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Kink-shaming

Discussion in 'The Pedestal' started by Living Curious, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. I have read some things lately I find disturbing posted by people I like and people I am really glad are here at CM. Their posts do no change how I feel about that. I am not speaking out against anyone, I am speaking out against an attitude that I think does a disservice to our community.

    I don’t like what has been going on lately with all the kink-shaming and people proclaiming to know what ‘vanilla women’ find acceptable and repulsive or what will drive them away from here.

    There’s much hand-wringing going on over what to do to attract and keep more female members. What I’ve seen lately is people saying, ‘if we had less of what I find disgusting then they would be more comfortable.’

    I think it’s inexcusable for a man to act like a pig or be disrespectful towards anyone, of any sex or persuasion. I also think it’s inexcusable for anyone to proclaim themselves the spokesperson for all vanilla women and sit in judgement of anyone who does things that they find distasteful.

    “Finding the bridge to vanilla” has been brought up before and it seems that recently the thought being purveyed is that the only way to do that is to remove certain topics from the site and modify the behavior of certain types of people.

    The better thing to do is to work on removing the stigma that surrounds chastity and BDSM in general.

    The solution isn’t to drag chastity out of the realm of BDSM but to make the realm of BDSM not shameful.

    Sure, I find some sissies annoying and the thought of drinking pee is nauseating. I also have the maturity and wisdom to accept those people and not judge them solely on their kinks. We shouldn’t shame those people away from the site or out of existence, we should work towards learning to accept them and not judge them for what we imagine them to be like based on a single kink or characteristic. If you find something disgusting you should still have the open-mindedness to accept that doesn’t mean the people who engage in it are disgusting. If you can’t do that then the problem isn’t them, it’s you.

    I’d also like to say that the issue of what to present ‘on the home page’ is a good discussion to have, and I think we can definitely improve the chances of making a good first impression by presenting our community differently. We can also have that discussion, and should have that discussion, without all the kink-shaming that’s been going on.
     
  2. Mistress Lucy
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    #2 Mistress Lucy, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    A lot is said about the site being "all inclusive" and welcoming all fetishes, but that means by it's nature it will put off a large number of other people, and therefore not all inclusive.

    Some people are not as open minded as others, so do the less open minded leave if they feel uncomfortable?

    There needs to be a meeting halfway, some existing members could be more thoughtful that they are on a site with women and other men who are not so open minded as themselves, and vanilla people should make an attempt to be more accepting.
     
  3. Brilliantly stated! Thank you for pointing out the irony of "Kinkster" (with upper case K) behavior. I, too, grow tired of the "my chastity is more pure than yours" attitude. How many times have we heard this reply to a legitimate question: "Whatever my keyholder wants, because I am the most awesome sub around."?

    What turns women off? It's the notion that there is an orthodox way to do chastity.

    For my part, I am certain a poll would reveal the vast majority of this site's membership to identify as "open minded liberals". (Imagine the vitriol if someone dared to ask what is thought about President Trump.) Yet this group frequently demonstrates the very sanctimony that they purport to hate.

    Nor do I hold the ladies themselves entirely blameless. While there have been several keyholding members that I'd love to connect with my wife, there are equally many that have led me to steer my wife and keyholder away from here.

    Again, well done Living Curious. I will be most curious if your post elicits self-reflection and accountability, or, will you simply rile up the self-righteous?

    Jason
     
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  4. maid_carrie
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    Nicely put @Living Curious@Living Curious :)

    Makes me think that this site is like an Online Munch, where people with all sorts of kink can come together and get to know each other as real people and kinksters of all shades.

    I have good friends here who don't share my particular kink interests, but we have become buddies because we don't compartmentalise folk nor think because we don't have common interests it is a barrier to friendship. We have a common bond that is Chastity linked to our particular line of kink.

    Long may it continue :)
     
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  5. Actually Mr Curious, you have misunderstood what I was trying to say.
    In was suggesting that it might be a nice idea if a visiting member was able to click on a tab that exposed all the other kinks.
    The ones that seem to be inextricably linked to male chastity.

    Not that they should be shamed or removed.

    So no, I don't think your rant is nicely put.

    I think it's a Knee jerk reaction.
     
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  6. As far as I can see the barrier to women being more interested in chastity are the men who try to introduce it to them in the first place. I've lost count of the amount of times some guy has described how he frantically told his wife or girlfriend how he doesn't want orgasms any more and she should lock him up and so on, and then been devastated when she runs away from him screaming get away from me you freak.

    What we need is something like a cosmopolitan article. Ten reasons you should lock up your husbands penis. Why tease and denial is so much fun. Health benefits for the chastised male. Maybe an article detailing the lifestyles of several housewife Keyholders and an honest look at why they do it.
     
  7. Lol, I still see many members every January, join here and say they bought a device and plan on giving her the keys for Valentine's Day. I wonder how often that goes over well.
     
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  8. I asked my Wife recently how she felt that first time she locked me up. She said she felt really weird, wondered what the heck she was doing and didn't in any shape or form feel excited or turned on. But she did think it was worth a go, to see what would happen. Now, not quite two years later, we have reached a point where she thoroughly enjoys her role as my keyholder and Mistress and is pushing the boundaries of what we are doing.

    That seems to be the key. Some women are not willing to go anywhere near this kink, they really do think their partner has lost their mind. Some might be willing to try if their partner was a little more relaxed in their introduction. If they try it some might end up not getting anything out of it. Some however might then have an experience like Elle, where something clicks into place and they think Holy Heck Batman, this is fun, im never going to give up this key!
     
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  9. Thanks @Living Curious@Living Curious for saying this better than I could.

    For my two cents on the subject of attracting members I don't see Chastity Mansion as a place people come to without already having an interest in chastity. It's not like some woman somewhere is randomly looking into sexual kinks she might want to try and stumble upon this as an idea. CM is a place people come to because they have discovered this and have questions. My wife and I stumbled into this accidentally. Meant to be a sex game that turned into something so much more. We both came to use CM and are both members. She is a curious lurker and I'm an active participant.

    I found the site initially helpful with the technical aspects of adjusting to gradually longer and longer term wear. Then I found it useful in discussing the various psychological elements that accompany this lifestyle. Now I see it almost as a support group like an AA meeting. Hi, my name is PPL and it's been 4 weeks since my last orgasm. :D

    If someone is put off by this site, I doubt they were likely converts to the chastity lifestyle. Making the site more vanilla won't overcome a fence sitters objections. Ultimately participation in chastity is a personal choice outside of the Internets influence. Providing a welcoming safe place where people can discuss their journey in any form is what's important for this site to do.
     
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  10. Mistress Lucy
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    #10 Mistress Lucy, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2017
    Well that is the point, it's not welcoming to some people. It's welcoming to those into a wider and more extreme range of fetishes, but not welcoming to others just into chastity. Are you saying the open minded are more important than the less open minded?

    It can drive away the very people you are saying should be welcomed.

    Edited by Mistress Jules
     
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  11. I am staying out of this one. Just thought everyone should know that. ;P
     
  12. I'm always a bit wary if someone starts off their point about how awful kink shaming is, if they first list kinks they personally find nauseating.
    What a random person's neurons respond to is nothing to do with anyone. And that works both ways, we have sections for Chastity, FLR, Cuckolds and Sissies, anything outside of that perhaps needs a spoiler warning?
    I've noticed from other forums that although a topic may be beyond the pale, it still attracts attention because people like to be horrified at whatever other people get up to.

    I like Jasmic's proposal of a Cosmopolitan article, there are a number of guides on chastity from a women's perceptive, these perhaps could be listed as a recommended starting place for new members, maybe with a safe forum area for new questions. Nobody wants to be thrown directly into the penis picture section on a Monday morning.
    Ironically I've noticed magazines like Cosmopolitan have previously recommended a "run away from him screaming get away from me you freak" type of response to Kink. Disappointing, but expected when you are paid by the word and have a perky house style to follow.
    I'd disagree that this should start from a "locked penis" perceptive, that's surely just a means to an end. The End perhaps being of more interest to women

    jasonpatalonis
    There may well be a vast majority of this site's membership that identify as "open minded liberals", but to then be surprised at a sanctimonious response is surely to misrepresent the very nature of open minded liberals, a group that I've found to be routinely closed minded, ideologically bubble dwelling, self confirming group thinking and displaying Fascistic forms of behaviour that would make your average Aryan beam with admiration.
    I would agree that notions of orthodox chastity are a bad thing.
     
  13. I think having a mechanism to toggle certain content is a brilliant idea. I'm not sure how that would work on the back end but it's a really good concept. As I stated in my original post, I think the site UX needs some changes and I haven't heard anyone disagree with that, though I admit I don't read 100% of what's posted.

    You are incorrect, I did not misunderstand what you were trying to say. My post is not knee jerk reaction, nor was it in response to the post of yours to which you are referring. In fact, I had totally forgotten about it until you just mentioned it here.
    Furthermore, this is something I've remained silent about for weeks so I've had quite some time to think about what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it. Which is basically the exact opposite of 'knee jerk.'
     
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  14. Hmmm, Political Correctness. So it begins...
     
  15. Ah then it was I who misunderstood. Probably because you used the words "Bridge to Vanilla" which is an Amandaism.
    Love you Mr Curious, miss you.
     
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  16. Surely if a member had the option to select a tab in order to peruse more extreme fetishes then the site would be more inclusive?
    Or should the core values of the forum always be geared to the lowest common denominator?
    Would the membership double if Chastity wasn't seen to automatically go hand in hand with more extreme fetishes?
    Also if the site began to attract a lot of paedophiles for example, would that kink be ok or would it be seen to be un-PC?
     
  17. Mistress Lucy
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    Do you think scat should be an ok subject here?
     
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  18. Phrases like "lowest common denominator" says it all. Paedophilia is illegal and immoral and definitely not a "kink" in my book so i don't get the argument. As far as I'm concerned if no-one is getting hurt then people can talk about anything they want. If someone started talking about scat, which I've never heard of discussed in chastity related chat, I wouldn't have anything to do with it. I wouldn't start hammering people about it though.
     
  19. Mistress Lucy
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    But what if the scat talk caused 50% of members to leave?
     
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  20. Then the remaining members would be perfectly happy.
     
  21. I'm curious what was edited? I only log in here sporadically as real life allows.

    Let me try to re-state my point using an example. I am a member of a trade association that is struggling with the generational gap. Many older baby boomer members, but not many millennials. Average age of association going up and concern raised that this is an unsustainable trend. The first reaction is to conduct major overhauls to the way the group meets and conducts business. Result, many boomers are dissatisfied with changes, become disengaged and angry. Millennial membership stays flat. Lesson learned, you don't grow your membership by alienating existing members for the unicorns you are chasing. Association resets and re-engages boomer members while starting a robust young professionals program. Result, boomers return and millennial membership and engagement rises.

    If you want to change the site to create different landing pages or create a special KH area, go ahead. Just don't drive of existing members by as this thread says "kink shaming". I think you are wrong about this site being welcoming for those "just into chastity" for two reasons. First there is no such thing as just into chastity, because there are so many different versions of what chastity is. Secondly most members first active participation is in the Foyer area. I have never seen anything, but super positive welcoming messages there that encourage people to do what works for them rather than follow a chastity script. I think the only exception that I recall was that a new member asked about having his sister being his keyholder. Even then, nothing negative, just crickets.
     
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  22. There isn't any scat talk. Here's a real world example, what if censoring the content of the forum caused 50% of users to leave?
     
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  23. Mistress Lucy
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    Then maybe they would not be as interested in chastity as they thought.
     
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  24. Perhaps part of the problem is the comparmentalization of the site and where topics are coming up. E.g. This topic does not belong in the Femdom section and should be moved. Granted it would not generate the same amount of interest and discussion if it was in other forums

    Maybe a forum for other kink topics would be appropriate albeit a lot can happen under the description "Female lead, FemDom and D/s relationships." E.g. My goddess asked me to eat her scat what should i do? (Not a real question just relating how this could easily fit the forum descriptions)

    One of the issues with over compartmentalizing the site is that it makes it harder for people to see things and therefore interact on the site.

    It is worth considering re-aligning one of the forms to be dedicated to only discussion on chastity and orgasm denial (which there is not one designated to that alone) as that could help in making it more beginner, female, and kink averse friendly. That being said kink is an integral part of my experience and many others (probably the most active group) so having large appropriate and large places for that discussion is extremely important as well
     
  25. A few site changes back (read that as a few years) the site had a really active chat room. About 35-40% of the people chatting were women. Then the site decided it needed a more solid revenue stream and chat became one of the paying member benefits.

    Guess what. The chat died, the women went away, and the feel of the entire site changed.


    It has never recovered.
     
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