Chastity cages and Christianity

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Guest 3944, May 13, 2021.

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  1. Mrloched
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    Mrloched Long term member

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    If slavery was so peachy why was it illegal to own Israelites as property? The bible does condone slavery, just not slavery of Israelites. Was slavery widely condemned throughout Christendom?

    @Lazlo Toth are you telling me Christendom has not had an issue with homosexuality? I've never seen an atheist conversion program. Slowly but surely Christendom is having to accept that homosexuals are people to but it's like pulling teeth.
     
  2. Lazlo Toth
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    I am telling you that Christ forbids ill treatment of homosexuals.

    And Mr. Big Pants, where is your condemnation of Islam? Islamists play soccer with the severed heads of homosexuals. Trust me, you need to fear an Islamist far more than a Christian if you are gay.
     
  3. Mrloched
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    Mrloched Long term member

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    Mr big pants ???? If you can't handle a bit of debate please just say. For an atheist or agnostic Christianity is just another religion in the mix. My disbelief is no diffrent than your disbelief of Hinduism, Judaism or Islam. Should I think less of you because you are an unbeliever ?
    No need for insults.

    Regarding Islam the op's question was about Christianity and the discussion has become about the morality in the bible. Islam would be another discussion please don't try to deflect with whataboutisms.

    So your position is the bible has no issue with homosexuality and in turn neither do Christians as they have read the bible.
    Pull the other one mate.
    Do I really need to post links to scripture and videos of pastors giving homophobic rants ?

    My point from the beginning is that the bible is a bronze age book with bronze age values, whilst it contains much that is good it is a product of its time. Parts if it are no longer acceptable. We already ignore the parts about shellfish, pork, male cloths, mixed fibres etc It seems as though people hold onto the parts that suport their own prejudices.
     
  4. Guest 6019
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    Eloquently put, but if we are to talk about science being wrong. Can you be more specific? Science makes the best conclusion based on the evidence of the time, and loves being proved wrong. However, evolution has held true for 160 years. The universe is about 13.7billion years old. There maybe more accuracy in the future, but these are fundamental truths. Like the earth going around the sun,.we used to think the sun went around the earth, now we know better. I am not trying to disprove God, but I do dispute the account of Genesis. I would also not dispute that the character (I mean no disrespect) Jesus had some good things to say, and was ahead of his time. So you pick the good stuff and try to learn from the bad. I'm doing the same thing without a god.
     
  5. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Chicken. I knew you couldn't do it.
     
  6. Guest 6019
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    Why do we need to condemn Islam? Just the extremists that choose ro interpret the bad bits of the Koran over the good bits, whose actions we must all agree are unforgivable. We don't want to tar everyone with the same brush, the majority of Muslims want peace. It shows prejudice and intolerance to express things in such a way. That is immoral. Two wrongs don't make a right. Though if after committing atrocities they truly repent of their sins and ask Jesus into their hearts, then that's OK? They get to go to heaven, with all the Christian murderers, rapists and unmentionables who repented too. Not on my watch! Damn them all I say.
     
  7. Design is me
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    Bingo!
     
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  8. Design is me
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    Please try and be consistant with your hatred of religion please. You speak of not wanting to tar people with the same brush, but aren`t you doing that with Christianity? You and others on the left seem to give Islam a pass for some reason. They are still stoning people today for being homosexuals.
    Christianity has never condoned homosexuality, but it has not taught to kill them. Religion can and has been be twisted by man to create something that is evil. Your hatred of religion is misplaced. You should just hate mankind.
     
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  9. Design is me
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    Genesis can be easily fit into evolution. How long is a day to God? The bible was written for people of the time to understand. A day is just a simple symbol of the passage of time.
    You speak of science proving that God does not exist, but I beg to differ. Science can actually prove that we are designed and not a mere accident. Try this experiment. Go take a set of pool balls and rack them up somewhere. Come back in a couple of years and let me know if they are still in a perfect triangle.
    Things in nature do not organize into complex structures. The second law of thermodynamics proves that things in nature age and move to disorder. Yet I am to believe `science` can prove that life just sort of started on it's on at some indistinguishable time a long time ago? And I am considered to be a nut for believing some being started it for a reason? Really?
     
  10. Design is me
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    You are trying to take the bible literally. Only a fool would take a bronze age book and follow it word for word. There are plenty of fools in the world and mankind has twisted religion in many ways to serve its I'll ways. I try not to judge. You should try that.
     
  11. Design is me
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    I never said slavery was peachy. Please make an adult argument here. Slavery has always been a common practice throughout history. The quotes in the bible signify this. Inherent freedom is relatively new in our history. The US constitution was the first document to use this. Without it, you would probably be a serf right now.
    As for homosexuality, you are right. Christianity has not been very good on that subject, but it has never condoned Ill treatment of them. If I am to except your beliefs on the matter, shouldn't you except my beliefs. If you don't like a religion, don't join it. In the Us it's called freedom of religion. I believe there is an amendment on the subject.
     
  12. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Just delusional and likely suffering from a mild form of schizophrenia.

    I am curious about a few things...

    Which god is the right one?

    Is it only your religion that is right?

    Do peolpe from all religions get a chance at going to heaven after death?

    If a new religion is formed today is it a "real" one in your view?
     
  13. Guest 6019
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    #88 Guest 6019, May 27, 2021
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
    I do not hate religion or the religious at all. I just disagree. I do not tar everyone with the same brush either, I pointed out there are good and bad people in and out of all religions. I have many religious friends I disagree with on one topic, but there is so much more that we do agree on. So your point is?
     
  14. Guest 6019
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    Really? I doubt you will concede the point, but below are a couple of links explaining your misunderstanding of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And, to be very clear... I never suggested you were a nut, that was someone else. So again, what is your point?

    How long is a day to God? Why would I even consider that a reasonable question to ask?

    How does evolution fit into Genesis?

    http://physics.gmu.edu/~roerter/EvolutionEntropy.htm

    https://evolution-outreach.biomedce... claims that,over time become more disordered.

    Again, I will point out, I respect your opinion and I would fight to preserve your right to believe whatever you like. I harbour no hatred of any religious people.
     
  15. Mrloched
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    @Jah Rubbings iirc Genesis isn't even Christian/Jewish story it was copied wholesale from the Mesopotamian theology.
     
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  16. isekor
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    Haha, dear friend, please read here - Catholic doctrine for that:

    Also a husband should submit to his wife...

    Pope St. John Paul II - Mulieris Dignitatem:

    (…) “Of fundamental importance here are the words of the Letter to the Ephesians: “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the Church to himself in splendour, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so husbands should love their wives…” (5:25-32 ) (…)

    Corresponding to the truth of this institution is the exhortation: “Husbands, love your wives”, love them because of that special and unique bond whereby in marriage a man and a woman become “one flesh” (Gen 2:24; Eph 5:31). In this love there is a fundamental affirmation of the woman as a person. This affirmation makes it possible for the female personality to develop fully and be enriched. This is precisely the way Christ acts as the bridegroom of the Church; he desires that she be “in splendour, without spot or wrinkle” (Eph 5:27). One can say that this fully captures the whole “style” of Christ in dealing with women. Husbands should make their own the elements of this style in regard to their wives; analogously, all men should do the same in regard to women in every situation. In this way both men and women bring about “the sincere gift of self”.

    The author of the Letter to the Ephesians sees no contradiction between an exhortation formulated in this way and the words: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife” (5:22-23). The author knows that this way of speaking, so profoundly rooted in the customs and religious tradition of the time, is to be understood and carried out in a new way: as a “mutual subjection out of reverence for Christ” (cf. Eph 5:21). This is especially true because the husband is called the “head” of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church; he is so in order to give “himself up for her” (Eph 5:25), and giving himself up for her means giving up even his own life. However, whereas in the relationship between Christ and the Church the subjection is only on the part of the Church, in the relationship between husband and wife the “subjection” is not one-sided but mutual.

    In relation to the “old” this is evidently something “new”: it is an innovation of the Gospel. We find various passages in which the apostolic writings express this innovation, even though they also communicate what is “old”: what is rooted in the religious tradition of Israel, in its way of understanding and explaining the sacred texts, as for example the second chapter of the Book of Genesis.49

    The apostolic letters are addressed to people living in an environment marked by that same traditional way of thinking and acting. The “innovation” of Christ is a fact: it constitutes the unambiguous content of the evangelical message and is the result of the Redemption. However, the awareness that in marriage there is mutual “subjection of the spouses out of reverence for Christ”, and not just that of the wife to the husband, must gradually establish itself in hearts, consciences, behaviour and customs. This is a call which from that time onwards, does not cease to challenge succeeding generations; it is a call which people have to accept ever anew. Saint Paul not only wrote: “In Christ Jesus… there is no more man or woman”, but also wrote: “There is no more slave or freeman”. Yet how many generations were needed for such a principle to be realized in the history of humanity through the abolition of slavery! And what is one to say of the many forms of slavery to which individuals and peoples are subjected, which have not yet disappeared from history?

    But the challenge presented by the “ethos” of the Redemption is clear and definitive. All the reasons in favour of the “subjection” of woman to man in marriage must be understood in the sense of a “mutual subjection” of both “out of reverence for Christ.””(…)

    - Pope John Paul II

     
  17. isekor
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    Please also read here - Catholic theology:

    The book from Catholic theologian Christopher West:

    (…) “16. Every time I hear that Scripture verse that says, “Wives, be subject to your husbands,” the hair stands up on the back of my neck. Why should I listen to what the Bible says about marriage when it’s so demeaning toward women?


    The verse you’re referring to is Ephesians 5:22. If it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up, I want to affirm your response. Why? Because you probably think the passage means something like: “Wives are doormats who must surrender to their husbands’ domination.” If that’s what you think it means, then I’d be concerned if it didn’t make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

    Nevertheless, that’s not what the verse means. When we look at this verse in the context of the whole passage (Eph 5:21-33), the context flips the typical interpretation on its head. Unfortunately, as soon as people hear this one verse, they tune out the rest of what St. Paul says.

    While we must admit that some men throughout history have pointed to this Scripture verse to justify their fallen desire to dominate women, St. Paul is in no way justifying such an attitude. He knows it to be a result of sin (see Gn 3:16), which is why in this passage he’s actually restoring God’s original plan before sin. He does so by pointing out what marriage was all about in the first place. It was meant to foreshadow the marriage of Christ and the Church. St. Paul simply draws out the implications of this analogy.

    He starts by calling both husbands and wives to be subject to one another ”out of reverence for Christ” (v. 21 ) - out of reverence for the ”great mystery” that spouses participate in by imaging Christ’s union with the Church. In the analogy, the husband represents Christ, and the wife represents the Church. So, he says, as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives also be subject to their husbands (see v. 24).

    Another translation uses the word ”submission.” I like to explain this word as follows. ”Sub” means “under,” and ”mission” means ”to be sent forth with the authority to perform a specific service.” Wives, then, are called to put themselves ”under” the ”mission” of their husbands.

    What’s the mission of the husband? ”Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her” (v. 25). How did Christ love the Church? He died for her. Christ said he came ”not to be served but to serve,” and to lay down his life for his Bride (Mt 20:28).

    What, then, does it mean for a wife to ”submit” to her husband? It means let your husband serve you. Put yourself under his mission…” (…)

    ----------------------
    - Christopher West - Good News About Sex & Marriage. (Christopher West holds a Master’s Degree in Theology from the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage & Family.)

    Nihil obstat: Reverend Gerard Beigel, S.T.D., Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: Most Reverend Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
    Archbishop of Denver, July 28, 2000

    The nihil obstat and imprimatur are official declarations that a book is free from Catholic doctrinal or moral error.
     
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  18. isekor
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  19. isekor
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    I think no problem, If it is a mutual agreement. You can also all read here:

    https://ladyandknight.tumblr.com
     
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  20. isekor
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    But back to the topic.

    This theme is for Christians.

    Why some atheists must here to write? Probably any personal problem.
    But also the question - why some Protestants must here attack to Catholics? Also own - personal problem...

    This topic is not Protestants vs Catholics, also no Atheists vs Christians.

    This topic is - Chastity cages and Christianity.

    You can tell here why is Chastity, for you as Christians, right. And your thoughts for it.


    I think for some Christians Chastity cage or honor system, is our way to express our marital fidelity and also faith in God. I'm a Catholic. Not exist any sexual practice prohibited in Catholic marriage. But Catholic husband (also wife) should not masturbate. And for it is right if the husband looking a way for - "no masturbates".
     
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  21. Guest 6019
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    Why shouldn't an Atheist have an opinion, this is a public forum after all. As for any personal problem? No more or less than anyone else I would guess. But do you have to resort to insult? Not very Christian of you I think.
     
  22. Kylara
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  23. isekor
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    #98 isekor, May 27, 2021
    Last edited: May 27, 2021

    Dear friend, you have a problem, and it is not insult. This topic is - Chastity cages and Christianity. But you here only presenting your atheistic worldview (it is off topic). Sorry.
     
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  24. isekor
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    Yes, also here is mutual subordination in mariage.
    And also we need to know - The Catholic Church and theology does not give texts for ideal marriage as a commandment, but as a recommendation. That is why exist also patrirchal marriages, matriarchal marriages, or mutual subordination marriages...
     
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  25. Lazlo Toth
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    Jah,

    You are limiting your physics to the pre-Einstein age. Time does indeed "bend" or distort based on the speed your going. If you can travel really, really fast....time slows down.

    Don't you think that a God who can create the heavens and the earth can travel really, really quickly?

    Keep in mind, if you could travel the speed of light, time stands still. Thus, a day COULD quite possibly be a million.....a billlion....years to someone else in a different reference frame.

    And if you can bend light and time, hiding things like planets, angels, demons, "energy", etc. is probably pretty easy.

    You make the mistake most of us make. (I make it too) You try to reconcile things strictly through your own limited understanding.

    Einstein PROVED that depending on reference frame, you really could build the earth in six days.

    It's time to graduate beyond Newtonian physics. Pretty much every college physics undergrad has by now.

    Laz
     
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