to get to the bedroom for a little tie down session. She has figured out how to really mess with my mind. She does thing like walking up behind me a putting her hand between my legs and playing with my balls or coming over and play with my nipple for a second or two, then just walk away. As far as my attitude goes, we have only been doing MC for less than a year now. I find every day exciting, waiting for the next thing to happen. When I was first locked up, I found after I had a ruined orgasm, I had the big drop off. I wouldn't go back into the cage right away. Now when I'm allowed to cum, it's right back into the cage, seconds after I cum, no questions asked. My Wife(KH) keeps me guessing what will happen next. Some days it's, you can wear your panties to do the house work, other days I'm nude all day and sometimes I told to wear shorts and a t-shirt. I never know from day to day...As long as I'm caged, I don't have an attitude, and if I do, my Wife fixes that in a hurry...
     
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  20. Achedlock17
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    Achedlock17 Long term member

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    Fair point. However it could be that from her perspective she isn’t consciously trying to inculcate appreciation of this other way of looking at things in you; she is simply acting (or not) in the world and otherwise behaving as per her normal perspective, which appears as relatively inactive and passive to you from your perspective. She wouldn’t really see a problem despite her knowledge of your frustration because she is behaving normally. Sounds like a clash of perspectives whether she is consciously or unconsciously leading in this way.
     
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  21. winstonmacgregor
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    winstonmacgregor Long term member

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    Have you asked her what it is that she would like to see out of you? What is her vision of what she wants to do in the world and how you fit in to it? Try to understand what motivates her and show her how you can help her get there. Leadership takes many forms. Maybe there is a way that you can better understand her and in turn will help you serve her better.
     
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  22. PouchPantyLover
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    Thanks again for all the great feedback. I guess I should back up a second and say that for the most part my wife can be a great Mistress. I'm not one of these poor souls that gets nothing. She is better at somethings than others. For example she is very tough with punishment spankings. She also can be quite confident in demanding her sexual satisfaction. We have gone for extended periods with chastity working beautifully. My longest lock-up was around 4 months and that followed on the heels of a 2 month lock-up.

    My problem (and it is mine, not hers) is I tend to spiral out of control when left with nothing for weeks at a time and she adds to that what she tries to be "nice" to me. Giving me a break. Not demanding or even expecting my service. I start questioning my reasons for being submissive. Am I really serving her? Or is she serving me? Then I get mad at myself. I think why am I putting myself through all this if she doesn't care one way or another?

    We have communicated quite a bit. We used to do this thing once a month where we wrote down 3 things we liked about our chastity relationship and three things we would like to change. I have a firm understanding of what she gets from and loves about our chastity relationship. Bottom line is she has low self esteem and to be placed on a pedestal makes her feel amazing and more confident. She loves the domestic service and how little if anything she does around the house. She loves being able to cum when she wants and then role over and go to sleep with no worries about me.

    I have shared my likes and dislikes with her and bottom line she struggles with many things. Another core personality trait is that she is a really nice and sweet person. She has almost never been good at tease and denial because it seems so mean to her. No assurances on my part to the contrary solve this. At times I playfully call her Nicetress. :D

    All of the above being said we learn things about ourselves and we learn to accept them or we learn to change them. For me I have demonstrated that I lose my submissiveness in a perceived power vacuum. I can accept that and the ensuing spin outs or I can change it. I don't believe I can change her, but she can change herself if she wants to. In the end it still can't be an FLR without her L.
     
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  23. winstonmacgregor
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    winstonmacgregor Long term member

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    It sounds as if you have a very good situation with a wonderful person and that is the most important thing. It sounds as if your chastity relationship is going against her natural inclinations but she is trying, and that makes her even more special. Maybe things will evolve and get better for both of you.
     
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  24. PouchPantyLover
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    I agree 100%. We have been married coming up on 19 years and lived together for several years before that. I love my wife whether my dick is in a cage or not and I make sure to express this. It is my hope that things will evolve as there are many things we both like about this lifestyle. The problem is it goes against both our natures to some degree.
     
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  25. Giveitup
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    I can empathize! It is really, really trying for me to not push her; to let her grow and develop at her own pace. This is such a head-game! You seem to be settling into a more peaceful place over the course of this thread. Stay strong, and keep the faith. Keep the lines of communication open, and channel your frustration into productive activities which will benefit you both...
     
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