How long is a piece of string?

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Tom Allen, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Well, I'm not really asking about string. My real question is "How long is 'permanent'?" or more correctly, what do we mean when we use the term?

    A few weeks ago on Tumblr, I saw something like "I'm in permanent chastity for the rest of the month." When we get to the point where "permanent" is a few weeks, then maybe we need a new lexicon.

    Naturally, I understand that there are nuances in usage, and we often need clarification when we discuss this. When someone says that they are in "permanent chastity," both the dick-measurers and the curious newbs ask what the person actually means, and from the answers that I've seen over the years, it almost never means "I have a device locked on my junk that never, ever comes off." Generally, the situation is more like "I'm locked up 24/7, except for occasional cleaning and hygiene breaks," but sometimes it means "I'm locked up until my partner wants to play," which may be weekly, monthly, or randomly.

    From those responses, the newbs are usually impressed ("Wow, the longest I've been locked up is 12 days!"), while the dick-measurers often jump in to the effect that they measure "permanent" in some completely different (and inherently better, sniff, sniff) way. ("Wash breaks? I have an open cage so it doesn't need to come off for that.").

    To make things even more confusing, some people confound "chastity" with "denial." ("Your domme allows you to have an orgasm every month? That's not permanent enough - I haven't had one in three years."). Sometimes you see guys wondering if ruined orgasms "count," ("How ruined was it?"). And where do those people who abstain without a device fall into this matrix?

    I don't actually have an answer, but I will note that the "chastity community" (such as it is) has existed for at least fifteen years in various online forums, and I'm amazed that there now seems to be less agreement or understanding of the terms than ever. I'm suggesting that, when you consider the proliferation of inexpensive devices, and how they are making their way into the mainstream kink world, maybe it's time that we come up with a more consistent syntax or usage for the terms that we over toss around - before we start seeing statements like "I'll be in permanent chastity all weekend."
     
  2. jemima
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    jemima maid for my Mistress

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    I never know as well what a lot of them mean. I have just google it and this is what it sayed.

    lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.
     
  3. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Yes, we all know what the dictionary says, but that's not what happens in the real world. Last year, we all saw minasbitch "permanently" lock a titanium cage on... which lasted about six months before he had to drill out a screw or something.

    Do we have to stop even using that word?
     
  4. Giveitup
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    Giveitup Active member

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    You have to laugh. The Internet age, where speed is more important than language or accuracy; where spell-check has replaced the need to learn how to spell; the politicization of the education system, where activism is more valued than STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering & Math) - formerly known as "Reading, Writing and Arithmetic;" has resulted in a overall dumbing-down of people's communication skills.

    After all, we live in a time where those who govern spew things like, "I think that there's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right."

    Sigh. Once upon a time, words meant things. Now everything is a shade of grey...

    per·ma·nent
    /ˈpərmənənt/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.
      "a permanent ban on the dumping of radioactive waste at sea"
      synonyms: lasting, enduring, indefinite, continuing, perpetual, everlasting, eternal, abiding, constant, persistent, irreparable, irreversible, lifelong, indissoluble, indelible, standing, perennial, unending, endless, never-ending, immutable, unchangeable, unalterable, invariable, unchanging, changeless, undying, imperishable, indestructible, ineradicable;
    My vote is "permanent" chastity means just that: The cage is never, ever coming off. No cleaning. No release for sex or teasing. No orgasms. No erections. Never again. Anything else is "long-term." Is that practical? Not really. I suppose that if you had the right metal cage, could keep it hygienically safe, never had to worry about medical issues (such as surgery or an MRI) perhaps, in theory, it would be possible.

    One man's opinion... feeling too young to be a dinosaur, but slowing recognizing that it may be too late.
     
  5. thundar
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    thundar Member

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    The only thing that is permanent is the fact that there will be change
     
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  6. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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  7. jasonpatalonis
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    Perhaps even more maddening than the endless attempts to tie down the meaning of "permanent" is the inevitable "I'm more chaste than you" exhortations that follow. (as Tom points out)

    My absolute favorite (and not in a good way) is the use of the trump card: "Whatever mistress says." That statement is intended to end all debate and discussion.

    I can almost guarantee that when someone says, "How long should I be locked up for?", someone will reply with the cliche "Whatever mistress wants". That's usually a sufficient buzzkill to stop further discussion.
     
  8. Giveitup
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    While I may cede control of my genitalia, through male chastity to my wife/keyholder, what if I do not recognize her, or any other woman, as my "mistress?" Therefore, that argument would be null and void, right?
     
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  9. Shepherdsflock
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    I can hold my breath permanently for 30 seconds.
     
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  10. love4lock
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    love4lock Active member

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    Wow. Tom Allen. This is great. I thank you for your literary genius. Speaking of genius, which is one level below insane by the way, the definition of chastity insanity is using the same word over and over again expecting readers to understand something different.

    Love a good deciphering of the English language and the use or misuse of it. I am impressed as on the other posting with your continued diatribe? Will this be a permanent place for vocabulary definitions? Perhaps Lucy could give you a permanent space for a glossary of terms that we can consult before posting. Then we could consult it also if we are reading a post.

    You definitely cannot use indefinitely to mean permanent. An athlete out indefinitely with an injury can still come back and play. It is a unknown period of time, with an end, unless followed in the sentence by a qualifier, such as forever, or unending.

    Permanent, on the other hand, does not need a qualifier.

    That said, in all my dialog, I realized that I must now use a qualifier because I may myself now be indefinitely unqualified to list myself as permanent without quantifying it because I do (OMG) remove the cage about once a month to give the undercarriage a little "how's your father" (Austin Powers).

    So now I face the conundrum of not knowing what I am anymore. I indefinitely await your permanent answer to this dilemma.
     
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  11. sixofthebest
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    Tom,

    Lots of Sturm und Drang over word choice. You are right - "Permanent" has a specific meaning and is often used incorrectly here. On the other hand, it is a word that for many is essential to the concept of chastity. Ideally, chastity is not an on again off again practice, locked or otherwise. In intention, it is "permanent." I suspect that the word "permanent," when applied to the locked state, contributes mightily to the romantic, erotic, and other motivations of participants. It excites. Call its use poetic license?

    Perhaps "Indefinite" is a more accurate choice of words when one is needed to describe an unknown or undisclosed period of time that falls between moments and "permanent." So, we then have three conditions:
    1. "Permanent" = No release, ever.
    2. "Specific period of time = As in the term of a sentence, one is to be locked - for example - for 30 days. No release for the entire 30-day period. Period!
    3. "Indefinite" = Locked for an unknown or undisclosed period of time. This might or might not include estimated periods of time such as "about a month" and periods that are at the whim of the KH.
    In any of these cases, arrangements for hygiene, etc. may or may not be part of the bargain and are usually at the discretion of the KH?

    What do you think?

    Jamie
     
  12. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    I use "permanent" to describe my current state, but often put quotes around it, or qualify it as "permanent, as in that window is permanently nailed shut."

    My personal definition is:
    • Device is sealed in some way that requires effort, perhaps cost, and certainly care to remove: If there's a key to hand or it comes off for cleaning, it doesn't count.
    • All involved treat the device as a body modification: If it's all about when will she release me? then that's not permanent.
    For me, it has to be both to count.The psychological and relationship effects are quite different - but in no way superior - to keyholding style chastity.

    By this measure, @Minas bitch - who I think I may now have surpassed? - was in permanent chastity, as is anybody who has his lock glued up or device riveted.

    @sixofthebest is right that "indefinite" is probably a more accurate term, though I would stipulate that it has to be indefinite in the minds of both parties, like if you move into a house and you're going to stay their for an indefinite period, but you know you'll eventually sell up.

    However, in our community "permanent" has always been used as a synonym for "sealed" and I want people to understand what I mean.
     
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  13. PouchPantyLover
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    Many good points in this thread, but I like this one the most. I do think sometimes we get too hung up on labels and being the most chaste. Everyone is different and every relationship is different. I suspect that the people that talk the biggest talk are least likely to be walking the biggest walk. For me I'll use the term indefinite going forward. Could be cumming tomorrow, next month, next year or never. Who knows?
     
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  14. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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    It would be nice if our topic wasn’t exaggerated, because once something is distorted, it gives credence for others to do the same.

    In general I believe it hinders real expectations and activities. So when I read about someone use “permanent” it is a very powerful word.

    Chastity is a permanent part of our life. The device still is removed periodically, orgasms happen periodically, and we still have sex. We have however agreed, that her being the deciding factor of when any of this happens is permanent.
     
  15. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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  16. tecolote
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    I'm in periodic chastity permanently.
     
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  17. Shepherdsflock
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    For us the use of the device is permanent. There are practical limitations where it needs to come off. I have to go through TSA occasionally, I may need surgery (and did two years ago), skin irritations or infections can happen. There are several reasons why it may need to be removed, but in ordinary circumstances it will always be worn.
     
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  18. sylvana chastity
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    sylvana chastity just Syl

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    Yes, the term "permanent" is used a bit inflationary these days - same as "eternally" (and let me assure you: the eternety can get a bit boring - especially close to the end! :p:D).

    Think most people using all this don't intend to reinvent the laws of nature or physical values but try to describe how they FEEL about their chastity...?
     
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  19. Tom Allen
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    Tom Allen Member

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    Again, I want to stress that I'm aware that there are nuances to how we use these terms.

    We live in the real world (well, most of us) and there are practical limitations to what we can/will or can't/won't do. For example, while I'm aware that *in theory* I can wear my device on an airplane, in practice I really do not want the potential hassle of that one TSA (or foreign equivalent) agent not knowing what the hell that hunk of metal in my pants is doing there (or in my luggage), so I've traveled sans device, and carried along a plastic CB3000 to put on after we hit the destination.

    Likewise, both Mrs Edge and I like the ridiculously named A272. It's a solid tube device, and in the interests of cleanliness, etc., it's going to come off at least once a month for a couple minutes in the shower. It has come off for a few doctor's visits, a couple of routine medical procedures, and (at her insistence), for a few hours when I was doing something potentially dangerous and of questionable legality (she didn't want any issues with an EMT needing to cut through the metal). In other words, you could measure the time I've been unlocked over the past year in hours.

    A lot of you are in similar circumstances. You've been wearing a device for months, or even years. You have few, possibly random, or even no orgasms, and you're probably going to be locked up for a good portion of the rest of your lives. The term "permanent" here is not used in the literal sense, but is poetic, figurative, evocative. It conveys an idea of what your situation is. And I'm not suggesting that you stop using the term in such a fashion.

    However...

    When we do use a term in a figurative sense, without having a foundation for what the literal circumstances would be, we help set the tone for people to use it in less and less literal ways, until we finally arrive at something like "I'll be in permanent chastity for the entire weekend."
     
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  20. slavesw
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    slavesw Member

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    I think quite often people read to much into what’s written and what’s meant by permanent. For someone who first locked a month can seem like eternity, is eternity permanent? For long term wearers “permanent” could be just that but with occasional release for hygiene. It’s not always the same for everyone.
     
  21. Andylocked
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    Andylocked Active member

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  22. Andylocked
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    Andylocked Active member

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    I fully concur... and I also have the feeling that you find such flagrant use of the term ‘permanent’ as annoying as I do when people spell ‘lose’ as ‘loose’!!
     
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  23. sixofthebest
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    While Tom may not have lost his mind over this topic, he has loosed it upon us all.
     
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  24. PouchPantyLover
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    I always get unlocked to go sailing. The reason is guys are expected to pee standing up off the back of the boat. I don't want to do my impression of a fire sprinkler when I need to go. :D
     
  25. Andylocked
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    AAAAARRGGHHH!!!
     
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