Update Discrete advertising

Discussion in 'Site announcements and information' started by L-u-c-y, Apr 22, 2018.

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  1. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    More on this thread later. Whilst I wholly welcome this development in principle, I also see pitfalls if due diligence not taken. I did research for Jens backalong on this for which he was most grateful.

    The problem is as I see it taking on an advertiser without due diligence who turns out to be a crook. One plausible such I identified for Jens was LockedinSteel (owned by Jillian on FL), based in New Hampshire (USA), who started very plausibly and then cut and run with hundreds of customers defrauded. She ran an FL group for years on FL called LockedinSteel, which she deleted following literally thousands of complaints from disaffected customers, though there is still another group (Locked in Steel screwed me started by another FL member) still extant though now dormant due to history. That woman would be behind bars were it not for the antediluvian New Hampshire legal system.

    Meanwhile I would want to echo the thanks we all need to owe to Jens for keeping this site going, mostly at his own very personal expense to a huge amount, over the past few years. He rescued it from MW when she was no longer able to maintain it and she anyway needed to move to pastures new. But for Jens and his contributions. financially and otherwise, CM would now be long dead. So I am saddened he has not posted for some months now. That said: we all need a break at times, and life intervenes. as it has recently done for me more than somewhat.

    As I said, more on this later.
     
  2. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Ladies First.

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    There also has to be some aspect of self serving capitalism involved here.
    I dont say that in a derogatory way - only that if a company is spending their money advertising here, it must be in part with the hope of making a few sales.
    There seems to be an overlap of interests - and that counts for something as well - a sort of symbiotic relationship.

    I only overlapped Jens for a short time - I miss him too.
    If its space he needs, he has earned it!

    In some ways, I miss being able to donate - because it gave me a sense of contributing to something greater than myself. I definitely want to play a part in CM's betterment & success.
    I appreciate that there is a capable team that took over the reins.
     
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  3. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    There is indeed. I have calculated that without the advertising Jens will have contributed about £2000 annually for three years or so out of his own pocket to keep CM going. Which means that a not dissimilar sum (though maybe less if part of the back costs were capital) is needed ongoing. This is massive. In the interim Jens also lost his partner and key holder. So if I have had any disagreement with him (which I occasionally have) I treat it as de minimis.

    So even if the advertising means that contributions are no longer needed, I should still wish the option open (and in Danish kroner as prior) shoultd advertising revenue fail in the future for whatever reason.

    In this I have had very serious doubts about the integrity of the original advertiser, discrete sensations. I had inquiries made of them, outside of CM. and was very disturbed by the result. They appear to be online only, have no retail outlet anywhere, and go to inordinate lengths to conceal their whereabouts. They are registered under an alias in California, though appear to operate out Oregon. They also appear to make no items themselves, but just act as middle men for other suppliers at a cut. Easier to order therefore from the makers. I would not touch them with a barge pole.

    I hope Bon4 will be better. I am considering this further too.

    Joro
     
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  4. L-u-c-y
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    L-u-c-y CO-Owner of CM
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    Hi joro,

    Jens has now had a sizeable lump sum of his investment back. He was also paying a large monthly payment for server costs, he is now paying zero. I found a more cost effective server company and I'm making the payments.

    If there comes a point when we have no advertisers I will gladly accept members donations again, as I will be paying the server costs out of my own pocket otherwise.

    Discrete Sensations is an online store run by a CM member who offered to advertise. I think you'll find most online companies are online only. They don't profess to make any products, they sell other companies products, that's what a store does, Amazon for example. I doubt bon4 or any chastity device maker has a high street outlet either.
     
  5. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    I am glad to hear most of this. I am so glad that Jens is now paying zero and has had most of his investment back. But I should still like the donation option retained. Just in case.

    I hear what you say on discrete sensations but they are still more secretive than is healthy. I know a lot of other outfits trade online only, but the reputable ones are a lot more open about their contact details and directors/addresses etc. And anyone can join CM,

    And many if not most suppliers/makers have F2F outlets. BehindBarz for a start: one can turn up, inquire, get measured. order, whatever. Same with Neosteel. Same also with Tollyboy when they traded in Dronfield: I went there myself once to their famous No 100.
     
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  6. Mistress Jules
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    Mistress Jules Professional Dominatrix and Owner of Lockit
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    I think when you are dealing with a sexual fetish or sex store there are many that would like to keep their true identity quiet. I for one would not be putting a company on companies house where my neighbours and colleagues in my vanilla life could find out I was running a company selling sex toys.

    How many of us here would be open about our contact details? I was a pro domme and never once used my real name or my real contact details.

    I don't think all retail outlets are equal when it comes to sex toys lol
     
  7. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    I stand by what I said. Suppliers of goods are suppliers of goods so need to have a public profile for transparency. Neosteel and BehindBarz are typical. Those who did not, like LockedInSteel, run by the notorious Jillian bear witness to what happens else.

    You are slightly different as you do not supply in quite the same way as you supply services only. But you will still surely need to have contact details (if not your real name - I understand that of course) available, Customers will still surely need to visit you, as you-know-who last October.
     
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  8. tomf_22033
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    tomf_22033 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know anyone that likes ads. But I think we all understand that advertising generates revenue and that pays the bills.

    So if the ads aren’t annoying and the hosting is high quality and has the speed improvements that we’ve seen over the last several months (sorry I didn’t recall exactly when you fixed the slow site problems) I think they make sense.

    Also if you ever need/want to go to a top tier provider IM me and I’ll let you know who our company uses. If I’m not mistaken we pay less than $150 US a month for ours and get a full blown CentOS LAMP server.
     
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  9. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Ladies First.

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    I am really digging this thread.

    It exemplifies how people can rationally discuss something through by intelligence, honesty, open mindedness, politeness & acceptance. That is so refreshing!

    I appreciate that donations are just dormant, not gone.

    As positive as I would like to be, I tend easily toward the negative - I want to trust people [and businesses] - but find that I remain skeptical until they prove they can be trusted.

    Too many statements worth quoting - suffice to say, thank you all.
     
  10. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    Bon4 do look to make their own products. Not dissimilar to cb6000. And their site states their address and even VAT and company registration numbers publicly. And they have been around for nine years, almost as long as CM. I have no personal experience of them but have heard no complaints about them; so at first sight at least they look to me to be reputable and well worthy to have as advertisers: I should be interested to hear from others' experience with them.

    But even if the income from them does pay for the site, I still agree with @El Guapo that it would be nice to have the donations option there if only to create a contingency fund, or to finance future upgrades. It is also a morale boost for some Members who thus feel able to contribute with thanks.

    Some years ago under MW there was an option for contributing Members to get extra privileges ('Perks') and FL has something similar. I am NOT suggesting we go down that road as it creates first and second class membership; but I am also not in favour of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
     
  11. L-u-c-y
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    L-u-c-y CO-Owner of CM
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    Who would have thought someone would complain about members NOT having to donate :)
     
  12. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
     
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  13. mr_newbie
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    mr_newbie Active Member

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    I think this website is a bit of a unicorn.
    I stumbled across a thread on fetlife recently that originated around the time Jens came to take ownership of the site. There is a lot of passion towards this site and it is held in high regard. The regular members good it in high regard.

    I can understand why people would want to contribute to it. It's informative, supportive and covers a fairly niche area. It's a great resource.
     
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  14. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Ladies First.

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    I second the motion of NOT going down the road that creates first and second class membership. Good callout @Joroincharge

    In some ways I am glad the 'point' system for donating stop working. I was for an even playing field ... if it worked for some, it needed to work for all.
    But really, the only one who needs to know that I donated is me ... and maybe an Admin who wanted to take the time to run a report.

    I have no idea of the financial goal of CM - nor do I need to know. Suffice to say losing money or draining ones own personal finances are to be avoided.
    I like the idea of a Contingency Fund - gain some breathing room. But maybe those increased funds would add complications to how CM is registered.
     
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  15. danleft1
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    danleft1 Well-Known Member

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    You are quite funny ...

    I do however question your detective skills ... you concluded California and Oregon, yet a simple look at my profile shows Southeast USA (you are on the wrong coast).

    To answer you question plainly ... When you own more than one business and they are NOT compatible with each other (your clients) you make all efforts to conceal your identity from the one that is considered "taboo".

    You are correct I do NOT manufacture any of the products on Discrete-sensations.com ... but neither does Amazon / walmart / target / kohls / Home depot / Lowes / etc ... most retail establishments do not manufacture anything the sell. Also in case you have missed out on the current retail trend brick and mortar stores are slowly going away.

    Joro ... you realize that you are discouraging companies from actually running an ad on CM right? Really why would a company want to run an ad on a site that the members feel it makes sense to trash the company that is paying ... :oops:

    Now onto a real response ... usually when I'm a member of an adult forum like CM, I actively answer questions about any and all sex toys and usually ask that there is a section dedicated to them ... further usually run monthly "contests" in that section asking the members to participate in a way that fits that Adult Forum (picture forums would sumit images ... etc) then I give away prizes (from gift certificates to sex toys) to the winners that are chosen by the members at large ... I also offer 15% discount to the members of the forums I belong to ... I chose to not do that here on CM and to just be a member ... I had lengthy discussion with Jens when he was buying CM and told him that he should run ads ... I told him I would run an ad ... I offered other things to help support CM ... When Lucy became a partner I discussed it with her, I ran an ad ... the return on the ad (price of the ad per clicks received) did not make business sense and I discussed this with Lucy ... I told her that the ads should be on the sidebar and it should be locked ... she has that implemented now ... I also felt that the Bon4 ad was the more appropriate ad size ... so I will likely be discussing ad space again with Lucy since it appears that the kinks are getting worked out now.
     
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  16. sillymaid
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    sillymaid <--- that's me....

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    I'd just like to say a big thank you for all those who have the will, want and ability to keep this site going for so long...

    There are many, many of us who just sit at the side and watch the world go by and just chuck lazy comments and criticisms, and a few of us who offer thanks and congratulations....an easy pastime which the internet has bred...within my industry we describe them as "enthusiastic amateurs" who believe they know better than the educated professional, but that is the price of free speech.

    If it wasn't for the dedicated few we wouldn't have this outlet to our interest.

    Thank you.
     
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  17. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    I daresay. But it has been practically impossible to find a trading address for discrete sensations anywhere. It's registered in California. But otherwise appears online only with no physical address. I would never deal with any goods supplier on that basis. Nowhere to go if they default. If the outfit is genuine there should be more transparency.

    Bon4 on the other hand ticks all the boxes, and i have since had more positive feedback elsewhere, including a PM thread on FL from someone who's been wearing continuously since Feb 14 and set to continue to same date next year, and no problems at all.
     
  18. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    Tried to edit but timed out.

    More:

    Had discrete sensations shown on their site a registered office, a trading address, and (ideally also) a telephone number I should have had fewer if any qualms. I am also very well aware that another person (who regularly posts on FL and with whom I am in contact there) made enormous efforts to try and obtain them by email, without success.

    And I fully agree and always have that advertising in principle subject to due diligence is a positive way forward. It would have much eased the financial burden it placed on Jens. As for revenue I think this depends on what the advertiser is paying and th cost to CM of running the site. I don't have all the figures but given the outlay Jens incurred I don't quite yet see how he can have been reimbursed a lot of it. Part will of course have been capital which he will have paid to MW and maybe also for other upgrades, and part will will have recouped from Lucy buying a share into the partnership.

    But howbeit, the important thing is to move forward now. If the income from (now) Bon4 meets the running costs of server etc., then all to the good and long overdue. I am somewhat (pleasantly) surprised to read that it apparently does: I don't suppose we can have the figures?

    And I certainly do not want to discourage future legitimate advertisers, with same caveat as I set out before. My heart and soul is in CM. I have been a Member for 9+ years, a lot longer than Lucy and indeed Jens. ( I know Jens shows as joined 2008 before MW but that is only because he is 'super-administrator' from the site creator and has membership number of 1.) I have made more posts than any Member here other than jemima and MW herself. This includes all current Admin and Mods and all prior Mods except MW. I have myself served some three years as a Mod (Jens asked me soon after taking over and after much discussion I agreed) until my (and Barbara's who had also given similar long conscientious service) last tenure was abruptly terminated as I stated in another thread.
     
  19. lockit
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    lockit Advanced Member

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    I feel as if I have walked into an episode of the secret boss.
     
  20. sylvana chastity
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    sylvana chastity just Syl

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    got a feeling this discussion ran out of topic a bit, but anyway just want to say the same that I say when ordering a Steak to all of you taking care of this little place in the www: "well done"! ;)
     
  21. Joroincharge
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    Joroincharge Lock em up - 24/7/365!!

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    And BTW looking at the site again I see the Bon4 ad is gone and not replaced.
     
  22. danleft1
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    danleft1 Well-Known Member

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    So Joro ... just to be clear about your detective work that is wrong ...

    Discrete-sensations.com ... https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=discrete-sensations.com ... shows an Arizona state Proxy for a USA Company

    Bon4.com ... https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=bon4.com ... shows a Washington state proxy for a Netherlands Company

    So neither website offers direct contact info based on their domain registration :eek:

    And both websites offer contact info on the actual websites ... and Discrete-sensations.com actually has a phone number to call if you look for it yet Bon4.com does not :eek:

    Further more Discrete-sensations.com has actually been in business longer then Bon4.com by 2 years :eek:

    And Bon4 DOES NOT HAVE A CUSTOMER STORE associated with the address on their website ... https://www.google.com/maps/place/V...4f7b624a6b301270!8m2!3d51.3975672!4d5.4391311

    And are you ready for the best part of this whole silly thing that you think you are somehow making sense of ... If I wanted to sell Bon4 on my site I could be a retailer of them :eek:

    Now if your "friend" on FL (I'm not active on any of those boards) is not getting the response they need from the Website ... then I would be happy to hear from them and resolve any issue they have.

    You probably scared them off thinking they were next on your hit list ... :oops:
     
  23. L-u-c-y
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    L-u-c-y CO-Owner of CM
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    #48 L-u-c-y, Jul 8, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2018
    This thread has been locked.

    The decision was taken by the site owners to have discrete advertising to pay for the site running costs. If you do not wish to purchase anything from these advertisers, that is your prerogative. Please do not think that this is a place to debate the financial workings of this site or any other site for that matter.

    If you have a question regarding anyone advertising on this site, please direct the question to the advertiser directly or the owners of this site. Unfounded speculation about the running of any site or business is not acceptable.

    Any posts inadvertently added after this have been removed.
     
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