Love & Hate

There are some guys who like to be humiliated but it is not an essential component of FLR. I think that in each relationship there are multiple dynamics going on. Power exchange, S/M, chastity, desire, humiliation, service. Every couple brings them in in their own way. I can easily imagine FLR where the guy is happy to surrender some control over his life and be of service to a woman who provides kind and compassionate direction.

M and I have a mostly equal relationship in general. Sexually, I’m locked up and she has control. This excites me. She likes control and how much I desire her. Neither one of us are interested in humiliation. I would probably be excited if she made my sessions more “difficult” but I would not enjoy anything too painful. This is the mix that works for us.

 

I think you are confusing a FLR with a M/s, possibly BDSM relationship. A FLR can be quite tame. Not even chastity. It is whatever the couple wish it to be. Nothing is required or imposed. The only assumption is the woman is in charge. Even the degree that she is in charge, is open for discussion.

This description may not fit the popular male fantasy of a FLR, but that’s all there is to it.

 

If you accept Deleuze’s theory the male masochist wishes to idealise the female dominant, even to the degree of accepting suffering at her hands, all in the name of idealism itself. True distress is the mental suffering that arises from the anxiety that they idealised badly (that is, chose the personification of idealism badly).

 

I would offer the same thought here as I did with our friend in the 'Lack of Interest' thread. Intimacy!

One can have a caring, affectionate relationship, loving even, but the real force that allows such a couple to reach levels of unbridled passion, intimacy is the force multiplier.

With intimacy, the connections made between a couple are unparalleled with any other emotional situation. Intimacy creates the most profound reactions between the sexes, not apparent with any other deep relationship connection. The only other emotional driver that comes close; obsession!

Bring intimacy and obsession together in one connection, then you have a very interesting dynamic. No guarantees on how such connections manifest, but you can bet that in a FLR scenario, levels of incredible energy will enact.

 

If you don't mind my butting in to an interesting conversation between you two, how about female genitial mutilation where the clitoris is removed, not common in the west but unfortunately all to common in other parts of the world, surely an abusive male led society? In many ways the vanilla side is just a reverse of what women have had to do ie housework,shopping,laundry as well as holding a job down, the male takes on many or all of these tasks, the sexual side and BDSM and chastity is an add on that not all couples adhere to, but us subs really enjoy the power exchange on a psychological level if not always physically.

 

I had elected to refrain from participating in this thread for reasons I'll express in a minute, but this line caught my attention today. Female genital mutiliation is not a rare phenomenon limited to some "tribes in Africa". The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that there are 200 Million women alive today that have undergone Female Genital Mutilation. Furthermore the WHO estimates annually about 3 Million women are being subjected to this tragedy on an annual basis. What is most disturbing about these procedures is they usually correspond with puberty meaning this horror is being inflicted on children. Equating sexual relations between consenting adults to this barbaric process is like comparing summer camps to concentration camps. Their both camps, right?

On a lighter note I just want to explain why I stayed away from your thread @eoniss. By way of explanation I'd like to discuss black licorice. To me black licorice was some ancient candymakers idea for an April Fools joke. They decided to sit down and make the most disgusting thing possible and give it to people as a treat. To their dismay and surprise some people said, "wow, this is good". I will never understand those people. I will never agree with their position that black licorice is good as it is a vile food that should only be served in hell. So I just shrug and shudder when I watch someone consuming this little piece of evil.

You have received many sound responses as to why the actions taken in an FLR are not linked to hate or dark intentions and you've rejected them all. My offering my thoughts on the subject are not going to change your mind as these relationships are your black licorice. Shrug, shudder and move on.

 

It's simple. They love each other. He has needs, she satisfies them.
She has needs, he satisfies them.
Every single relationship is unique. Some are hard core. Some are subtle.
Your difficulty in understanding the nuances are akin to a bare nuckle fighter not understanding why another guy could possibly enjoy playing the flute.
I think in many ways you just have to live it.

 

Its a great shame that more women haven't contributed to this interesting thread, but anyway FLR is not always initiated by the sub,many ladies in the BDSM lifestyle actively seek a sub/slave and many of the ladies a sub iniates the discussion and lets them know and experience the benefits to them both sexual and domestic of an FLR or Ds are very keen to give it a go. However I'm with eoniss on the no sex side of chastity and think its quite rare even in an FLR or Ds. Fascinating stats and quite disgusting about the level of FGM.

 

Statements like these (among many others in this exchange) used to inspire Me to respond to discussions like this, as to provide a counter narrative based on one woman's actual experiences.

Now, such statements are why I don't bother contributing much to threads like these on this site, anymore. It's hard to type with these 'unicorn' hooves, anyway.

Nailed it with the licorice, @PouchPantyLover.

 

I have always struggled with these issues.

I can trace an interest in 'the scene', submission/Domination, BDSM, etc. since age 8, reading Arthur Ransome's "Swallows and Amazons".

In my teens I read long and deeply to try to understand what it was all about. Then I found women of every background, ethnicity, age and kind, who'd play; and I discovered sex in all its wonderful forms.

After reading myself in, I expected to be the submissive; but by experiment I found it worked best when I was Dominant and took the lead.

Later I met 'MissPrim' and helped her create 'Miss Prim's Muir Academy for naughty adult boys, girls and special girls'; as 'Chairman of the Governors', Bursar, sometimes Head Boy and Tuck Shop monitor.

We found a very high proportion of our girls were 'special girls'; every variation from occasional x-dressers to fully transitioned transgender women.

I found, somewhat to my delight and to theirs, that I was as attracted to some 'special girls' who credibly 'presented' as women, as I was to any other women; but not to men, whatever they wore.

I also found by experiment

 

Whoops, accidentally posted, so I will continue where I left off.

After helping Miss Prim create her school, I turned to making my own fantasies of playing with human ponies and puppies, by creating The Other Pony Club and running events.

I also found by experiment that I could only have any kind of relationship if I found that at some level I liked and respected my playmate. If I really thought somebody worthless or worse; block, delete, move on.

It doesn't seem very respectful to do these often humiliating, uncomfortable, painful things to them.

But they seem to love it and come back for more, so long as I still respect them, and they respect me.

I am unkeen on too much introspection on motive, it is hard for me to know when my own 'reasons' are not post-hoc rationalisations. I would never impute motives to others as so many do here, and elsewhere.

But so long there is fully informed, freely given, comsent, and that may be withdrawn by either partry at any time with no reason having to be given, it doesn't seem to be abusive to me.

 

That's a way of putting it.

My way of stating it is that those wanting or willing to take control, power, authority, should also accept the responsibilities, duties and obligations that go with that.

If that is true, things work, all the way from one having zero control and the other 100%.

Where it doesn't is if one wants control, but doesn't accept responsibility: that's tyranny.

Or one gets landed with the responsibility, without the power or authority to demand it: that's martyrdom.

That is true for any relationship, FLR, MaleDom, lesbian, gay, at work, whatever, IMHO.

 

I had to comment on the topic of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM). It has never made any sense to me in any way. Even if you a accepted that it decreased the risk of female adultery, it would seem to me to be totally counterbalanced by having to have sex with someone who couldn't enjoy it.

As a result, I simply accepted that it was indeed some insane patriarchal craziness.

I FINALLY read an article that had a somewhat reasonable explanation for it, if you accept that people love money. I will try to summarize my understanding of the article.

Basically, the author noted that FGM is oddly distributed. Geographically nearby cultures may not share the custom of FGM.

His explanation is that it is the result of different legal systems, specifically dowry systems.

I'm a little hazy on the details after 5 years, but basically, in societies with FGM, women get their dowry back if the marriage is ended early, but they get much more if the marriage lasts an intermediate term.

Basically, in MOST Western marriage/divorce systems, the amount of money that a woman gets out of a marriage in case of divorce is dependent on the length of the marriage and the number of children. Therefore there is no financial incentive to either prolong or to shorten the marriage.

In FGM societies, according to the author, terminating a marriage immediately doesn't financially benefit the woman. HOWEVER once a certain period has passed the woman is fully "vested" so to speak, and she doesn't benefit financially by staying any longer than that.

Here's where FGM comes in. Apparently, women who have suffered FGM CAN enjoy sex, but it take a significant amount of time and effort by both parties to figure out HOW. This period of working out how sets a "cost" to the woman. If she bails after that amount of work, she loses all that work and time, and must go through the process again. This time/effort "cost" makes it "unprofitable" to end a marriage as soon as it would otherwise be financially profitable.

He claims that his research shows a very strong correlation between these dowry laws and the social custom of FGM. He also claims to have researched FGM victim's to obtain their views of FGM.

I don't know if he's correct, but it's certainly an interesting theory.

 

This is the reason why I have been sitting back and reading not only reading this thread, but a few have voiced their opinions about being kinky and interest in kink. In essence, reading about how someone is disgusted in what I find pleasurable seems unwelcoming if I am considering being part of a new community. It sounds like you (not you specifically, in general) do not want me here, nor will you accept me even if we never interact with one another. Here is the keyword for me finding pleasure in these things. There is a word called consent. According to Merriam Webster, consent means "to give assent or approval [or to] agree." So by that definition, as long as both parties consent to sadism, masochism, humiliation, degradation, then it is totally fine.

Here is the wrong way to kink:

True story of my first BDSM experience:

My ex-girlfriend was heavily into the kink community. She was on the extreme side where it involved all sorts of unfavorable to most fetishes. For example, she was into needles and drawing blood for pleasure. She thrived on making them suffer. I, on the other hand, had never experienced any of this and of course, she didn't explain it clearly to me. She tried to force me into it by continually pressuring me to be her sub. I had no idea what she wanted, and we would have conversations with many holes. The first time we were intimate, she claimed that I frustrated her because she couldn't do anything without my consent. She continually kept telling me, "well, you can't handle what I'd do to you. You can't handle it. You're not kinky at all," and just continuously made claims that I wasn't kinky at all. Well, of course, that relationship ended because I knew I deserved better than someone who would pressure me into something I wasn't interested in initially nor knew anything about.

At first, I despised BDSM with a passion. My first experience of it lead me to belive that people were nuts if they found joy in making people suffer. That was until I met two of my good friends (now happily married) who were heavily into the kink community. They asked me to give it another chance because my ex was on a different spectrum. She was on the farther end of the spectrum that would have made many people uncomfortable. Instead, they told me to create a profile and lurk, research, and learn more. That's precisely what I did. I lurked, I researched, I learned more and discovered that not only was I considered a domme, but I'm a sensual domme. In other words, I'm passionate, caring, loving, and I like being in control.

Kink is on a spectrum. It can go from extremely light to extremely heavy (and dark) depending on the person. Every person in the kinky lifestyle is in a different area of this spectrum.

I am a kinkster but I'm different just like the others
I am what you might call kinky. I'm not into humiliation or degradation. That is one of my hard limits. I do not humiliate or degrade someone because it doesn't make me feel good about myself. Before I interact with someone in person or online, we have long conversations about the following topics:

1. Consent
2. Fetishes
3. Limits (hard and soft...these is a link to tell you the differences between the two)

Why do we talk about these? Well, it makes a functional D/s relationship. It keeps the dominant an submissive (or whatever role you play) safe. It is respectful and makes a lasting kinky relationship.

Another true story:

One of my fetishes is online play or phone play. I enjoy dominating someone via online or phone. One of my former subs I had online was into rope play and CBT. He thoroughly enjoyed that and wanted me to tell him what to do with the rope that he had. We had so much fun, and it stimulated me watching him in his pleasurable pain. Am I sadistic? To a degree. However, only if the person who is "suffering" is happy. If they are not, then we stop.

Moreover, it is fine if making someone suffer is not your cup of tea; however, when you make assumptions and blanket everyone who considers them themselves kinky as evil, then that is unfortunate. To make things clear, I was having a conversation with my husband about chastity, and he thought it was weird. Even chastity is something that many other people find odd. Am I going to pass judgment on him because he doesn't believe that chastity is a valid lifestyle? No, he is as vanilla as vanilla can get. I respect him.

Those are my thoughts as being a member of the hated kinkster klan. I wanted to post my views like many have requested me to.

Thank you for saying this because I had no other way to verbalize this. This was one of the reasons why I did not voice my opinion (as well as many others I've soon discovered on this site who do not participate in conversation) because I already felt (and they feel) an unwelcoming presence because I'm part of the kink community. I thought to myself, wow...there is a lot of hate toward kinksters, and there is no hesitation in telling exactly why they dislike it.

Well, hate me if you want. I would hope that people would accept that this is my lifestyle and respect me. I don't even live it 24/7. I do it when I can. It doesn't mean that I will force anyone to do anything because, at the end of the day, it all boils down to consent. Permission. That is what makes a healthy kinky relationship.

References

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_BDSM These are terms of the different kinds of kinks there are. Not all people do this, but some people do.
https://fetlife.com/glossary Just because I don't want someone who is unfamiliar with what FetLife is about to be utterly confused by my post.

One last thing,

Not all kinksters are alike. Consent is the rule of thumb. Respect is the way of a true kinkster. Respecting the rights of others. No means no and that is it.

 

Don't forget the red, it's served in purgatory , the chocolate, almost food.

I'm having a hard time imagining "unicorn hooves" in those fishnets. Not sure if I should be excited or scared!

 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS THE ANSWER I'VE BEEN SEARCHING FOR FOR THE LAST 6.5 YEARS!!!!!

All we need to know.

Thank you @L-u-c-y !

 

Such a loaded thread lol

 

Roy was one of the first schoolboys to attend Miss Prim's Muir Academy for naughty adult boys, girls and special girls, in 1987, and attended our 3-4 day long boarding schools for nearly two decades afterwards.

He went up to dazed-looking newbies on the first evening to say, "Don't try to understand it, brighter minds than yours have gone mad trying! Just enjoy it. If you don't, just politely make your excuses and leave!"

Which I think is much the same sentiment, at base.