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Isn't chastity all about manipulating men by withholding orgasms?

Discussion in 'The Pedestal' started by Vinny, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Women and men manipulate each other by taking advantage of sexual weaknesses/desires all the time. We manipulate our parents, our bosses, clients and all that we negotiate with. I have a Machiavellian personality professionally diagnosed, so I manipulate all that I can in life. I pose the question of isn't chastity all about manipulating men through orgasm control? I know that every woman I dated manipulated me in some way by using sex or the promise of sex. My wife manipulates me as I manipulate her. My boss manipulates me using money and my former coaches manipulated me because they decided if I played or not. I manipulate my customers so that they buy my services and manipulate the people I negotiate with. We all manipulate what we can in life to make it more to our liking. I do not think that manipulation is bad per say. No more than all the lies we tell others to get what we want or to spare someone's feelings. Lies and manipulation is neither good nor bad, as they depend on the reasons used and if they helped or hurt. I used positive reinforcement to get my wife to become my key holder and never forced her into anything. I never withheld sex from her to get her to behave as I wanted her to. She now likes chastity play more than I do. Isn't that interesting? :) I may try to manipulate her from time to time but after 5 years, that does not work anymore. I have manipulated her into not being manipulated anymore.:)

    One more thing. When a forum is composed of 99.5% men, it is a boy's club. If more than a few women were interested in joining, it would be different. I think the problem is that sometimes dominant women who join predominately male forums, expect to be viewed and treated as their subs do. The only one who gets my submission and to be called Mistress, even though she hates that title, is my wife. She is, after all, the one who manipulates my behavior by withholding my orgasms. :) It works too!

    That post by Mistress Lucy, which is now closed, got me thinking that chastity is all about manipulation and not blind submission to a superior female. The latter is perhaps more BDSM. It is simply different points of view, which is not uncommon among males and females, as to what kind of fetish you are into. So skipping the part about banning certain posts which is a different discussion, I am interested in your feelings about manipulating wives to become key holders. I think it rare that a wife or lover would just accept the keyholder role without some sort of manipulation, as it is against most woman's treatment of a loved one. If it were not for manipulation of some sort, I would have never got my wife of 45 years to marry me, had real life dominants, did a lot of kinky things or had as much sex in my life as I have had. My wife was the one who agreed to wife swap and have threesomes with other women, I never asked. It was all her doing or was it??????? :)
     
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  2. I have had an ongoing conversation with my therapist about this very topic. In my view I have constructed a delicate web that took years to spin in order to get to where we are today. I marvel at the sublime beauty of so many aspects of our play every time I stop to think about it. I convinced the wife to cuckold me. I found the Bull. That they have some chemistry and have been together going on 6 years is a huge part of what makes this so hot and fun. I've seen the look of love in her eyes when she gazes at her Bull. I am living a dream that I wove and put into motion. I am immersed in my dream like no other time in my entire life and it is glorious!

    My therapist's response: pretty much "meh".

    "Humans being humans" was the exact response.

    Huh? GTFO!

    I walked into that session on a cloud, so proud to tell my therapist that I am living my dream and being alice much more in real time.

    I walked out of that session feeling like my little airplane got shot out of the sky.

    So my therapist doesn't buy the master manipulator jazz, even when I try to claim it. Everybody else has their own dharma and maybe I'm just lucky and it's a coincidence all of our paths run together.

    Maybe it's the law of attraction. That's what a Domme told me when I asked where she had been all my life.

    So far every Domme that I have spoken with agrees that I am as spoiled as can be.

    My wife says that is going to change.
     
  3. I agree that chastity is about manipulation, whether it's a kh modifying behavior, or the lockee manipulating a kh to modify his behavior.

    Where I didn't agree on that thread, is where chastity is some sort of girls rule men drool mentality. Like you vinny I do not respond to being dominated or subservient to anyone else besides my partner. Chastity for me isn't all men being manipulated by any woman. And as much as I have given my sexuality to her, we are equals. Even as I allow her to manipulate my behavior through sex, lack of sex, or other duties, she respects my opinions, and anything concerning the both of us would be decided together.

    The only odd thing I have noticed is how many men ask how to get their wife to do something. Making an activity you desire worth while to her instead of work for her should be a relatively simple way of manipulating someone. It's not horrible to show cause and effect, heck I've done it without even knowing...she told me she can tell the difference when I Orgasm, and I wasn't even trying.

    Comparing it to training a dog is very off putting...it's more like training a dog trainer. The dog whisperer doesn't really train dogs, he trains owners to train their dogs. He explains the dogs thinking, it's feelings, and how to channel the behavior you desire and make the behaviors you don't, not worth doing.

    I see nothing wrong with telling someone after they ask "how do I get my wife to cage me" that they should be honest about needing her help with your behavior, and when they agree, to focus on making it worth their while to keep you caged. Is that manipulation...yeah I suppose it is...after awhile it doesn't matter because she now sees the benefits to her and is more than willing to keep at it and as in my case...wouldn't stop without a valid reason and some serious discussion. Even then, compromises would happen before we quit all together.
     
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  4. Mistress Lucy
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    Mistress Lucy L-u-c-y
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    #4 Mistress Lucy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Can you point out where I have said that males other than my subs should submit to me? You keep bringing this up like it's a fact. You seem caught up with the idea that I am trying to dominate you, just because I disagree with you does not mean I am trying to dominate you.
     
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  5. Is chastity about manipulating you partner into witholding your orgasms and knowing that she will learn the advantages to her of doing so, obviously she has to to become motivated?

    That is clearly the start of things, the game if you will, potentialy though not necessarily the start of a lifestyle. All that follows is dependent on so many other things, your jobs, home set up, who else is there..children.. parents... and of course the dynamic of your relationship before chastity and how it evolves after.

    Have I introduced women to chasity play? Yes of course. Did I manipulate them? Probably / possibly but that like initially topping from the bottom is necessary no matter how subtly to get things going initially, perhaps not always nor for everyone but pretty much.

    Yes I have always admitted it when I hand over full control to her.
    So once the intro so to speak is over and I both cease to and admit to having done topping from the bottom have I been aware of being manipulated? Not really I don't think but then again women are generally good at manipulation so perhaps some things I thought of as being my or our joint idea were initially hers.. perhaps they all were even getting into chastity in the first place.

    Now there is food for thought.
     
  6. Lady, you have a lot to learn about how to interact with others if that wasn't your intention. You use being female as an excuse for rudeness because you believe that as a domme you are allowed. I could go on, but this is neither of our threads, and if you would like to continue in a calm fashion, do so privately.
     
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  7. Mistress Lucy
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    #7 Mistress Lucy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Exactly, you can't. You need to get past the idea that I am trying to dominate you, then things can move on.

    I don't know if you have noticed, but I do not get involved in any of your posts (unless you mention me), this is because any interaction I have with you descends into you saying I am trying to dominate everyone. It would be nice if you could return the courtesy and not reply to threads I start.
     
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  8. Sometimes chastity is a form of body modification lite, and an expression of submission.
     
  9. I wholly disagree that "that's what chastity is about". It is always going to be about different things to different people.

    For us, it's "about" me voluntarily giving Mrs control of my "manhood" as a symbol of my devotion and submission to her and her ownership of me.

    One can own something because through manipulation or strategem one wrests control of it from someone else, or one can own something because one was given it as a gift. IMHO, the latter is far more meaningful.
     
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  10. I see you are editing posts again...it didn't say all that before. I don't think you are dominating me, I think you are rude and use the circumstance of being female as an excuse for poor behavior. You are a child that needs to get the last word, I told you if you wanted to continue this to do it in private, instead you threw another fit. Go ahead and delete another one.
     
  11. Mistress Lucy
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    Yes I added some more to my post. I wouldn't call it throwing a fit.
     
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  12. SubVerity
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    SubVerity The Mansion's own Fairy Godmother!
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    *...drums fingers....waits for thread to regain composure....*
     
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  13. This thread is sponsored by Butterkist Popcorn :)
     
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  14. I manipulated my Wife by asking her to be my keyholder. She agreed but didn't really know what it was going to be about, she just thought it might be fun. Then, when she had been through several cycles of denying me for a few weeks, I manipulated her by letting her see how my response to what she was doing to me increased the further I got from my most recent orgasm. For instance, after a few weeks of denial, falling over in the shower when she started stroking my bottom. Then I manipulated her by bursting into tears after a two month denial period when she let me orgasm, the feelings were so intense the emotions just took over.

    Somehow I manipulated her into preferring orgasms provided by oral methods and with Yoni massages. Now she doesn't miss what she calls conventional sex, so my denial periods are an average of a minimum of two months. At first I was worried she was denying herself to make me happy. I asked her that not long after we started and she agreed that on occasion she was going without to make sure I was happily denied. I asked her again a few weeks ago and she just laughed and asked me if I was kidding.

    By the way, our initial use of a chastity device had nothing to do with chastity itself, so all this manipulation was happening without me actually realizing it!

    So, to all of those men who frantically ask how they can get their wife into this chastity thing, my answer is simple. Make it fun for her. Make it worthwhile for her. Make it about her, not you. The problem is, while that should be easy, for most men it appears to be almost impossible.
     
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  15. Till late i thought I understood english really well, but lately I tend to think that I need someone to explain me the term "manipulation" as I would never use it as excessive as it is used here.
    Most postings imply that there can be no communication without "manipulation", but for me having a conversation with my better half - even with the goal of convincing her of something - wouldn't be be manipulation as the manipulation ( I think) we are talking about includes a certain backward way to get your goal.

    If we are talking about manipulation in a value-free way as a synonym for modification I tend to agree that it is sometimes used in FLRs or any other kind of BDSM-relationship. Pesonally I have still some trouble regarding chastity as I don't think that it can influence behaviour. Maybe in some roleplay kind of way, but no more than that
     
  16. In regard to the OPs initial question

    "Isn't chastity all about manipulating men by withholding orgasms?"

    My KH had this to say.

    Of course it is... what a silly question.

    So that told me. .. and who am I to argue?
     
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  17. Mistress Lucy
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    #17 Mistress Lucy, Sep 6, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
    In my opinion most subs will want and enjoy being manipulated by the dominant partner, that is part of the whole thing. But the dominant partner will not take kindly to manipulation attempts by the submissive.