An attempt to reject the post masculine era?.

the truth is the USA i a constitutional republic.
the democratic party has been invaded by socialist since the 60s.
hillery is a socialist.the perty showed its true colors by running an admitted socialist,berny sanders.
the socialist want to destroy our constitution starting with the 2nd amendment because without it they don't have a chance.
https://www.alipac.us/f19/clintons-...dmits-total-gun-confiscation-sole-aim-274557/

 

Hard to take such badly spelled poorly written ideas seriously.
Just saying.

 

well,cocksucker,its hard to take a brit seriously when it comes to politics either.

 

Paul Krugman coined the term "performance cruelty" this week.

>> On the other side, the party’s base really does love Trump, not for his policies, but for the performative cruelty he exhibits toward racial minorities and the way he sticks his thumb in the eyes of “elites.” <<

-----------------

To get back to the question presented I can say the following with high certainty. I spoke to any and all about the election and as a strong general rule, WHITE MEN hated or had a strong need to put down Hillary Clinton. I was in an extreme minority of White Men who pulled the lever for Clinton being 100% certain she was the most qualified candidate for the office.

If you had 100 white men in a room:

25 Regarded Clinton as a "crook."

25 Irrationally hated her

10 Could not vote for her at all, so cast a vote for 3rd party candidates

30 voted for her but spoke of her as "flawed" and not someone they really wanted.

10 Only 10% of white men - voted for HRC b/c they truly thought she'd be a very good president.

^^^^^ These numbers are heavily influenced by male irrationalities and prejudices. So, the OP is correct in her suspicions.

 

I'm hoping we can also produce alternative role models for young women.

 

concur

 

if Ms Amanda says he's vulgar he's vulgar - period.

 

My IQ dropped several points just by reading this.

So, in your world, men can't be "men" unless they can force themselves on women, for example, right? If that's not right, explain what you meant by that.

So you think him forcing himself on women, having affairs with porn stars while he's married to his wives (how many is he up to now?), expressing incestuous lust for his own daughter, etc. shows "respect" for women? Yes?

 

only liberals see skin color as all important. I have no issue with anyones skin color whatsoever. I judge people by the content of their character and what they stand for. So yes the fact that obama was a marxist is why many of us feared him. Marxism is the most failed ideology in the world and has destroyed countless economies and put millions in servitude to tyrannical dictators across the globe.

 

Nobody voted for hillary because she was involved in some pretty shady deals not only as secretary of state but also with her and her husbands foundation. In time I think the proof will come out. But regardless it had nothing to do with her being a woman. I would vote for nikki haley if she ever runs for potus in a second. Can the rest of you say the same? Or do you have a problem with a successful republican woman? Would any of you vote for tim scott if he ran for the presidency?I would vote for him also. Nope most white males are not racist or misogynist. Thats simply a stereotype perpetuated by the media.

 

Donald Trump being elected president is a result of a failure to educate people in to being empathetic and considering the good of a society rather than short term individual interests and an imperfect political system. Hopefully two things that will improve as a result of what is going on. His toxic masculinity is just a conduit of sorts.

 

I’ll respectfully disagree.

He was elected because of several factors. And I’m listing them as a student of history and as someone trained to understand social actions.

First was a backlash against Obama and the push to the left. Most Americans are not on the extremes and tend to go back and forth to keep the government centered. It’s why the often give Congress to one party and the Executive branch to another.

Next after eight years of Obama many were frustrated with the talk that the economy couldn’t improve beyond 1% GDP. Obama repeated that over and over. Clinton was seen as a third Obama term by some. And she didn’t do anything to make that view incorrect.

Clinton was a horrible candidate. She’s not likeable, she’s not trustworthy and many felt she felt entitled to being president. She also came across as bitter and angry. Add decades of scandles and many wouldn’t vote for her if she was running against Hitler, Stalin or the Devil.

A push back against globalism. Brexit and Trumps election were a way for people to say they nation state isn’t dead, Americans in general our proud of our country. We typically don’t trust the UN, the EU and other NGOs.

Many feel illegal immigration, attacks on police, ANTIFA and other leftist causes were a danger to the USA. Clinton was seen as supporting these and other “progressive” views and causes.

Free speech and political correctness were seen as being out of control. Many felt the contrast being told “you can’t say that” as unAmerican. We value the first Amendment and while some things are rude, crude and just outright wrong, saying someone can’t say them isn’t American. I’ll fight to protect someone’s right to be offensive even if I don’t agree with them and find what they’re saying as vile. Likewise, we don’t need laws and the PC police, sometimes a simple shut the F up you racist, sexist pig is more effective.

Freedom of religion was also a big issue. For the first time the religious right didn’t sit out because of a Republican candidate wasn’t to their liking. They supported Trump because they felt Clinton was anti Christian.

Finally the second amendment was a huge issue. The NRA spent millions in support of Trump. Clinton made it clear she wanted Austrian style gun laws. Many shoot to hunt, and the sport of 3 gun is the fastest growing shooting sport in the USA. For those that don’t know, 3 gun is the use of a pistol, rifle and shot gun. The pistols are usually “high capacity” semi automatic guns such as Glocks and S&W M&Ps with extensions on the magazines, semi auto shotguns with extended tubes to hold extra rounds and AR15s. The object is to shoot as many targets as fast as you can going through what is basically an obstacle course. Some targets are no shoots and some are spinning wheels and other crazy things. Some matches have people shooting from boats, swinging bridges and even moving cars. Just watching is exciting.

And I guess some viewed Trump as the macho crash New Yorker who wasn’t indebted to the special interests. Basically he was the outsider who was the polar opposite to Clinton’s insider.

As facts come out about the election. It’s clear many didn’t want Trump to win and all sorts of crimes may have been committed. These ranged from college students registering dead people in Virginia, to corruption in the FBI. Donna Brazille getting the debate questions ahead of time and giving them to Clinton.

The reality is Trumps Win wasn’t just white guys telling their wives to vote for him. Nor was it about sexism or masculinity. Basically we have a divided nation. The big cities voted for her and the rest of the nation voted for him.

This fall Virginia will elect one of our two US Senators. Clinton’s running mate Tom Kaine is running for re-election. He supports the Obama and Clinton positions. His opponent will be Corey Stewart a very vocal supporter of Trump.

Northern Virginia, Richmond and Norfolk/Newport News will vote for Kaine. The rest of the state for Stewart. Whoever gets the most voters to come out will win. And again it’s not about masculinity, but rather if we’ll support Trump and his views on nationalism and economics or if we’ll support his opponents and the move to globalism and progressiveness.

Stay tuned to the first Tuesday following the first Monday in November to find out.

 

@tomf_22033 well said. Agree completely with your well thought reply. One thing you glazed over was the lefts war with christianity. This has been going on for some time. Its one thing to disagree with someone but they were out to destroy and marginalize christianity in this country for some time. Especially situations with the cake baker and the gay couple situation. This country was founded on religious freedoms so seeing things like that happen put a lot of people in the enough is enough side.

 

I agree but I was giving a “quick” analysis and keep things as factual and unbiased as possible.

I could write books on this election and not cover all of the issues with both candidates.

 

I still can't talk about the election without shaking, so I'll be extremely brief. I will not visit this thread again, so no need to reply to me as I will not respond.

As a Christian, he horrifies me. As an American, he disgusts me.

Yes, I fully believe the 2016 results were "the last gasp of the whites."
IIn 2008 when Obama was elected, the number of death threats sent to the White House increased by 1000%. This country was not ready for a black President.

In the 2012 election all the analysts agreed it was the last election that could be won with only white male votes. 2016 was decided by white men and white women.

 

This is a bit revisionist.
White support for Obama was extensive. Especially initially.

Yes he had record threats, and yes there are many racists in the US. But racism isn’t unique to the US and to whites. Japan is a very racist country, and an example of one that tries to be as homogeneous as possible. China likewise.

I’ve worked in Washington DC and can tell you about many of the black people who work for the federal government who are racist. I can tell you about a group of Muslims who I witnessed spit on a white person when politely asked to allow them to get past them a store in a DC suburb. Neither means all black people and all Muslims are racist. But rather it means there are racists in all groups.

I don’t like either political party for a multitude of reasons. But I don’t like gross generalizations more. And the rhetoric being spewed by both sides is vile.

Tomorrow is the annual Congressional baseball game where the Democrats member of Congress play against the Republicans. A year ago, members of the Republican team were shot and almost killed by a far left loon. We forget that the game is a symbol of the two parties coming together to civilly compete but also to jointly raise money for charity.

The late Democratic Speaker of the House Tip O’Neil would talk about how when he was in office the two parties would fight like cats and dogs in Congress. But after the work was done they’d go down the street to the bar and have drinks together. Members from both sides would by each other drinks and have civil discussions, they’d find commonality and work out compromises to find solutions to the fighting they couldn’t resolve in the chamber. Politics wasn’t personal.

While my comments above seem right leaning, he’s where the shift occurs. I blame a great deal of the push to personalizing and not compromising on the Tea Party. These far right zealots felt that Republicans didn’t hold their ground. They pushed out moderate Republicans and shifted the party to the right.

Worse, under Bill Clinton’s presidency they impeached him, knowing they didn’t have the votes to remove him. Now many who follow this stuff closely, myself included, feel the impeachment was a direct attempt to remove Hillary from DC and to lessen her position in politics. To say she wasn’t liked by many is an understatement. Her rudeness to staffers, security, and opponents is well documented. Her violent tirades likewise.

Finally, while Bill was fairly centrist, she was much further left than him. A position that runs full circle to the original topic. If we jump to 2016 the election then became between a progressive woman who clearly would continue us down the path to globalism, or a rude, crude and at times offensive businessman who supported the nation state and American interest.

So to many the choice was between a dishonest, violent and as we now see potentially mentally unstable woman who was for globalism, or the aforementioned male for nationalism.

Again, the large cities chose the former, and the rest of the nation chose the later. As for the last of the white vote comment, in 2016 while Trump received a tiny amount of the black vote he received more than twice the black vote of previous Republicans, a since the election polls have show his support is growing.

2016 was also difficult to analyze in some respects as poll data was inaccurate. Many Trump supporters didn’t respond to polls giving Clinton an artificial lead. Many still don’t. Add people like myself who are not a member of either party and called by the media as “swing voters” who don’t usually disclose who I support and it makes more difficult.

As the economy improves and as people like Kanye West, Jim Brown etc meet with Trump his standing in the black community increases. Many of them talk about his private persona being very different than that of the public one he uses to fight the left.

Sadly too many look at Clinton and Trump as snapshots. Like the original topic many try to position them based on an issue. This is wrong as both are complex, and offensive to about half the nation. Well Clinton may now be offensive to the majority of the nation as her behavior is becoming even more apparent as she makes excuses for her loss and fails to see her mistakes in the campaign.

Ironically in the complex analysis of 2016 her loss is easy to figure out. Her famous deplorable speech cost her the election. That speech violated a basic rule of politics which says to never attack the opposing sides supporters. As we’ve learned Deplorable became a ralley cry and brought out people who may not have voted. It energized the right in states that were close and gave Trump the electoral college win that he needed.

That speech more than any on an issue IMHO did more to hurt Clinton than she’ll admit. Worse, those who have pushed the Democratic Party further left don’t acknowledge it as the main reason she lost.

Clinton lost previously to unknown Obama. And while she’s a smart politician as far as managing the party and in working the machine in DC she’s a horrible campaigner. Even so, all she had to do was not give that speech and she would have won in 2016. Making excuses and not accepting that instead of accepting it, learning from it will keep her from having a chance at a rematch.

 

White women ....but not of all women
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/voter-turnout-2016-elections

But only 58% of voters bothered to express a preference.

Like in the UK too I would like to see participation in elections compulsory as it is in Australia. You can always spoil your paper. BTW I would also like the number of spoiled papers to be announced as part of the results.

 

Without bringing more specific political points into the discussion (certainly guilty of that in My first post!)... One thing is for certain : the US is a country heavily divided in its current status.

No, all citizens have never agreed on everything - and never will... But we only deepen those chasms amongst us with derisive remarks to one another, regardless of what party or country one claims.

Back to the OP. I'd say we have a long way to go before feminism settles in for the long haul. Slow and steady will win the race, though.

I hope to see that significant shift in My lifetime.

 

Yes we’ve always been divided, but we’ve always worked together. This is probably our most dangerous time since the Great Depression and possibly the Civil War. Only time will tell if we can come together and heal again or if we explode into war.

That aside, I think what has been called feminism is dying. I hope that we are seeing a new replacement based on the power of women and their natural ability to be nurturing leaders being born. Some call it female supremacy but like feminism that’s a loaded term.

I’m not sure how this replacement will look, but discussions I’ve had indicate that it may be a rapid transition (by historical standards) and may be quite broad in its effect.

I do think that we will see more political turmoil before people are willing to finally say enough with both existing parties and move to the future.

I’m not sure who the rising stars will be. Nicki Haley on the right may be one that come to mind. But is see her as a transitional figure. Elizabeth Warren on the left is too old and to extreme. So I suspect the new stars are waiting in the wings and will appear as the parties die as we currently know them

 

Ironically enough, I find it quite interesting that female supremacy and feminism are polar opposite ideas. This fact is lost on many people... I loathe the former, but firmly support the latter.

I'm sure some will not be able to get past the source of this video, but that part isn't important. Perhaps the author in this interview can provide some fresh insights about feminism for anyone curious about what it actually means...

​

 

ok a few questions. Feminism is to be celebrated but masculinity is toxic? Just trying to understand, its an honest question.
I was reading about a gender pay gap study and the authors said there are major differences between fields of work that men and women choose to enter. They said women tend to pick fields of work that offer them a well rounded work vs family balanced life whereas men tend to choose the higher demanding jobs that cause them to have less family time. Now no-one is forcing these women to make such decisions, they are adults and can choose for themselves. So what does this say about feminism in the US? Cause I gotta be honest, and this is only my opinion, but it seems women for the most part have rejected feminism and instead want a job where they can have a family life too.
I liked a lot of what she had to say in the interview but she completely lost me when she brought up justice at the end. We can strive for equal outcomes but you will always lose me when you expect the government to legislate equality. Its been proven over the years it simply doesnt work. I guess we dont know what she was advocating with that statement but regardless social justice is a complete failure IMO.

 

I completely agree. We will never come together as americans in unity until something is done about the hatred on both sides.

 

Masculinity is equivalent to femininity. Not feminism. These are entirely different things, but not mutually exclusive... Feminism is about gender equality, not superiority.

Further, I personally don't think masculinity is toxic - not by a long shot. Regarding either of the binary genders as superior is where I take issue. I don't think any gender equality issues will ever be solved if the situation is seen as something to only be 'flipped' with women placed on top, rather than bringing gender status into equilibrium.

Maybe that's a pipedream, but I'll continue smoking.

Perhaps I am the wrong woman to answer that question... because I have chosen to work in a demanding, male-dominated field. Quite literally, in fact. Although there's schooling involved, I work with tractors and heavy machinery. I elect to get (extremely) dirty and work long hours in a grueling farm setting more often than not, this summer being a total anomaly. I also have no interest in bearing children, so... lol. There are many things I don't align with when it comes to conventional gender roles, regardless of biological sex. I mention this, because I am quite sure there are other women like Me, in these ways...

So what do those observations about the workplace say about feminism in the US, you ask? I might also have a different opinion there. For instance, paid family leave for men and women has been a popular issue raised in the workplace, particularly in the past several years. This is because more people are pushing for equal gender rights (i.e. feminism). I am sure many women out there aim to be mothers and take their employment options into account to fit that criteria, because paid family leave isn't terribly widespread (yet). You're right, some women are just as guilty of perpetuating this stereotype - and some have no interest in things changing because they are happy with the conventional status quo. That's fine too, and I hold no judgement against their happiness. That acceptance, however, shouldn't force the rest of us women to follow suit.

The place of feminism in this instance would be to remove the 'necessity' of choosing work or having a family, for either gender. Employers should offer paid family leave to both sexes for the same reason; defaulting to the notion that mothers are to take time off to raise children is just perpetuating the same problem. I'm not saying you are, only that the overwhelming majority of employers still seem to hold this opinion. Things are changing with workplace policy, just not at a fast rate - nor in equal measure across all disciplines.

These are not easy issues to overcome, obviously. It takes cohesive action by those in power to make such changes. Those people will likely require constant pushing by the general populace. That only happens if gender equality is an important issue to a representative's constituents - and also whether it's consistently vocalized as such.

You are right, we cannot rely on words written by legislators to solve social equality issues. However, if devoted people hadn't stood up for social change to alter laws in the past, we wouldn't be where we are today. So no, I don't think you can immediately legislate social equality... but in a few generations, I feel the social climate would be different if we set change in action now rather than convincing ourselves that it'll never happen.

Prohibition in any form has never worked, but shifting the very idea of what is 'just' can remove unnecessary antagonism from the picture.

I'm all for being 'politically incorrect' when that actually only means being honest. Sugar coating things or beating around the bush is not the type of political correctness I value. For Me, it's about advancing society at large and preventing hate and/or bigotry from finding any substrate to latch onto, whatsoever.

 

As an European citizen i can tell you that Europe will fall in lest than 50 years because we had been an assholes, thats why UK left the Union and why many more will do it in the future, i hope we do soon, the pools show that here at least around a 70% want to do it

Yesterday i was watching the news (i dont do often now because i suffer) and they were telling that the Eiffel Tower of Paris will be enclosed by bullet proof glass, my face was WTF? Instead of putting on a plane every terrorist you has there the solution is to spend 35 millions euros and keep the army there, yeah, very smart, and it is a shame because i visited few years ago and it is shame. France has suffered a storm of terrorism lately, thats why they are doing that

For no mention that in Bruselas there are many terrorist few meters away from the building of the European Union were all the assholes takes stupid decissions and what it is worst is that they know about it and nothing do anything about, the "refugees" that are comming here are inciviliced people and terrorists who violates womans, the press looks to other side and do nothing or kill ours, doesnt matter if it is with an ak or with a truck

If you want a proof of where are we going you only has to search for how many no-go zones we have now in Europe. A no-go zone is a ghetto in which even the police doesnt enter anymore, no law no order, you are by yourself, In my city there are two "no-go" zones in which normal people dont enter but the police does when it is necessary, you can look for them, one it is the "vacie sevilla" and the other is "las 3000 sevilla" which has it owns ghetto inside it, a ghetto inside another ghetto, it is called "las vegas sevilla" and you better have a life or die reason to enter there
I couldnt imagine how a no-go has to be that even police doesnt enter, because that two places are a thougth places, you can see guns (here you cant have one as in USA) and it is hell on the earth, i used to live close to one, a no-go has to be even worst and i dont want that for my country