Keeping it playful or going for real.. it's a jungle!

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Mandynjack, Apr 25, 2018.

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  1. Mandynjack
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    Mandynjack Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly confident that most couples pretty much live in the former not the latter. This is the dynamic that I think of being more equal in desires sought and met for both sides. A fun, sexy equilibrium if you like. But a few, mostly males (at least to begin with) have been on a journey pretty much from the get go, whether conscious or not. Seeking their holy grail of total subservience. And most females who love and adore their slightly odd but for the most part loving hubby, tend to along with it, after all, whats an hour or so of kinky play in the grand scheme of things. But the reality isn't like that is it! He really does want that control over him, that shift in power balance, he wants it, needs it and not for an hour or so per week. Of course the simple thing is to just fess up at the beginning; tell her everything, your needs, desires, obsessions, but of course it's not simple, its dangerous. Plus I know there is that bit of male psychi (sp) that thinks we girls have a natural awareness of their needs and will pick up intuitively what actions are needed to adapt/adopt the lifestyle. We don't! So where does that leave our heros? Stuck between frustration from him and confusion from her. His journey, her receptiveness to a bit of naughty fun. So to appease his inner demon, we find our boy trolling fetish sites etc, looking for some relief, maybe some like minds, advice even. He's gone a little rogue. But does it really help the thirst? Or just make him even thirstier! Poor lamb, it must be exhausting. Meanwhile, our heroine continues along, mostly oblivious to whats going on behind the scenes, but may notice he is rocking between contentment and frustrated confusion. Looks like it's easier to absent the dear wife/gf, and get needs tended in cyberspace. Plus with a bit of luck, he may get some semblance of real via those means. Somewhere in the distance, turmoil erupts, possibly building for a while. Then the discovery! Our kinky boy gets found out and the recriminations unfold. Then somewhere in the tears and loud words he hears the word "why didn't you say something?" He retorts the dangers and anxieties and 'he was trying to protect her' blah!

    So maybe after the turbulence subsides, possible break downs or possible forgiveness. But definitely our boy still has that need! But where does he now go with that? Barely hanging on, he slips further into isolated frustration, trying hard to show a visible happy boy, changed, forgiven. The moral? STOP LYING! To her and yourself. Never start this journey with a lie, it just builds. Two people on separate journeys rarely meet in the middle. If you really want to cross the tipping point, be honest, you always wanted that. Be honest up front, involve her, you may find a ground you can both live happily with. You never know, one day you may find yourself totally controlled by her, you just didn't see that bit coming. It's good to talk!
     
  2. Gigaman
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    Gigaman Active Member

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    One of the best posts I have seen on this site so far!!!!

    I wish I could put my thoughts into words like that.
     
  3. Gigaman
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    Gigaman Active Member

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    And your right Mandynjsck, it is the playful side for us. I guess a lot of males are like me and yours, it’s like you have my play book and know my operation. Not that I know it when I’m doing it. It just seems to migrate to what you posted and then I’m one sorry sub. It really does distract from the lifestyle, and take a little bit away every time it happens.
     
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  4. Panda2010
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    Panda2010 There's a fine line between pleasure and pain

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    Another thought-provoking post from @Mandynjack. I love your work.

    Honest communication is required. But there is also a balance between the guy letting his wife/gf know what he wants and letting her do it her way.
     
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  5. LadyMoon
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    LadyMoon Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Yes! I hear this so often -- I think it's a common male fantasy that a woman will be able to read his mind and enact his most secret desires without him saying a word.
     
  6. LockedPom
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    LockedPom Active Member

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    Well written post. We are in the playful category with regards to denial, kink, and “FLR”. Men do need to understand that women are not mind readers and think differently. Communication is the key to a good sex life.
     
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  7. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Well-Known Member

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    Great thought provoking post. I see myself in some of what you say as I think I am more committed to this lifestyle than my wife is. Don't get me wrong she loves it, but it's more of a struggle for her to be dominant than it is for me to be submissive. Some of it comes natural to her, but sometimes not. The drama can be small - Her "what do you want to do about dinner tonight?" Me "Whatever you tell me Mistress. I'd be happy to cook for you, go out or order in." Her "Yeah, but what do you want." Me "To please you Mistress". Then she gets mad and I'm depressed because I've upset her. Would it be better for me as a submissive when she first asked the question to simply say "I'll grill some steaks"? That doesn't seem like a submissive thing to me, it seems like I'm calling the shots.

    At the same time she really embraces other things. When she commands me to get her toys and please her. When she texts me I'll be home in 15 minutes have a nice lunch waiting for me. Just last night she came home late and woke me up to inform me that I'd forgotten to put the trash out and I needed to go add that to my punishment list right now. She expects and demands the domestic service, sexual pleasure and me to drop whatever I'm doing when she wants something. I guess we're a work in progress.
     
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  8. Fatkid57626
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    Fatkid57626 Unquestionably devoted

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    I know I try to go about it as real as possible, and impress upon her that the only boundaries she has for her power over me are self imposed, but it is not natural for her. She admits her experience so far has been very good and has no complaints or regrets so far (roughly 4 months so far). However I'm am still on my own for chastity. She has firmly said she does not want to see it or have to deal with it. I have told her my body has been offered to her, and she can accept it when she wants. And so I wait.
     
  9. LadyMoon
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    LadyMoon Well-Known Member

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    What do you think made her upset about this exchange? I will give you my perspective on it...

    If she asks you once, deferring to her decision is the right thing to do. If she asks you twice, she's probably genuinely asking for your input. Don't doubt her or force her to repeat herself, just give her WHAT SHE IS ASKING FOR. In that moment, the thing that would truly please her is to hear what you'd like for dinner!

    If you still feel hesitant, you could at least give her options: "We have some steaks in the fridge, if that's to your taste, or I'd be happy to order our favorite dishes from Tony's and pick it up. Unless there's something else you'd fancy?"

    I don't think it's un-submissive to offer opinions and input when your dominant requests it.

    Disclaimer: This is how I would handle this in my life, and it may not suit your dynamic. YMMV.
     
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  10. Mandynjack
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    Mandynjack Well-Known Member

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    (Friendly tone) So without realising, there is some bottom topping going on in your LS. When She asks 'whats for dinner' the committed sub responds ' here is the menu I have prepared for you Mistress'! The 'whatever you want Mistress' is basically giving her the question back. Try harder to make Her feel more dominant, than you feeling more submissive. When She asks, She expects you to have the answer already. That's your job as the submissive. Sometimes it's just the little things.
     
  11. Mandynjack
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    Mandynjack Well-Known Member

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    If you're committed and devoted, then it's Her thoughts and feeling that count. I wonder exactly what you are waiting for!
     
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  12. Mandynjack
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    Mandynjack Well-Known Member

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    Great counsel @LadyMoon.
     
  13. Fatkid57626
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    Fatkid57626 Unquestionably devoted

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    For her to accept my keys willingfully. I have posed it to her as they are her whenever she decides to take them.
     
  14. Mash2214
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    Mash2214 Her Locked Little Boy

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    I love the addition of your Disclaimer. You could almost add " If you are disciplined in any way for following my suggestions I will not be held Responsible" :love::love:
     
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  15. Mash2214
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    Mash2214 Her Locked Little Boy

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    It's just the little things. @Mandynjack this is were a lot of people struggle. They want to serve their Wives but really don't know How to do it.
     
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  16. Mash2214
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    Mash2214 Her Locked Little Boy

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    Don't we all
     
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  17. JiL
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    JiL servitude4u

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    Funny thing, I sometimes rather be told exactly what to do than give my input when it's requested. Fortunately, it hasn't caused too much friction to date. However, I now try to see my Brides request for input as more of a privilege which I could easily see slip away at some point. So, I try not to be such a needy little sub and give the suggestions and input in a genuine manner, even though there are times I would rather be told exactly what She wants in no uncertain terms. Truly being submissive to another can be reflected in so many ways.
     
  18. LadyMoon
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    LadyMoon Well-Known Member

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    :D ha! Yes, I recognize that every D/s relationship is different, so what *I* prefer may not be what someone else prefers. But I hoped to just offer a view from the lady's side!
     
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  19. Dr MBogo
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    Dr MBogo You heard the lady! In you go.....

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    Without question, I am controlled by my beautiful wife/KH. She obviously manages our sex life, but also handles our finances. She pays all the bills and gives me an "allowance". She also handles our portfolio/retirement. I am wrapped around her finger, without doubt, in almost every sense.
     
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  20. CDL
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    CDL As You Wish.....

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    Maybe the BEST post I've read......ever! I think I've read it thru about 10 time now. How accurate, insightful and honest. As a 46 year old man who's been fascinated and obsessed with bondage and fetish since as far back as I can remember (playing cops and robbers I was always the one tied up / as a young boy seeing a woman in a leather skirt....wow) I can both relate and sympathize in the fear of telling someone, anyone about your desires. Why do I have them? Am I "normal"? What's wrong with me? Then you meet "the one" and it becomes very real. I want to spend my life with this woman, and I want her to share my kinks (which I don't really understand, accept or feel comfortable with).....but HOW can I possibly tell her? So you work up the courage (and any man who's gone thru this knows, it take the MOST courage you can EVER imagine) and you tell her you'd like her to wear some shiny clothes, maybe a pair of vinyl panties and a bra?! You're certain she will think you're the biggest pervert that's ever lived..... and she says "sure". What?! Just like that? You're relieved and confused at the same time. What you cannot understand is that your wife is taking it a face value (it's a bra and panties and yes, they are vinyl and it's maybe a bit weird and kinky, but.....ok). The problem is that YOU (see....ME) are NOT. You've been excited, scared, ashamed of your desires for as long as you've had them and now sharing them (even just the slightest bit) with your wife is SCARY AS HELL. Even though she said "sure" to the bra and panties you're certain she secretly thinks your a pervert. From there the journey continues as you try to introduce her, little by little to your desires. But you're scared.....TO DEATH. You want to take it slow, you know you should, but it's so hard, because you want so much more and you've wanted it for so long. For me, what I really wanted (or thought I wanted) was my wife as a dominating mistress dressed head to toe in latex.....lots and lots of shiny latex, including a hood, of course. I wanted to be her slave, tied up with lots of "gear" and used, abused and.....whatever.

    Now fast forward 23 years later and there have been so many tears, so many sleepless nights, so many hurt feelings and so much desperation. But, along with that there has been so much growth, so much love, so much understand, and (believe it or not) a great deal of delightfully kinky, satisfying sex! I AM A LUCKY, LUCKY MAN! My wife has accepted me for who I am, kink and all. Does she "get" it? No, not at all! Does she get the same excitement as I do from bondage and fetish wear? No, not at all! How can she to be honest? is it now easy? No, not all the time....but, we have make it work. We've progressed to having a "secret" room under the stairs for all the "stuff" I've purchased.....there's a lot! Just opening the door makes my heart race! My amazing wife puts up with a lot! Now, the next phase on my seemingly never ending journey is chastity. OMG I never knew.... I'm submissive, always have been but this has unlocked a side of my submissiveness that I had no idea existed! But it's not just submissive, what I crave and need is to be controlled....by MY WIFE (Miss D as I know call her). We've experimented with me being caged and I really enjoy it (of course). But I'm terrible at actually being submissive and giving her control! I'm trying, but....

    So, this is where this post really touched me......the man needing to be controlled and having so many thoughts and desires, but how to share them with his wife? Your wife finding your "stash" whether it be physical or virtual or both. The turning to the internet, not to look at porn (at least not for me) but rather for information, confirmation and acceptance for who he is. Needing to find like minds (which is why this site exists, of course). The hoping your wife can read your mind and provide for you what you desire (even though for me I still don't know exactly what that is, as it evolves). The "why didn't you just tell me"......well, because I just didn't think I could. I didn't think you'd understand. I didn't think you'd still love me.

    I've rambled.....my apologies. This post really struck a nerve, obviously. As a submissive man MADLY in love with my wife I can say that I wish we had talked more (especially early on). I wish I'd had the courage. I wish I'd trusted in the amazing woman I married, knowing she would stick with me and understand. But none of us can change the past. Today, we are in a very good place. We are just starting to explore chastity and orgasm control and I (predictably) am very excited with this. I LOVE giving my orgasms (hell, not just orgasms but even erections) to Miss D! She's NOT dominant....at all....but she loves me and is trying. We discover new things seeming daily at times. I need to CHILL THE F OUT! She needs to be given the space and latitude to take this new journey in the direction that works for her. I need to accept that direction and know it's NOT going to be the direction I want (except that it is - because what I REALLY want is for Miss D to be happy and in control). So, so often it seems us needy, kinky, submissive men find amazing, loving, not kinky, not dominant women. It's a precarious mix, but it can be great.....it should be great. Men - relax and trust. Be honest and open. Women - accept your husbands desires as who he is. Know how hard it is for him to share them. Know that he just wants to serve you and make you happy!!
     
  21. Locked in love
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    Locked in love Active Member

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    Guilty as charged. I do this often thinking I'm submissive but I realize I'm likely pissing her off. Thank you.
     
  22. Felix cum ea
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    Felix cum ea Vanilla Chaste

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    Interesting thread, very interesting.

    Here is our (my Wife's and mine) history and our present semi-vanilla arrangement:


    I had been playing on and off with chastity a long time without talking with my wife about that.. I just confronted her sometimes with me wearing a cage, even had a full belt at some time. To make things worse: I even managed to make a PPT presentation about my fantasy to see Her with another man and to be controlled by Her..:mad:


    Stupid me, thinking this was all She needed, even thinking it was a dream come through for Her…


    I was literally pushing Her away from me..


    Years came and went in this (worsening) situation, with me trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, I gave Her all luxury and financial security, provided for our family with two sons etc.., so what else? :confused:


    Looking back now on this situation which lasted far too long I can only admit how stupid I was and how lucky I was that the bond between Her and me was still so strong, considering that I was the one that unintentionally was pushing Her away from me.. :pray:


    Fast forward some years: our relation had finally reached an all time depth to the point where our marriage of 18 years was at stake.. :sos:


    I finally woke up and evaluated what it is was that I cherished most in my life: my relation with MY WIFE, first kiss in 1987, married in 1991, first kid in 1993 followed by the second in 1995, I realized then that She was and still is my winning lottery ticket (figuratively)…:love:


    I finally opened up and started talking with Her and She proposed to go into counseling as we had grown too far away from each other by the time of that serious talk. With tears in my eyes I hugged my wife, agreed and told Her that losing Her was the last thing that I ever wanted to happen. I said I still loved Her like in the beginning and that She was and still is my winning lottery ticket… :love:


    We have been in counseling (both together and each separate with other counselors) for over a year and have really grown back closer to each other…:pray:


    We had returned to listening to and talking with each other like in the first decade of our marriage and have come out of this episode in our lives stronger than before.:strong:


    Then some three years ago (and after great advice of friends here at the CM - thank you for that!), I had “the talk” regarding chastity :lock:, me wanting to put Her on a pedestal, etc…


    Much to my surprise She was open for this idea and even thanked me for willing to do that for Her. :+1:


    However she did not want to be my keyholder (and still isn’t today) and I agreed to never put any pressure on Her regarding this… after all I only wanted to re-confirm to Her that She is and always will be my first priority!:love:


    After being in chastity for about 1.5 years, really having grown ever closer to each other, I wanted to make things more in Her control and offered Her the usufruct over my penis/balls and accompanying erections/ejaculations in which I did not ask Her to become my keyholder (to avoid any pressure), just offering Her my commitment to do this and that without asking any commitment from Her in this area. (with kind of an official usufruct contract, outlaying my duties and her rights)


    Today we still live this arrangement and we are happy with it!:):cool:

    For Her: I’m still the man in the household (so to speak) and..

    For me: she is my Princess whom I am allowed to put on a pedestal and spoil as much as she wants/allows.:rolleyes::love::kiss::)


    We respect each other so we will never put any undesired pressure on the other one.


    Our dynamic is not FLR, it is just an arrangement which works for us both and which we discuss openly with each other.

    Consider this as my testimony how wrong it is to expect your Wife to embrace your fantasies and change immediately to be the one you would like Her to be in your fantasies.

    Thanks for indulging me this long post, I’m so full of my Wife and our path that I had to share it with someone and this seems like a good place to do so.
     
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  23. Fatkid57626
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    Fatkid57626 Unquestionably devoted

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    I seem to be in month 3 of this exact path.
     
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  24. Felix cum ea
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    Felix cum ea Vanilla Chaste

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    I wish you all of luck and wisdom for an outcome similar or even better than ours, I can confirm it was and still is worthwhile to do all these efforts (by both of us) to cherish the love you felt when you got married: "till death do us apart" etc, but really I'm so glad that she gave me this chance and that I took it. Our love has only grown since then..
    Good luck @Fatkid57626 :+1:
     
  25. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Ladies First.

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    Ohh, @Mandynjack ... you hit this nail right on the head ... why am I not surprised?
    And, your style of writing here makes me smile.

    For me, my journey began unconsciously.
    In college, Mistress Robin found someone that 'fit the bill' - and taught me 'the ropes'.
    Of course at first, for me, it was fun sexually - then slowly, through discussion, education, conditioning & encouragement - I bought into the concept of FLR.
    For her, I think I was always a science experiment.
    After college (we didn't really keep in touch), I started to recognize this went far deeper than I ever thought.
    I was tired of a patriarchal society & was ready for a shift - mR only fine tuned it.
    And for that, I am grateful.

    Jump forward a few relationships ...
    My wife (of 25 years now) was not familiar with my choice of lifestyle.
    Since the day I met her, she has been a no-nonsense women who doesn't take shit from anyone. She shares many of by societal beliefs but kept them 'under wraps". Through my encouragement, she let her Domme out slowly - at first it was surely for me but after some time, she began to see how it could fit in with her greater beliefs.

    Mandy, you and I have had a few discussions about 'real' Domme's - some women are 100%'ers & some aren't - it doesn't matter so much what the guy wants her to be.
    I've shared I have wanted someone 'stricter' and wanted to experience more 'powerlessness' ... but how far she wants to go isn't up to me. I won't pressure her into something she doesn't feel comfortable with (or doesn't want to do!).

    Luckily for me, she has come to find a home with this lifestyle - that include benefits for her & me. It hasn't always been an easy journey - but with both of us insisting on constant & honest communication, we can minimize the guesswork.

    ~ ~ ~ ~

    I cant possibly quote all the folks who have shared here that stuck a deep & resonant chord with me!
     
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