PansyTart's measuring system for custom-fit devices

Discussion in 'Chastity device reviews and discussions' started by PansyTart, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Sizing yourself properly for a CB device of any kind, even a relatively simple "trapped-ball" design, is a somewhat counter-intuitive process. If you just lay your shaft on a ruler to get a cage length measurement and wrap a string around the base of your scrotum to get a base ring measurement, I can *guarantee* that many, if not most of you, will have the wrong measurements. If you send those measurments off to a custom CB device maker, you're probably going to find the base ring is too tight to sleep in, and the cage is longer/larger than you would like.

    Have I piqued your interest yet?

    I have a system for taking your measurements that should yield perfect results for your base ring, cage length, and inside diameter of the cage on the first try from your custom-fit device builder. The only thing that's really hard to measure for is the "gap" between the cage and base ring, but fortunately that is a very easy and inexpensive thing to adjust for most custom-fit device builders if need be.

    First, some observations about typical sizing misconceptions

    Misconception 1: If your device slips down your shaft/scrotum too far, your base ring is too large.

    Misconception 2: If you can "pull out" your shaft from the back end of the device, your base ring is too large.

    Misconception 3: It's normal to feel "night pain" while sleeping. It's normal for your CB device to wake you up. Just go pee and that will let you get back to sleep. Just put some lotion or oil around the base ring at night and it won't be so bad. It's normal to get some sores at first, or every now and again even after being in chastity for a long time. Just give it a few weeks/months and your body will adjust. Use some lotion or ointment when the sores crop up; they won't last long.

    Misconception 4: You need a cage whose inside diameter grips your shaft fairly tight. It's normal to require a lot of lube or "the stocking trick" to actually pull your shaft all they way into the cage.

    Misconception 5: You need a cage that is *long* enough to give you a little "room to grow".

    Misconception 6: It is possible to design a trapped ball cage that is "inescapable" without locking a piercing to the end of the cage or without a *deep* (and therefore dangerous) urethral insertion pin.

    The following posts will elaborate on these misconceptions, and then will detail my sizing system.

    If you need any further incentive, this sizing system gave me a perfect fit for my Jailbird from Mature Metal on the first try. This is 100% comfortable for full-time 24/7/365 wear with zero night pain.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #6

    I'm going to work backward through the misconceptions, starting with #6, because that the core concept that results in some of the other misconceptions.

    "It is possible to design a trapped ball cage that is 'inescapable' without locking a piercing to the end of the cage or without a *deep* (and therefore dangerous) urethral insertion pin."

    No simple trapped-ball device is inescapable unless you literally lock a PA/Amplung/Frenum piercing (or similar) to the far end of the cage, or unless the cap of the cage features a fairly deep urethral insertion pin. Or unless you fashion a belt-harness for it that prevents the top part from being pulled away from your body (and assuming the gap is sized/shaped properly to truly prevent being able to pull out one of your balls).

    A piercing lock can be safe and effective if done in certain ways, but there are CB designs that can put too much stress and weight on the piercing, which will cause it to migrate and/or tear! Seriously, research the boards hard before you go this route. Some piercing-based devices out there have screwed some people's piercings entirely. And any urethral insertion brings dubious long-term wear issues. For one, there is a constant risk of infection. For two, you can easily strain and tear your urethral tube if there is too much blockage/backpressure, and you will pee blood. Been there, done that. Twice. Learn from my pain.

    I don't care how tightly and painfully you've stuffed yourself into a plain 'ol trapped ball design. If the tip isn't anchored to the end of the cage via piercing or *long* urethral tube, with some soap/water or lube, simple relaxation, and patience, you can pull your shaft out of the back side of the cage/base ring no problem. You can choke your poor scrotum and turn your balls blue with a base ring that's too tight. You'll still be able to pull out. Anti-pullout devices of any sort can be defeated with a simple shim, enabling you not to just get out but to get back in. The bottom line is that our wiggly worm is very flexible and like an octopus tentacle, can slip through the smallest openings with little effort.

    And even for the piercing-locked or urethral designs, there are still so many ways to game your keyholder and defeat the locks that effectively, even those are escapable. Snag (or make a dupe of) the key and you're out and back in and the KH will never know. Learn to pick locks (it's not that hard), and the KH will never know.

    So to focus on "an inescapable device" is IMO the wrong mindset. The power of chastity play comes from its psychological symbolism, the visual and mental stimuli of seeing/feeling yourself caged, and the fact that it's an effective deterrent to opportunistic wank-sessions when your Domme/Dom isn't looking. If it takes you 45 minutes to wiggle out, wank, wait for the arousal to subside, then carefully wiggle it back in, you're cutting out a lot of typical opportunities to get your wank on when your KH is in the bathtub or whatever. Beyond that, it all comes down to trust and how much you want to play the game cooperatively.

    Instead, the real focus should be on finding a *wearable* device, in that you can literally wear it 24/7/365 except for those times that your KH takes it off, however long or brief such times of freedom might be. If you are forced to take it off to sleep well enough, or you have to take it off for days or weeks to let some sore/funky skin heal up, etc., then you are constantly breaking the perception of power exchange and you're spending too much time out of chastity.
     
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  3. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #5

    "You need a cage that is *long* enough to give you a little 'room to grow'."

    Your cage does not have to be long enough to allow your shaft to shrink and grow in length. You've heard of "showers" versus "growers", or the more graphic "meatcocks" versus "bloodcocks"? The only difference is in the amount of blood that normally fills the Corpus Cavernosum. A meatcock can easily become a bloodcock by simply relaxing and putting something constraining over your shaft and balls. or by grabbing your shaft and pressing it in slowly towards your abdomen. It will wrinkle and compress and look just like any bloodcock as long as you hold it there. There will be no discomfort.

    Well, here's what happens to us meatcock types when we put on a chastity cage: it shrinks. Quite naturally and effortlessly. It turns into a bloodcock inside that cage, and it's quite happy to stay that way. For us meatcocks, it's something about hanging free in the breeze, gravity, temperature, blood pressure, etc. that makes it expand a fair bit--and stay that way--when flapping around loose.

    This is why when you slap your 4-inch-when-relaxed meatcock into a CB-6000 it seems to quite often pull back from the entire tip area of the cage.
     
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  4. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #4

    "You need a cage whose inside diameter grips your shaft fairly tight. It's normal to require a lot of lube or 'the stocking trick' to actually pull your shaft all they way into the cage."

    Here's another fun fact about your anatomy. Stand upright and watch your shaft while you spread your legs to shoulder width and bend over and squat and try to look at the underside of your balls. Remember to both bend your waist and squat. See how your length magically shrinks by an inch or two or more!? Stand back upright and it's back to normal. This is caused by the fact that your Corpus Cavernosum is the true "anchor" or "base" of your shaft, and it extends deep into your lower abdomen and is physically anchored at a point deep inside.

    So every time you bend and squat just right (which happens especially when curling on your side while sleeping), you're tugging your entire shaft backward in the cage. If the cage's inside diameter is too tight and grippy, everything stays friction-bound in that pulled-back position and will not move forward again unless you tug it or push/pry with Q-tips. Even an erection won't push it forward (because of simple friction) unless you make it all slippery inside.

    I am not well-endowed. I am below the 5.78-inch average. I am not thick. Yet in the standard 1-3/8 inch cage IDs that every single mass-market CB trapped ball device uses, it's too tight. I get the pull-back and scrunching described above. I bet many of you reading this do too. With a larger ID cage, that crap never happens. Instead, if your shaft does pull back for various reasons, it can freely move forward into it's normal position afterward.

    The other big problem with a too-tight ID cage is that it can create large moisture traps in various areas, which leads to hygiene problems and, quite literally, a bad odor even if you're extremely good about cleaning and rinsing.

    If you look at the photo up in post #1 of this thread, you'll see a *lot* of room in the cage around the circumference of my shaft. Don't worry, it fills up completely with even mild arousal. Your shaft shrinks and grows in girth a lot more than is obvious unless you pay real close attention.
     
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  5. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #3

    "It's normal to feel 'night pain' while sleeping. It's normal for your CB device to wake you up. Just go pee and that will let you get back to sleep. Just put some lotion or oil around the base ring at night and it won't be so bad. It's normal to get some sores at first, or every now and again even after being in chastity for a long time. Just give it a few weeks/months and your body will adjust. Use some lotion or ointment when the sores crop up; they won't last long."

    If you've read some of my recent posts regarding sizing, you'll know that I'm a proponent of wearing a large enough base ring that you should feel absolutely zero "burning" pain when fully aroused, especially at night while sleeping. If night pain around the base ring wakes you up even once, let alone several times, then your base ring is too small. It's as simple as that.

    All of the standard mass-market devices (CB-n000, Birdlocked, and the various steel devices that you can order from many fetish stores) have a largest base ring that is only 2 inches at most. (1.97 inches for the largest Birdlocked.) This is simply too small/tight for many anatomies. Certainly they were all far too tight for me. I require a 2-3/8 inch base ring, and an oval shape, with the widest spots being at the 10 and 2 o'clock position is the most ideal.

    The only way to truly tell how large a base ring you need is to sleep in it for a few nights. You'll need rings in every size increment to really test this. Ideally you want rings that are already oval in shape. The shape makes a huge difference. As far as I know, only Mature Metal provides sizing kits that let you test this carefully. Just wrapping a string around or trying a few typical cock ring sizes will give you inaccurate results. Cock rings rarely come larger than 2 inches (most are far smaller), because with a cock ring you actually want to strangle all the return blood vessels to stay hard longer. This is not a situation you can maintain long term and not what you want in a CB device base ring.
     
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  6. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #2

    "If you can 'pull out' your shaft from the back end of the device, your base ring is too large."

    Remember this fact if nothing else: assuming a base ring that is as small as possible without causing pain, especially "burning" pain, when fully aroused, it's the *gap* between the base ring and cage that holds everything in place and keeps both the cage and base ring slipping down too far. Assuming a properly-sized gap, your base ring can and should be completely comfortable at all times except during a full arousal. And even then it should create only a moderate pressure and no real pain, or at most an extremely mild pain.

    At this point it's worth noting that the oval shape of the Mature Metal base rings add significantly to the comfort at 10 and 2 o'clock position where the most swelling is likely to occur, and this decreases the bottom gap (compared to circular base rings) which helps to hold everything in place better and prevent accidental escape of one of your testes. I have had unintentional ball escapes from a CB-3000, a Birdlocked, and a Green's "RingMaster". It's clear that the smaller bottom gap on the JailBird will never allow a ball escape, even though the 2-3/8 inch base ring is *much* larger than the 2 inch rings on all the other mass-market devices.

    Yes, this means that with a properly sized ring that you can actually sleep in without undue pain from nighttime erections, it makes it easier to pull out from the top when you are fully relaxed. But as I pointed out earlier, if we're honest, you can manage to pull out from the top no matter how tight you make your base ring. There are easy ways to mitigate or prevent accidental pullout, and if the gap is correctly sized/shaped to prevent ball pullout, it's relatively easy to fashion a simple hip harness that can truly prevent even intentional top pullout if you want to go to such lengths. (I'll make a different post soon detailing how to make such a harness.)

    Another significant advantage to a properly-sized base ring is that you'll experience far less "pinching" throughout the day from normal movement and sitting, especially under clothing. If the ring is too tight, there exist constant "hotspots" where the skin is pulled tight by friction, and the smallest tug in that area from clothing and movement causes that "pinching" pain because the already-tight skin is being tugged at. When there are no tight hotspots because the base ring is the right size, your skin moves easily around all points of the ring when normal movement tugs on it.
     
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  7. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    About Misconception #1

    "If your device slips down your shaft/scrotum too far, your base ring is too large"

    No, if your device slips down significantly all the time, it probably means your gap is too large or the cage design is not curved downward enough to create a large contact area with the part of your scrotum that is pulled up against it by the configuration of the gap. It's the simple friction area of your entire scrotum folded up around the sides and *bottom* of the cage that keeps everything in place. The straight bottom angle of the CB-n000 cages doesn't provide a constant gap/friction area on the bottom of the cage, compared to a curved cage with various rings and ridges like in a Mature Metal Jailbird and other similar steel designs. The design of the Jailbird just sticks like glue (if the gap is correct).

    Now that said, you can expect *some* degree of slip-down from normal movement and especially from having strong erections, which inflates the corpus cavernosum behind the base ring and exerts a fairly strong push against the base ring. Even with a properly-sized gap, you will periodically need to pull on the sides and bottom of your scrotum to readjust things. But we're talking only about a quarter inch to a half inch of movement at most. And maybe two or three adjustments per day, typically only right after a shower, right after a big, long arousal, and first thing in the morning because of all the night-time erections.

    If some mild slip down bothers you, there are two easy ways to really reduce/eliminate it. One is to simply wear briefs or panties most of the time to keep the entire device pulled up close to your abdomen and provide support against simple gravity. The other is to create a simple harness support around the back of your hips and down to your center post, using the cord around your hips to support the weight of the device and keep it up and close to your abdomen. (I use a simple cotton shoelace to do this when exercising, for example, as shown in the following photo.) I'll make another post some other time detailing the simple and more elaborate ways to do this. There's no need to run a third line through your butt crack, which can make bending and sitting uncomfortable, not to mention defecating. Just a simple "belt" on the top provides full support, complete comfort, and even truly inescapable security if made with a non-stretch material (chain or cable) and literally locked to your center post somehow.

    [​IMG]

    Some devices provide an "anti-pullout" option that creates additional friction points on your shaft within the cage that also help significantly reduce normal slip-down if implemented well. The blunt anti-pullout pins that Mature Metal provides as an option really do work well to use your shaft itself as an extra friction/anchor point to help keep the device in place, and they don't create any discomfort or skin irritation. I talk more about those anti-pullout pins in my 2011 Progressive review of a super-short Jailbird by Mature Metal and show some close-up pics of how they work.
     
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  8. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Enough jabbering - what is your sizing method?

    The essence of my sizing method is simple:

    A. You must spend several nights sleeping in various base ring sizes until you find the one that is as tight as possible without causing *any* night pain that wakes you up. You will probably need access to rings that are larger than 2 inches, and those aren't readily available from multiple sources. Mature Metal is one good source for real sizing kits, including a large one, if you need it, that has base rings up to 3-1/2 inches in size.

    B. You must measure for the cage length and inside diameter of the cage by squishing your shaft into a fairly short "bloodcock" configuration. You must slip actual sizing rings over it while in this configuration, because it's much wider than when you're hanging loose and free. You must also use a long-term compression bag (made with a knee-hi stocking) to simulate the effects of being in a cage and to find your body's naturally comfortable "bloodcock" length. You have to wear this bag for two days and sleep overnight in it and take your shaft measurements on day two. Note: a bloodcock configuration might not always be ideal for men with intact foreskins. It depends on the configuration of the end cap of the particular chastity device you're going to use, and how much potential there is for protuded bits of your foreskin to be snagged/pinched in clothing outside the tip of the cage.

    As for the step-by-step particulars, here they are:

    1. Order a sizing kit from Mature Metal, or otherwise acquire a set of cock rings ranging from 1 inches in diameter to at least 2.5 inches in diameter, in 1/8-inch size increments. You might even need some larger rings depending on your anatomy. The smaller 1- through 1-5/8 inch rings should be perfectly round, since they'll be used to measure your shaft. The 1-3/4 inch and larger rings can be round or oval (oval preferred if you plan to order from Mature Metal).

    Really, the easy way is to use Mature Metal's kit even if you don't plan to buy a Mature Metal device, although be warned that his base rings are oval and no other maker does oval base rings. If you look at the natural "V" of your groin as it converges on your scrotum, you'll see that most of the "meat" where the base ring sits is right at the 2 and 10 o'clock position, and this is where most "night pain" occurs because the overall swollen configuration near the base ring is noticeably larger at those two points. Hence why Mature Metal uses oval base rings. The shape makes a huge difference in comfort and fit.

    Also note that his standard sizing kit has a 2-1/8 inch largest base ring, which might still be too small for you (it was too small for me). He has a larger kit with rings up to 3.5 inches by special request if needed.

    2. Pick a likely base ring, slip it on, and get yourself as aroused as possible. If you feel any significant pain, especially "burning" pain, at any point around the circumference, or if your balls turn darker or bluish, take it off and try the next larger size. Repeat this process until you find a ring that feels tight and some moderate pressure, but no PAIN, when you are fully aroused.

    3. Now sleep overnight in this base ring. Two nights if need be. If the ring wakes you up from moderate pain or "burning" pain even once, it's TOO SMALL. Try again the next night with the next largest ring. Repeat this process until you find a ring that you can sleep through a night or two with no waking up from even moderate pain. This is the proper base ring size for you. Don't be surprised if it's much larger than the 2-inch largest ring on all the standard mass-market devices. My optimal size turned out to be 2-3/8 inch in an oval shape. I'm sure a round base ring would have to have been at least 2-1/2 or 2-5/8 inches.

    4. The gap measurement is easy. Start with a 3/8 gap. Do not bother trying any other gap size at first. There's no way to measure for this. You just have to wear the finished device for a while. It doesn't matter what the gap size on your CB-6000 or current device is. Ignore that. Go with 3/8 inch. Every device has a different overall configuration and shape all through the bottom of the cage, so what would be a good gap on a CB-6000, for example, would not necessarily be a good gap on a Jailbird, etc. If 3/8 turns out to be too small or too large, it's the easiest, cheapest adjustment for the maker to adjust.

    5. The cage inside diameter (ID) and length is the hardest part. It's also the most expensive part to correct if you get the measurements wrong, so don't rush this next part.

    6. Start out by looking carefully at ALL of the photos and descriptions in my "PansyTart's Sizing Method (supporting photos)" gallery here on CM.com. Be sure to use the Photostrip to walk through each photo so you can see the detailed descriptions for each photo.

    7. Now that you've seen the photos and read their descriptions, start out with the "Putting on the Stocking" process. If you still have your ideal base ring from the sizing kit, it's fine to wear that under the stocking too. Be sure not to wrap the stocking too tight. If you feel pain or burning pain from the stocking wraps at any point, just rewrap it a little looser.

    8. Now leave the stocking on this way for a day and sleep in it. Take it off and put it back on to shower. You can pee right through it no problem. The idea is to let your body relax into this new position/shape.

    9. On day two, measure the length of your compressed "bloodcock" shaft through the side of the stocking exactly as shown in one of the gallery photos. As my photo shows, I ordered a 1-3/4 inch long cage. Be sure and take a half dozen measurements over the course of the second day like this, because you'll have some natural fluctuation even in this compressed environment. Note: If you have an intact foreskin, you might want to ignore this particular step and measure a fully-relaxed "meatcock" length for your cage. Depending on whether your device will enable bits of foreskin to protrude beyond the end of the cage tip and get pinched by clothing, you might be forced to use a roomy cage length that will not result in the tip of your foreskin ever pressing against the tip of the cage. This particular "bloodcock" length works only for circumcised males.

    [​IMG]

    10. If you're ordering a Mature Metal device, decide whether you want to subtract 1/4-inch from the measurement you just took, the reason for which is described in one of the gallery photos (basically the design of his end cap allows the pointy tip of your penis some extra play). Had I known then what I know now, I would have chosen to do so and ordered a 1-1/2 inch cage instead of a 1-3/4 inch cage. But the fit is still perfectly snug even with the 1/4-inch extra length that I didn't understand would be there. I'm still quite happy with my fit, and if you measure with a nice compressed bloodcock length as described here, you will be too, regardless of whether you shave off a 1/4 inch or not. Your bloodcock will simply expand 1/4 inch longer to fill the distance and will still be snug up against the end of the cage in all conditions.

    11. After you get the length measurement squared away, grab your smaller sizing rings for the shaft. Now take off the stocking and grab the tip of your shaft and hold it in its compressed bloodcock length that you've been looking at for two days inside the stocking bag. Slip the sizing rings over the tip, regrab to keep it all compressed, and try to slide the ring all the way to the base of your shaft while it's all bunched up like this. Look carefully at my "Diameter measurement" photo for reference. If you must twist the ring a lot and it drags and catches on skin while you're moving it back and forth, it's too small. Try the next larger size. You want something that just barely hugs/grazes the surface of your shaft on all sides, and that you can easily move back and forth from tip to base while holding everything compressed in this position. This ring is your cage diameter. Note: this step is germane even for intact males! You really want an ample inside diameter. The only difference between circumcised versus intact males is which cage length is best, per the note in step 9 above.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. PansyTart
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    What to expect from a proper fit like this

    Assuming a high-quality design such as as any of Mature Metal's designs, and especially if you go with an oval base ring (which has benefits I've already metioned but also the benefit of decreasing the bottom gap for better overall friction that reduces "slipdown"), here's what you can expect from fitting a device like I've laid out here:

    A. With dry skin and a proper gap size, it will stay put all day long even if you're walking around naked, sitting and moving a lot, etc. Only strong erections, soap and water in the shower/bath, excessing sweating, or adding lubes/lotions/oils anywhere in the area will cause slip-down, and even then it should be 1/4 to 1/2 inch at most.

    B. You won't ever need to put lotion/oil/salve/lube anywhere around the base ring because it will never hurt you, never wake you up, never cause sores, and will cause far less pinching even under clothing--practically none--than a device whose base ring is too tight.

    C. You won't ever need to take the cage off to let your too-moist skin dry out and stop smelling bad. You won't have to fiddle with Q-tips trying to move things around in the cage to clean it or dry it. You'll have a natural air gap of roughly a quarter inch on all sides within the cage when you are soft and relaxed, which keeps all the skin surfaces quite healthy and dry.

    D. The tip of your shaft will stay firmly planted at the end of cage at all times, even with a 1/2-inch "slipdown". You won't make a mess pissing and your cage won't get smelly from dried piss on the inside.

    E. Even the most raging nocturnal erections will probably not wake you up. Or at most you might notice and fall right back asleep. The base ring will not hurt at all. Not ever. You'll feel pressure around your glans and maybe just behind the glans, but it's a forward pressure. The pressure might feel slightly painful at its fullest. But only slightly. Very slightly. Mostly it will just feel erotic, like you're straining to free yourself from confinement.

    F. You won't have huge bubbles of skin oozing out of those tiny holes as commonly happens in the CB-n000 or Birdlocked. Ugh. The only thing that might bulge, just ever so slightly, is the skin of your glans. And only at full erection and only with certain end-cap designs. Your shaft proper will not "ooze" out at all from anywhere. I remember the Birdlocked and the CB-3000 both having huge bubbles of skin stuck out even when only moderately aroused. Those days are gone forever.

    G. You won't have the all-to-common phenomenon of your shaft head creeping backward and staying back in the cage tube within just an hour or less of tugging/prying/pushing it all forward to the end of the cage. Damn mass-market devices all have dinky, far too tight 1-3/8 inch cages. I'm not even close to endowed and all of them would do this permanent creep-back. By measuring a diameter that fits a bloodcock width, your shaft will always effortlessly drop back to the end of the cage when bending/squatting/sitting tugs it all backward momentarily.

    H. You will feel a constant erotic sense of confinement in a way that is caused by the *length* of the shaft being constantly compressed rather than the *girth* being constantly squeezed. The two sensations, both physical and mental, are night and day. I liken it to bondage where you lock your wrist cuffs directly to your neck collar and stay that way all day/night. After a few hours you have this deep frustrating *longing* to just be able to stretch your damn arms out to their full length. The feeling is like that. Deliciously frustrating. All the freaking time. When I was wearing the tighter, grippier cage tubes of the Birdlocked, CB-n000, etc. I didn't feel that same sense of erotic frustration. In fact, if the cage is really grippy/conforming along your girth and length, you tend to lose most sensation there entirely unless things move and shift around. I bet DollyAnne would back me up on this particular observation if she saw this post and commented (She has a 1.5-inch Jailbird).

    I. Everytime you look down at your chastity, you'll be happy because it fits like a dream and you realize you can comfortably, safely wear it full time until your keyholder wants to release you.


    Notes about hygiene

    Part of the chastity fetish/ideal for many people is "no access at all" to any part of their shaft. There are plenty of designs that will do this for you, but be aware that the trade-off is more difficult hygiene, especially if you have an intact foreskin. The more open cage designs, such as the Jailbird by Mature Metal, enable you to get lots of water and soap all inside the cage, and enables you to push things around with your fingers to ensure that the soap gets everywhere and then can be completely rinsed away. There's also plenty of room to peel a foreskin back while still in the cage to enable thoroughly cleaning all that too. I find with a more open cage like the Jailbird, it's possible to prevent ALL soap residue buildup and to literally wear the cage full time 24/7/365 provided all other aspects of its fit are comfortable and healthy for your skin. For me, the trade off between true full-time wear versus "no access" falls squarely in favor of true full-time wear. Your mileage may vary.
     
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  10. Mistress Michelle
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    Mistress Michelle Magical Mistress

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    WOW...I am totally impressed! What a wonderful thread and so well written!

    rachel has finally saved enough money for her jailbird and we will be using your method next week while shes here with Me. Such good timing you have pansy with this wonderful thread!! I am soooo excited to get rachel into steel, and this thread is just what we needed to make sure its sized correctly from the start.

    So, thank you pansy, this thread took alot of time and effort on your part and I just wanted to let you know it is truely appreciated!

    Mistress Michelle
     
  11. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Awwww, thank you!
     
  12. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    Yes pansy tart i would like to thank you as well. It should save us considerable time.

    i do have one question for your. The "bloodcock" thing how far back do you push yourself?

    TIA
    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  13. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    That's why I recommend wearing a stocking for two days, then on day 2 taking the stocking off and measuring for cage length and cage inside diameter right away. Wearing a stocking "compression bag" as shown in the photo gallery causes everything to relax into their natural state under some small amount of constrictive/restrictive confinement. By taking a measurement from the side while still in the stocking bag (as shown in the gallery), you can find out what your natural bloodcock length ends up being when in confined conditions. So for example, in my photos, I measured 1-3/4 inches in the stocking bag, so that's the "natural" size my shaft wanted to compress to under confined conditions. That was the basis for my cage length, although as noted, you might want to shave off another 1/4 inch due to the design of the end cap of the Mature Metal designs. Those four wire loops at the very tip have enough room, in reality, for the pointy tip of your glans to squeeze between the two inner vertical bars somewhat, which effectively lets everything move forward a quarter inch. It seems he measures his cage length from just behind the two vertical bars.

    So once you know the natural, comfortable, compressed "bloodcock" length of your shaft from measuring it as shown *while still in the bag*, the point of then taking it out of the bag and grabbing the tip and pushing it back to the *same length* is to enable you to use sizing rings to figure out the correct inside diameter for the cage. By pushing the shaft back to the same length you measured inside the bag, you expand the circumference of the shaft accordingly. The ring that fits *smoothly/easily* over this circumference is the correct inside diameter measurement. Be aware that a cage with this inside diameter will sometimes appear to be very roomy once you're actually wearing the cage. You will see a large 1/4 inch space on both sides of your shaft at times, when you are super relaxed. Don't worry--even the slightest arousal and your circumference will quickly swell to fill the inside diameter of the cage. What's happening is that when you grab your glans and push backward to the right length, you're stimulating yourself a bit and that slight stimulation causes more swelling that you'd suspect without absolute reference points to compare against. Once it's in the cage, the bars of the cage provide that absolute reference point, so you can see how much the girth of your shaft actually changes constantly, and how much girth is gained by even the slightest stimulation.

    As with the base ring itself, you do NOT want a cage tube that is too tight all the time, especially right at the opening where the base of your shaft sits. You want the constant ebb and flow of your shaft to have room to easily move back and forth, or else you get into that cycle I tried to describe where any movement that tugs any portion of your shaft backward results in it *staying* stuck there, with the end result being that the head of your shaft always keeps creeping backward and stays stuck a good distance from the tip of your cage. I saw this behavior with all three of the mass-market trapped-ball devices I tried, all of which have a fixed 1-3/8 inch cage ID.
     
  14. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    Sorry if i am not getting something here but how far do you compress it when you put the stocking on?

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  15. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Okay, I see what you're asking. Good question! You simply slip the calf band part of the knee hi over your entire package, then pull the toe end out and then down, folding your shaft down with it, over your balls. You don't have to pull hard at all--just stretch the leg out a bit, then down under your ballsack, then anchor it there at that tension while you do the wraps to hold it in place at that tension. What you're going for is a *snug* bag and a mild amount of overall compression. You don't have to strangle everything and cinch it all uber tight. The idea is to enclose everything in a snug, mild confinement. After a very short time you'll see your shaft naturally snuggle right into its "natural" bloodcock size under confinement.

    If you want to be precise, you can experiment with different degrees of snugness by trying to make the initial pull-and-fold much tighter than i've described. I'm willing to bet there won't be much variance in length of your "natural" bloodcock length.

    Does that help? Basically, if you've cinched any part of the bag too tight, something will start bugging you. It should feel like a comfy, snug, warm fit, not a too-tight, annoying, irritating (or painful) fit. And it's easy to tell if it's not snug enogh: one of your balls will escape all by itself.
     
  16. Rachel
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    Rachel Owned by Mistress Michelle

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    Thank you pansy.

    MM's sweetpea
    rachel
     
  17. rumblcrk
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    rumblcrk New Member

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    Excellent information! Quick question: The picture with the measuring tape appears to show 2 3/4 inches but I thought you ordered a device much smaller than that. I am a little confused about the comment that you subtratced a 1/4 inch. It looks like a you subtracted an inch. Can you clarify?

    Thanks,
    r
     
  18. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Good question. It's 1-3/4 inches because I'm starting the measurement at the 1 inch mark, which is right next to the line that I'm pointing to in one of the previous pictures in that gallery. The problem is that the first inch of most "industrial" tape measures can be inaccurate because of the metal hanger thingy on the end. So it's more precise to start at the 1-inch mark and measure from there, where possible.
     
  19. rumblcrk
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    rumblcrk New Member

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    Ah yes, that first measuring tape inch! I do the same "start from 1" and subtract 1 from the tape's marked numbers when I want the most accurate reading. I even purchased a caliper style measuring tool to get more accurate inside and outside dimensions for pipes, rings ans such. Now that I think of it, the caliper will be of great use. Thanks again.

    r
     
  20. Jens
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    Jens CO-Owner of CM
    Owner of Chastity Mansion Administrator Moderator

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    Brilliant thread and very detailed information too. I am going to 'sticky' this thread so that it always shows at the top of this forum.

    Thank you.
     
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  21. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Thank you! Hope it helps some others save time and money getting a well-fit device for their own anatomy. Not everyone may agree with the logic of my approach, but that's okay. Hopefully it's at least food for thought and they'll think twice about some preconceived notions they might have, and take a closer look at their own anatomy when measuring themselves for a custom-fit device. I wouldn't have learned half this stuff for myself if I hadn't needed to figure out why no less than 4 different mass-market devices just weren't working for me before I finally got smart and went for a custom-fit device.
     
  22. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    At this point, I'd like to reproduce two posts from another thread because it elaborates a little bit on two of the misconceptions that I assert.

    I cannot stress enough that I am thoroughly convinced that a too-tight inside diameter in the cage tube actually contributes to accidental pullout, and that in fact a large, roomy cage tube will both eliminate accidental pullout and will ensure that your glans actually stays as far towards the tip of the cage tube at all times! Take a look through the member galleries here and note how many photos show the glans pulled way back from the end "bulb" of most chastity devices. Note how in such photos the skin of their shaft is wrinkled up and wedged near the opening of the cage tube. I certainly experienced this same phenomenon with the 1-3/8 inch, mostly flat smooth surface of the cage tube in the Birdlocked, the CB-n000, and the Green's "RingMaster"/"Jailhouse".

    By contrast, if you look at my gallery photos of the Mature Metal Jailbird that is fitted according to my measuring system, you'll see that my glans is always firmly right up to the tip of the cage tube. It does not matter how I move. It does not matter how much "slip down" I experience from being heavily aroused, or from soapy water in the shower. Regardless of where the entire device is sitting on the range that its possible for all ball-trap designs to move around, the cage tube always remains fully filled at all times.

    This is due to two factors: 1) the short cage length that was measured for a "bloodcock" configuration of my shaft, even though my shaft is normally a "meatcock" when hanging in the breeze, and 2) the roomy inside diameter of the cage relative to the most relaxed outside diameter of my shaft. The roomy outside diameter enables every millimeter of the shaft to move right back down if any force tugs the shaft backward in the cage (or if the cage itself "slips down", because there is zero friction within the confines of the cage. If the cage is pulled down even a solid inch by manual force, or if I pull the top of my base ring as far away from my pubis as possible, the shaft just expands in length accordingly (because it has plenty of room to expand because the default position is a "bloodcock") and the glans stays firmly planted at the far end of the cage.

    Even slight arousal will cause the shaft to swell in diameter and fully fill the cage. And full arousal is no problem; there is pressure and a strong sense of confinement in the cage tube itself, but no pain. None. And it's actually pretty psychologically stimulating to see that even when you are completely aroused, the length of your shaft is completely confined and roughly only a third of its normal fully erect length when hanging free in the breeze. It's a bit of a delicious mind-fuck, both for you and your KH.

    Now, how does a too-tight ID for the cage tube actually contribute to accidental pullout? It's simple friction mechanics. The bottom half of your shaft is slightly wider than the tip-half of your shaft. When a force moves the bottom half of your shaft backward in the tube, it "grips" and stays wedged there. Then when the tip half relaxes and contracts, it further adds to the wedged skin back in the tube. Then the next tug backwards on the bottom half of the shaft pulls even more backward, aided by the "stopper" or "pressure" created by the front half also being wedged back in the tube after contraction. This cycle repeats, and your flesh finds the path of least resistance, millimeter by millimeter, by spilling outside the back opening of the tube! Pressure will always force the mass to the point where no pressure exists, if possible, and the inch-worm friction mechanics keeps moving everything closer to that point where no pressure exists. If the cage tube inside diameter is relatively loose and roomy, there is no friction and zero interior pressure when you are mostly or fully relaxed, so everything stays put and won't creep towards the outside of the tube.
     
  23. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Note that I've updated the original posts on page 1 to address the different cage length considerations for men with intact foreskins, and I also added a section about hygiene considerations, especially for men with intact foreskins.
     
  24. filmriss
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    filmriss Junior Member

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    i just saw this thread and thought i had to reply.
    as my anatomy differs from pansytarts, i would strongly suggest against using only that system to find out your correct sizing. as much as i admire your efforts, i take a look at the fist pic from your post and i get the urge to just simply pull a little and have the device in my hands and off your junk.
    but to be more specific:
    1. sleeping with a tight cock ring doesnt normally "burn or irritate". it doesnt. otherwise you wouldnt have sex with it on. and you dont need to be a masochist to do that.
    2. i see that you can eliminate the burn (on the testicles) with an enormous a-ring for the sake of security. another look at your pictures and i still have no idea how the upper portion of the device stays so flat against your stomach without having a huge magnet in your bellybutton. you dont even fill your cage diameter properly. no offense.

    3. the only thing thats kept me safe and comfortable until now was a snug enough cage to grip my shaft and keep it where it needs to be. for me it was about how much of it i could get into the device. if you dont leave enough room for your bits to expand, the oh so familiar pull on the balls will be gone. because your penis will not pull the whole device forward, your balls will have a great time staying behind the a-ring. that would eliminate the "burning" so many people talk about.

    that may just be my side of the story, but the best idea in my chaste life was to go for a 28mm (thats millimeters, i suck at inches) cage with a 39mm a-ring. first device i slept in the whole night through. oh, and im a grower. i go from 6 to about 18cm soft to hard. and i went for a 5.5cm device (not just penis cage).

    again, pansytart, i highly appreciate your effort, i just would like to tell people that there are different anatomies out there.
    filmriss


    plus
    an afterthought.
    loris devices come in sizes you wouldnt even consider. but still, she seems to be the most sought after chastity expert... IN THE WORLD! i am locked in one of her creations also.
     
  25. PansyTart
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    PansyTart MsTreat's sissy bitch

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    Thanks for your counterpoints, filmriss. The more input and observations, the more people down the road can make informed choices for their own fitting challenges! Quick thoughts:

    1. If a "tight cockring" won't burn or irritate while sleeping, that will be discovered with my method. I need a 2-3/8 inch ring to sleep without burning. Everyone else will be different. I say to go with the tightest ring you can sleep in without burning "night pain".

    2. The Jailbird stays close to my belly because the gap size and the overall shape of the gap due to the shape/curve of the cage all contribute to a snug grip.

    3. People say this and it could well be true for them. I don't have enough empirical evidence to refute it, so I don't mention it in my original posts. I know that it's not true for me. I've simulated those conditions and still get just as much expansion behind the A ring when aroused. My Jailbird keeps my shaft permanently compressed in length quite a bit and really it can't expand much to the sides either, and the entire pubis swells just as much as it did with any other cage design/shape/length/size I've tried.

    Keep the comments and counterpoints coming, folks! Help others save some time and money and make good fitting choices!
     
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