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Kink-shaming

Discussion in 'The Pedestal' started by Living Curious, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Wanting that bridge to vanilla is something we have in common. A while back I seem to remember an exchange we had regarding that topic so I remember it as an Amandaism :)
    Perhaps I should have cited you as the source ;) Live and learn.
     
  2. The other side of the argument, that is less tolerant of kink in general, is to say no kink is acceptable. I know, that makes no sense...well that depends. For many into chastity the actual reason is not kink at all. For many the idea is behavior modification for the good of the m/f relationship. Imagine then a site dedicated to a "traditional" vanilla relationship where members suddenly start discussing why anal sex isn't acceptable, blowjobs, threesomes....well why not bi, queer and on to many other alternate sexual desires, kinks and excesses?

    My point is simply that it's all possible....possibly right or possibly wrong. It's just as wrong to judge others by their kink as it is to insist that others should not be disgusted or offended. In the end the group think is what counts and to me that means my suggestion is to create a definition of the purpose of the site and NOT let openness be the description of what's acceptable. Boundaries protect those already in.

    That's not to say I'm at all a prude. Quite the contrary. Instead I would prefer to find a different group for specific links or range of kinks. An example would be the FLR groups in that get disrupted by men and occasionally women that want to define flr as Femdom/slave. To me that's another group think.
     
  3. I think it would be great if more people spent more time talking honestly about themselves, openly sharing their actual experiences and experiments, and candidly (and bravely) reflecing on what those experiences meant to them, and how they felt during them - and what they learned about themselves in the process.

    But instead of contributing earnestly and sharing their own true life experiences in a way that adds value to the forum, certain prolific members choose to spend their time and influence flooding the forum with thread after thread about how they think other people could or should cater their participation to best appeal to yet another group of people.

    See the problem with this pattern? It’s a whole lot of posting about other people. Presuming to know, for instance, what this apparently massive and highly sought after group of “vanilla” observers may or may not want to see, or be scared off by, etc., and then presuming to tell everyone else how they could and should be worrying about that too. All without ever seeming to contribute anything of insight or depth that might actually show an observer how chastity fits into your own life, in a way that may be relatable to theirs.

    If were one of these “vanilla” passers by, I do truly believe I would be more putt-off by the constant (and terribly boring and repetitive) threads about how best to attract them than I would by reading entries containing topics that I’m not into. I see the difference between the growing collection of those threads and the “how do I get my wife to participate in chastity” threads as more or less semantic, and nearly as manipulative. You’re just trying to manipulate how everyone else presents themselves in order to better manipulate them.

    And at the end of the day you’ve done nothing but deter members from posting honestly about themselves for fear of thinly veiled ridicule.

    Sharing genuinely and openly, and in a way that shows that you’re a real person and not just some (insert fetish here) crazed caricature will do more to present the many possibilities of this lifestyle to the unacquainted than 1000 threads talking about how to best to do so. And doing so has the added benefit of not being so bloody boring and redundant.


    —————————————

    An example of this (not coincidentally drawn from my actual experience first arriving at the mansion):

    @Dufty@Dufty shared a thread in such a way as I describe, and it was his thread that made me stay when Thatgirl first showed me CM two years or so ago. Many, many elements of his experience were WAY outside of my personal comfort zone, but I didn’t care, because I could tell those details weren’t the point. His thread included, for example, entries chronicling experiences with cuckolding, and “forced” bi-sexuality, but his posts weren’t about cuckolding or forced bi. They were about him, and what was going on inside his head, and those were simply two among many experiences that he recounted while expressing himself. The distinction there means a lot, and the result was a very human and relatable piece of story telling, even if certain individual topics weren’t palatable (to me).

    Contrast that thread and others like it with threads shallowly and narrowly focused on and about a specific fetish (which tend to be unnecessarily graphic, and tell you nothing about the author other than that they REALLY love (fill in the fetish), and the difference should be plain as day. Realty is almost never so off-putting.

    —————————————-

    In an effort not to hijack this thread I will post this as a new thread of my own. But I wanted to start here because reading the OP’s O.P. was what got me thinking. I did not read the “kink shaming” posts he was responding to because I know what thread they in turn were reacting to, of course, and because the specifics are immaterial to my point (and likely to bother me).
     
  4. Kink shaming is wrong and out of order . If it's not your kink then don't comment and move along .

    no Internet forum or website is going to ever be perfect for everyone .
    Whether it's a kink or non kink site or forum people will always have different ideas of how the site should be run or how it should appeal to members/new members etc because we are all different and have different ways of doing things .
     
  5. @Jasmic68@Jasmic68 has a very real and human thread as well as do you. It is something that really got me into being active myself here.

    Yes I do mention my explicit adventures, I also mention the lulls, new routines (good and bad) feelings, and in general how chastity and our kinks affects our daily lives.

    And when asked, my kh isn't active here because of content. She said that she has seen plenty worse when she reads literotica...it's that she is doing things exactly how she wants and doesn't need help. She reads, she checks in on what I'm thinking, but isn't comfortable with sharing her thoughts and activities like I am. She is comfortable just watching.

    The honest stories of people that share a common theme in their life with me is what I find interesting.
     
  6. When I first started keeping a chastity journal I was more explicit in my descriptions of what Elle and I got up to and I can still be relatively explicit if I think it is worth it, as in if it is relevant to the ongoing development of our relationship. I have however turned this down quite a lot as I have settled into the chastity lifestyle. From the beginning though I made sure that I included all of the mad thoughts, worries and issues I was facing, along with the eureka moments and wow, did that really just happen? moments.

    I agree that the best journals (at least the best for my taste) are the ones that include personal details. I'm not talking about names, places or anything like that, but the stuff going on in peoples heads, things that happen accompanied with the how that experience made them feel. In my opinion the best journals also detail when things go wrong, when there are problems that need to be overcome and hopefully how they were successfully resolved.

    That said I really enjoy reading some of the incredible experiences others are having even if they are not to my taste. For instance while I enjoy cross dressing I have no desire to be fully feminized. I enjoy reading accounts of this happening though.

    Elle did join the Mansion but, as someone new to being a keyholder and getting her head around all this chastity FLR stuff, she didn't feel that she could add anything to the forum. She is aware of some of the crazier aspects of the Mansion but they don't bother her. She hasn't never once asked a question like I have read many times, along the lines of 'do I have to cuckold/feminise/peg etc etc my husband now I have locked up his penis?' Half the time I think that anyone asking that question must be a man posing as a woman as who would be so ridiculous to ask anything like that, to think that because they are being asked to be a keyholder all this other stuff has to happen. But then I remember how Elle was unsure of what was being asked of her when we started and I am less judgmental.

    As for the sections of the forum I don't use them. I use the New Posts link pretty exclusively and just look at the first few pages of posts, judging by the title and the OP as to whether I am going to be interested. If they are one of the women of the Mansion I pretty much always read their initial post, and I have quite a few favorites amongst the chastised male members. If I see a Hi, I'm new and excited type of title I tend to ignore and move on.
     
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  7. Yes,Chastity scat. This is where you speak of chastity but everything has to be in rhythm and it must rhyme. lol....
     
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  8. Mistress Lucy
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    I think the problem is not the kinks, it's crudeness. Mainly men like crude and women like erotic. I think this is why this issue keeps coming up.

    If men could be less crude and less "locker room" in their status updates and thread titles everyone would be happy.
     
  9. This is no doubt a very unique web site requiring one to be open minded and totally nonjudgmental. While it would be nice to see more women members, there are many resources beyond CM to inform women about chastity and FLRs.. Some women ultimately arrive here and are happy to be here. Other women practice their lifestyle and don't see CM as necessary or something they even have time for. My Miss knows I am a member here and that I have friends here. She does not see or feel the need as my key holder to be a member.of CM. I do from time to time forward a post or something I know she will find informative or amusing from CM. So, in that way she is influenced by CM.
     
  10. You can't please everyone all the time.
    Youcan however choose what you are going to do if something offends you to whatever degree.
    I regard myself as being open minded and will read about a thing I have no prior experience of. Whether or not I will read more about it in future depends on how I felt about the first bit I read.
    But like it or not I'm not going to complain about it being available just because I flips none of or the wrong switches for me.
    I can only concieve of me ever complaining about Paedophilia and/or non-consensual abuse. Which hopefully anyone else would too.
     
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  11. Relativity...how long a minute is, depends on which side of the bathroom door you're on.

    Kinks, language, topics...are subjective and are so personal it's impossible to make it impervious to scrutiny.

    My great grandma is very religious and I could see her stumbling on to a site on chastity...she would be mortified that keeping oneself chaste turned into some of the topics here. I would be just as mortified if I came here to find 85 year old women discussing religion and useful tips on remaining chaste for the lord. Both versions are chastity and what I find tame my great grandmother would view as extremely pornographic.

    What some feel is crude or "locker room" talk (by the way I've been in locker rooms my whole life and men don't talk in the locker room, we shower dress and leave) some see as normal conversation or topic oriented banter.

    There is one solution. Total makeover. These are the rules, this is not allowed, this is, anything found objectionable will be removed. Implement. The members that have an issue with this would stop visiting....who knows, maybe start a rated R version called Chastity Modest Home. The remaining members can stay and continue to be free from the offensive material, topics, and conversation that upsets their sensibilities.

    Or we could inform people how open minded this community is, how there is no right or wrong way, and that for every extreme right there is a far left, and that most are near the middle someplace. Then let them figure out where.
     
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  12. Mistress Lucy
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    Or the other solution I have suggested, meeting halfway. Public things like status updates and thread titles could be less crude and people could be welcome to be as crude as they like inside the threads. Then every one is happy.
     
  13. The main problem with society as a whole today is that everyone want to be politically, religiously, sexually, whatereally correct and if anyone is offended then it has to go... but there is always someone offended so at the end of the exercise there will be nothing left... or just so bland that only the blandest of people will like it. People need to learn not to be offended - that's the only solution for the world... and by that also forums like this... dumb things down... and they become... dumb.
     
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  14. Mistress Lucy
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    This forum didn't have locker room talk in the past and it survived for years. It has changed recently.
     
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  15. Don't know, i've never been interested in the forums - just the chat. It hasn't changed any, except there are fewer and fewer Ladies the more moderated the site has become...
     
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    There are fewer and fewer Ladies the more unmoderated the site has become.
     
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  17. I applaud the sincere and constructive nature of this thread and am personally willing to accept the moderators judgement as to which subjects are candidates to be struck from the forums or other CM content. I do think a technology solution seems attractive if we have the resources to support and manage it once it's in place. Would be happy to discuss further if anyone wants to pursue and sponsor specifics of that solution. My personal feeling is that male addiction to pornography is probably the biggest threat to positive relationships between men and women today and chastity could be an effective tool to rectify this problem. At the same time I don't think many women who have just discovered their husband masturbating are either intellectually or emotionally ready for what many of us here might think the obvious answer. Perhaps spycam technology would capture their immediate interests better........and then counseling perhaps.......and finally locking if necessary - but this could take months or even years for many couples to evolve toward. Again congratulations to all on this constructive thread.......let's see it continue (and maybe spawn some action!)
     
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  18. I haven't seen any evidence of such a change. On what do you base that sweeping assertion?
     
  19. Mistress Lucy
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    The tone of the site. I am not the only one who thinks so. So there obviously is a problem, unless it's imaginary by a few people.

    @maid_carrie@maid_carrie said:
    What an interesting question [​IMG]@LadyS and I've noted the comments too.

    You are correct of course, quite a few long term members are looking at CM and saying the culture has changed, and not for the good.

    It's also interesting that you've read Mistress Watchful's back story. The site was, of course, started by her and her sub, who was the webmaster ( a slight misnomer really. More. Websub) and she was a force to be reckoned with. It wasn't quite a rod of iron but everyone knew the bounds beyond which they didn't step. She was also known as a real life person attending munches etc and involved in the kink scene in her locality.

    The site was then predominantly a U.K. populated place and most were nice to each other and knew the acceptable bounds. There were a few North Americans and they were very civilised people and great to chat with.

    Now we have people who happily throw the F word into posts or call people bast***s quite happily. I realise some of that is quite normal in some social circles in parts of the world, but not everywhere.

    There also seems an obsession with and talking constantly about cummimg, and how they have been having sex and graphic descriptions to go with it. All signs that a bloke culture has developed without restraint.

    These guys seem to think it's a guys site to do as they wish while debasing the female members, and challenging them strongly if they query anything and hound them out of the site if they don't fit in with their ideas of what a domme lady is.

    This locker room attitude has been going on for some time and is chasing people away - males and females. Some men use the mini chat facility to be abusive to female members and think that is perfectly OK - no respect for anyone as they are not really people, just a wank facility.

    Some seem to come here thinking that this is a pick up joint to find a domme with ease. Which in turn encourages them to consider any female here as the equivalent of a hooker who is fair game for their fantasies and self indulgence.

    The secret is to apply the "social occasion" test - if you wouldn't do it in face to face mixed company, don't do it here.


    There is also a view that many of the female profiles are, in fact, males posting more wank material for their own ends - and those who follow them. In addition, many posts are considered more appropriate in the fiction section. Those thinking this way may be wrong of course.

    There was another chastity site, which had a reputation for being more than racy, which closed down and reappeared, and I think there was an influx of members from there and they felt the laissez faire attitude could be brought across to CM. many CM members avoided that site because they didn't like the culture - so kept themselves here and free from the other culture.

    As has been observed by [​IMG]@manintyres , this site has no adverts for porn sites and people can come here "without them being bombarded with "porn type" images and videos", and that should be noted. It's also been a "safe" environment for people new to the idea. A recent name comes to mind, who was put off by the site culture.

    I doubt much will change and the site will continue to go downhill in some people's eye, without a firm hand on what is, and is not, acceptable.

    Just my thoughts as a member of 8 plus years. Some may disagree and say they can do what they like here, but that's just my take on things having talked with people who are keeping away or just observing what's being posted.
     
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  20. perhaps it goes without saying but ......... I also appreciate the general assumption that we need to make a comfortable welcoming environment for women here at the Mansion if we are to provide any value. Without the lovely women of CM we are nowhere.
     
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  21. Ah, that clarifies things. That regretted golden age of the Mansion appears to predate either of our memberships, which explains why I could not relate to your assertion.
    What I remember from 2-3 years ago was a smoldering, occasionally flaring, ongoing feud mostly between then-current and past female moderators and rare presence on the part of the founder. Then the site almost became extinct when the founder was beset by real life issues and it was rescued by the current owner purchasing it (this is my perception as a plain member, staff may know more accurate backstory).

    I have indeed noted some occasional profanity (I personally try to refrain from such, but I'm not very sensitive to it anyway) but those flares of temper seem to me no more frequent than the manifestations of the aforementioned (more underhanded) feud. It seems that in most cases, contemporary flare ups have been triggered by issues of perceived censorship and when they have led to departures, it was some of the involved parties, not bystanders.
    Am I wrong? Is there concrete evidence that plain observers have left the site because of that, or is it just a hypothesis?

    I haven't witnessed a particularly strong increase over time of talk about "cumming" or "sex and graphic descriptions". It seems to me that bursts of such subjects ebb and flow over the weeks, just like talks of, say, cuckolding, cross-dressing, or sissies. But it's not like I'm carefully keeping statistics since i mostly use the "new posts" button and just skip threads that mention kinks I'm not interested in (with the exception of those authored by members whose discourse I've enjoyed before). Isn't that how most people use the forum?

    By the way, the density of archetypal posts about "manipulating my partner into locking me up" seems to be lower lately. I don't know why, but i doubt the staff can claim any influence over that...

    What I'd like to understand is how that relates to the perception that some kinks/subjects need to be tamped down for the sake of an overwhelming goal: to grow the participation by female budding keyholders.
    interestingly, one thing i am pretty sure of is that there are currently more posts by more female members than there were 2 years ago (when they were a rarity, except for a few particularly prolific ones).
     
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  22. I like scat-diddy wa do bop shoe run be bop be bop didlly what diddly
     
  23. Zorglub ive been here almost from the beginning and have had the honor and pleasure of meeting the founder, and some of the others who were very active here. They were all wonderful people in their own ways, and all had issues like we all do. But that's being human and what we get to see when we make friends.

    My perception is an individual or two has a vision of what they want this site to be and they aren't happy that others don't agree. They're not open to suggestions, observations such as yours or anything that differs from their vision. Worse the site owner doesn't appear to be here often, so no involvement there.

    Frankly, I've posted less in the last few weeks, and I'm almost at the point of limiting my visits again as I see little that interests me. The few people who seemed like they had much to offer likewise have stopped posting and/or visiting.

    This site will never be what it was, now that's not a good or bad thing, just a fact. But it will continue to evolve and change. Who helps shape it will determine what it becomes. Right now I don't see many people here willing to lead the effort to change it in ways some of think would be improvements. And I don't see the owner stepping up. I doubt another change of ownership would occur, but I know who I'd like to see take over if it were to happen. And I'm pretty sure what she'd do. The hard part would be getting her to want to take over and getting the current owner to part with the site.

    One thing that hasn't changed is this site is about content, it always has and will always be about the posts, and the things people put here. So in the short term the way to improve things is with better posts. You're right they ebb and flow and that won't change. But we as participants can also help shape that if we choose.
     
    Keuschling likes this.
  24. Thank you for your maturity and wisdom, because I really love to drink my wife's pee. She gave me a nice pee treat at 3 am this morning. Life is good.
     
  25. Well, on that note, I've decided for several reasons including this discussion that CM is not for me. It's certainly acceptable for CM to be open to all kink discussion to be all inclusive however I think there should also be some understanding that all kinks is not what all people want to discuss. I'm not bothered per se so I hope I'm not sounding holier than thou....it's just no longer for me.