Did the Victorians have it right?

To think, today’s version is a Kali’s Teeth Device. So much improvement since the original idea of masturbation control!
I’ve never tried a Kali’s Device and really not looking to any time soon.

 

What, exactly, did you not accomplish that you otherwise would have but for your alleged excessive masturbation?

 

Especially across time and across societies as a whole. How ludicrous.

 

Well, I’m self employed, so to answer you honestly I’ve lost work. I was delayed by my habits on many proposals and due to the delays lost income.
Not alleged...real life truth, at least for me.
Not proud to tell my story of failing, but damn proud of who I am “becoming”...I still have work ahead of me.

 

Thanks for the article, @L-u-c-y. Interesting that it closes with the quote from John Humphrey Noyes, who was a key American utopian, who advocated "complex marriage" in a commune in which all women and men were married to each other, but men were trained not to orgasm during sex, one of the early forerunners of karezza.

While the Victorian books described in the article are way over the top in their descriptions of the effects of onanism, it is clear that masturbation is selfish and distracts from a man's attention, love and submission to his wife. Thank god(dess) for chastity cages.

 

A very interesting article @L-u-c-y.

What stands out to me is that the downsides are to the afflicted indiviudal’s health, not to broader society’s detriment.

In fact it seems the Victorians acknowledged that high academic achievement is possible whilst at the same time not being enough to compensate for the evils of excessive masturbation.

Basically I think this must have been referring to me in a past life.

More seriously in a static society of deference to authority there was no question of a challenge to the status quo on moral or political grounds, so the only dimension left to evaluate the pros and cons of any male sexual deviance was that of effect on the personal health of the “victim”. All such “victims” weakened by their affliction would be “letting the side down” but only indirectly by not preserving and strengthening their manliness.

You raise the question of whether masturbators like me could achieve more for society if we were in chastity. I’d be interested to learn from those males who are locked whether their engagement with
/ contribution to broader society has been enhanced by chastity?

 

lol… I hope we are being jovial here.

Firstly, the people who made these declarations in the Victoria times were highly influenced by their religious beliefs. They were ‘scientists’ and 'philosophers’ in title only. If they said something that conflicted with the moral beliefs of the church, they would be stripped and banished from proper society.

Throughout history, by law and by god, men have had a legal right to have sex with their wives. (In fact, I think it is still a part of American marriage law that if a woman doesn’t put out, that’s grounds for the man to divorce her.) The reason these men demonised masturbation is because it was believed a woman’s duty/purpose was to be a baby-maker, and so spilling seed on the ground was a wasted opportunity. (Lot, anyone? lol). You can easily see how male masturbation could bring relief, even mercy, to a woman, especially if she already had 15 children.

And it’s funny how masturbation was more a moral crime than adultery. In fact, adultery was often seen as necessary in European High Society at the time. Having a Mistress on the side to satisfy a man’s needs was even respectable in some circles. I'm sure many wives these days would prefer their husbands to masturbate over having a Mistress on the side.

Secondly, if it was a husband’s right to have sex with his wife whenever he wanted, why would he prefer to masturbate instead? That’s saying a lot about the relationship between husbands and wives.

And lastly… It’s also funny that the reason for the development of the female vibrator was to cure her of the same type of ailments that men were supposed to get from masturbation…lol.

*

 

As a general note to the males commenting on this thread. I think you need understand POV here. It seems Lucy's domination style is largely influenced by Female Supremacy. This is a bonafide style of domination. It may not be for everyone, but it does make a lot of submissives who are into Female Supremacy very happy.

Sometimes it is hard on forums to decipher if a Domme is speaking as her regular self or in Domme-mode. Often for women they can be very different mind-frames which have very different value systems. Please be aware of that.

xx

 

Having been circumcised, later in life, low and tight, I am sure that it, at the least, makes masturbation more difficult. Very interesting at school that the circumcised boys in my experience did not indulge in mutual masturbation activities. Kellogg recommended circumcision as a cure for masturbation.
A further benefit of a circumcision is that it makes the wearing of a chastity device much easier, there is no foreskin to get in the way.

 

The only person that can help a person overcome an addiction, is the person them self.

 

That’s true but it still comes down to personal accountability.

 

Yes @L-u-c-y excessive masturbation is harmful to a relationship and can be harmful to the individual. The many men who ask you to lock them up are searching for help, help for a habit that’s not easy to fix but they need someone to help them to become better more productive individuals. If that can be accomplished by an online Keyholder or not is a difficult question to answer everyone’s situation is different.
Please except my apologies for my previous statements on this thread it was not called for. No matter how long we’re locked and serve our Mistress’s we still make mistakes. Non of us are perfect.

 

yeah: that was a deliberate mis-reading of biblical text back then, and remains so now. Onan's death was retribution for being "evil in the sight of the Lord" through being unwilling to father a child by his widowed sister-in-law - as was Jewish custom at the time. Onan was punished not for masturbation, but for coitus interruptus thereby not extending his brother's family line - which would have been the real sin in this example.

 

google hysteria. 19th century doctors masturbated their female patients to alleviate this 'dread malady'.

 

There is more than a grain of truth in this article. The very weakness of will that propels some men to excessive masturbation also makes the addiction very difficult to break. In these cases an outside agent (a chastity device supervised by a KH, for example), can be effective in aiding a cure. So, yes, the Victorians weren't entirely wrong about masturbation. They just overdid it a bit. Overdid their reasoning, that is.

 

I’m going to give masturbation a shout out at this point! As I mentioned in an earlier post to this thread, I do indulge regularly...though I’m not addicted. I’ve never been locked though the fantasy excites me but I worry that I’d become compelled either voluntarily or due to the wishes of the KH to stay locked longer than is good for me-the exact converse of the “addicted to mastrubation” argument!

I have a question for locked males : namely leaving aside the pleasurable aspects of being locked for both yourself and your KH (I know I know, pleasure is important... but that’s hardly an argument against masturbation, and as I say above, perhaps being locked can become a compulsion) has being locked redirected your energies in broader life so that you are achieving more? If yes that would be empirical evidence in favour of the Victorian “wasting seed wastes the man’s capacities” type perspective (bracketing for now the question of why seed is wasted in masturbation but not in coitus).

 

there is an open secret here, gentlemen. restricted ejaculation does not inherently mean restricted orgasm. ...I've said too much already, and the chastity illuminati are everywhere...

 

Wowser-thanks for the secret tip off-it was good to know you before..you know...you become a myth and a warning.

 

and not necessarily in that order! it just bears saying is all. I leave it to you, Achedlock, to carry the message forward if for any reason no-one ever sees me again...

 

I agree with You, Madame. Similar to Victorian's devices are in use nowadays, and chastity is here to solve this men's problem.

 

I don't know if the Victorians had it right or not, but I know I don't like it when husband masturbates and never have. Keeping it down to a low level has evolved into a reason for chastity and discipline.

 

https://stickythemovie.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/punishments-for-masturbation-throughout-history/

Interesting link about punishments for masturbation, with emphasis on very painful Victorian remedies. Don't complain about being locked in a chastity device till you have read this article!

 

Thanks for the link. It’s like a Cloudy Atlas of the sins of emission through the ages...as this is CM, who is on the right side in this epic pro/anti masturbation struggle, and who will take the torch handed over by @simpleman23 in the next era?