"Cupid's Poisoned Arrow"

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by sixofthebest, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. sixofthebest
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    sixofthebest Active member

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    Marnia Robinson wrote a book ten years ago titled "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" in which she discusses (among other things) the biological basis for why men behave as we do when we are chaste. In a nutshell, she identifies three neurotransmitters - dopamine, prolactin, and oxytocin - that rule male behavior during the time around orgasm. Dopamine provides the the happy ride and the feeling of ecstasy at the point of orgasm, prolactin is released into the system by the orgasm itself and regulates (overrules) the dopamine, bringing the post-orgasm crash we tend to experience, and oxytocin causes us to want to cuddle or "pair bond." She writes that by avoiding orgasm, the level of dopamine in our systems stays at a level that makes us feel good about doing things for our partner and treating her with dignity, respect, and love. She also writes that the prolactin can cause up to a two week period during which we no longer care so much about our partner; AND, we are driven by biological imperative to be interested in other women as potential partners. Again - this is a nutshell and woefully incomplete.

    Who here has read this book? What are your thoughts? She suggests Karezza - sex without orgasm (again, a nutshell description) - as a way to counteract this damaging lull in devotion. What about it?

    Enforced Chastity is clearly a way to keep from the lull, to keep dopamine levels high, and desired behavior ever present. Robinson's book helps provide a scientific explanation for why we behave as we do when locked.

    Thoughts?

    Jamie
     
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  2. shannonsanders
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    She's anti-kink, and claims that kink increases dopamine. Basically, anything she doesn't like messes up dopamine. The book itself is pseudo-science and overly suggests a one size fits all approach to sex. Do what works for you.
     
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  3. filltee
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    filltee Junior Member

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    If understanding why male chastity works and learning about the science behind it is not something that will detract from the experience you and your partner currently 'enjoy' then I suggest reading the following.

    https://www.reuniting.info/node/4865

    Reading this for some. and no judgement inferred.. may either enhance or detract from your overall experience of TTTWD
     
  4. Mrs. A
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    I wonder if there are ways to trick the male brain into producing more dopamine quickly after release. I mean 7 to 10days is a long time. We know that teasing naturally increases desire, desire that is denied to be fulfilled causes a chaste man to become submissive. So what if a male orgasm is followed by him being forced to eat or otherwise swallow the ejaculate immediately? Then followed by acts of worship and humiliation. Kissing her feet or ass for instance, being made to suck her strap on. Or even a punishment like spankings, ball busting or made to wear a gag. Will this trick the brain and make the man fall back into his devoted mindset faster. We are going to test this theory. Unless other posters have experience with this and enlighten us.
     
  5. shannonsanders
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    It’s one thing to understand how certain hormones impact desire and chemistry, but it’s another thing to get hyper focused o those things to the exclusion of many other things, including personal preference, inter personal chemistry, mental health, physical health, behavioral health, personal moral beliefs, relatiosnship goals, having a functional life outside the bedroom, sexual orientation, gender identity, like or dislike of certain acts, past trauma or a lack of past trauma,and a shit ton more things that go into being sexual human being. I can’t say some of the advice is “bad” particularly for people how have been in a very long term relationship or or stuck in the mud, but I would be careful about anyone who thinks they have a silver bullet after millions of years of human sexual evolution.

    She’s also hostile to any kind of conventional sexual therapy (which I can tell you, good therapists help, a LOT). Anything like that threatens her belief system.
     
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  6. sixofthebest
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    sixofthebest Active member

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    If it is a concern that she doesn't like kink or more conventional forms of therapy, it may help to separate the message from the messenger. She has pointed out what appears to be fact - the generation of different neurotransmitters that occurs before, during, and after an orgasm. I found the paper described by @filltee (thanks, filltee!) prior to finding Robinson's book. It was fascinating to learn about this biological activity - particularly as it relates to the post-orgasm drop and the possible connection to depression through a downward mood cycle caused by masturbation in pursuit of an ever decreasing dopamine payoff and an ever present prolactin "penalty." (Sorry - run-on sentence.)

    A question that jumped immediately to mind was "Can clinical depression in some men be attributed to the generation of prolactin as a result of a great deal of masturbation?" And then, "If so, is this something that is commonly addressed in depression therapy?"

    And then a question to the members of this community: "Has anyone here been in therapy for clinical depression and had chronic masturbation mentioned as a possible contributor to that depression?"

    Naturally Curious,

    Jamie
     
  7. sixofthebest
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    sixofthebest Active member

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  8. shannonsanders
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    The problem I have is she takes a basic understanding of hormones, and then advocates a whole set of specific sexual practices, with a moralistic. It’s a big leap, and there is only basic understanding of the hormones.

    Almost any guy on this forum knows that he experiences a high when he doesn’t cum for a few days and a drop after he does. Most people here enjoy the high.

    Not everyone experiences “denial” or “control” in the same way. I experience an enjoyable high (assuming other things in my life and relationship are going well), many other guys view it as an irritation or end up feeling miserable and impulsive.

    Also, like supposed “porn addiction” (another thing she preaches against), “chronic masturbation” is in eye of beholder. There are a lot of people who enjoy frequent masturbation and know what works for them. If you are in a long term relationship, there are going to be times when MB is the best release. For other people, it can be energy wasted.

    All that being said, I can be very happy with denial, it can help with depression and anxiety, under right circumstances. But that’s me.
     
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  9. shannonsanders
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    Yes, how you end an orgasm, and what you do over the 7-10 days matters a lot. There are mental, psychological, behavioral, and physical components besides just the hormones. A ruined orgasm can leave you wanting more. Mutual attraction and attention matter a greatly. Psychologically wanting to please my partner matters.
     
  10. Ma’ams Slut
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    Ma’ams Slut OWNED, LOCKED, SUB TO MY LOVE @Ma’am M

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    Looking forward to the test results I am sure @remyruff is also
     
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  11. Miss Veronica
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    Chemical VS intellectual.. .

    I find there are two opposing avenues to chastity:

    - the basic is keeping a man horny to maintain his attention/submission, which is using his natural chemicals to control him. This type of control generally has no progression - always back to square one - the sub doesn't learn when only chemicals and instinct are involved.

    - keeping a man chaste to relieve him of his sexual drive to focus on other valuable aspects of life - to practice awareness and mindfulness - which is using his will and intellect to control. This enables progression and self mastery.

    Of course, Dommes often use degrees of both, but I think the former is most common (because it's easier and requires little investment).

    ATM I use chastity purely to increase sexual experience - just play - as I'm not in the position to go in deep. But what I like about the latter way of control is that it isn't particularly to create a woman-centric mentality, even though that's where a lot of KHs take their subs. I find it is about enabling my man to have the freedom of becoming the best version of himself, yes, with our relationship but also in all the other facets of his life. Though, I'd only do this with someone truly special, someone I'd want to invest in because it transcends the physical into the spiritual - powerful stuff. For now, I'm satisfied with the carnal side of chastity, but my puppy... I know he wants more. He is that type of man to thrive being relieved of the 'burden' of his sex drive.

    But, my point: the latter avenue to chastity isn't driven or done by chemicals, but the intellect and will...

    I think it strange that we think sex drive is only driven by hormones. Humans have always worked against their natural instincts proving them to be of higher intelligence. For instance, humans have the capacity of denying themselves pleasures for a greater purpose. I truly don't think we should keep saying we are subject to our hormones - our intelligence is based on mind over matter.

    The thing that draws me to my puppy is that he is stimulated through the intellect, not his groin. We are sexual not because we are horny, and I love the fact we don't have to be horny to have amazing sexual experiences. There have been a few times where the experiences we've had have been so emotionally intense, so enlightening, that I've gone in to a surreal place for a while - a Domme space, if you will - spiritual, not sexual. My intellect and emotional intelligence was stimulated, and that's what created our intimacy. And the best thing... In such instances I don't experience that chemical low but a lingering connection to my partner, something that can be built upon. And that it the beauty of using intellect as the driver for sexual encounters rather than physical arousal or bodily chemicals.

    X
     
  12. shannonsanders
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    Agree with Miss V!
     
  13. Miffy
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    I agree with shannonsanders!
     
  14. Jail Bird
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    Jail Bird Active member

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    I can only speak for myself here but having to consume my ejaculate right after my granted release snaps my butt back into the submissive husband I am. Before, it took about 3-4 days to feel submissive again.
    The other little trick my wife uses on me is to be required to go back into my belt immediately upon finishing. Sometimes she's holding my cuff ring and cage in her hand as the last couple of drips come out of me, she's handing me the belt to put it back on now. Then clean up my mess and oh by the way, it's better warm than cold so you might want to hurry getting into your belt!.
    I can say for me, the very last thing I want to do after a release is go back into my belt! Then to get on my knees and lick up my "mess" as she puts it. I have very little down time getting back to my submission after that.
    That's our story. :)
     
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  15. hardbodysub
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    hardbodysub BrokeTheMold

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    We're looking forward to the results!
     
  16. elliot_r
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    elliot_r Junior Member

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    This is an interesting read. How about some of each. Chemistry and the mindset some take after the orgasm. I am sure there is chemical hormonal affects. But is it all of the answer. I also think that there is something to be said for the aftercare of the two involved and how that is done and what is done.

    I know Mistress does not like the place I go for a few days after having an orgasm. To be honest, I myself don't like that place I go. I don't like the head space I get into. But I would much rather be in the place that we were at prior to the orgasm. Nothing held back, full talking and disclosure, open discussions and care and closeness. But, those days after, those days are lost days for me and for her. Neither of us like it.

    So I think there is the mind, the physical and the chemical/hormonal aspects all need to be looked at on this topic.
     
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