All Masculinity is Toxic

As a husband my masculinity has only caused problems. We are working on reducing my masculinity. We do this a number of ways. Both mentally and physically. We are a 24/7 Domme/slave couple. We have two children and a third on the way. We are raising our children in Her household in a way that is agreeable to our way of life. I do understand your concerns, having a son. But, raising him in a home where She is in charge, wefollow her rules. And feminine is considered something to be lifted and admired and empowered. We are not emasculating him. He’s all boy. But he sees my role and he sees how much respect I have for Her. In our relationship(her and mine), we recognized that my masculinity was the worst thing for our relationship. Masculine free will is toxic in our relationship. We are a bit extreme for most, but me losing masculine characteristics has been the best thing for Her, us. I do believe masculinity causes most of the world problems. I hope my son grows to realize he is empowered to be who he wants, as long as he is caring to the world and the people on it. The article points out a few interesting points on how we learn. Losing on the playground for example. Well, I work with out son to see that there is no shame in that loss and to learn from things.

 

I read the interview and thought it was a bunch of crap. I truly believe that he believes what he is saying and it is obvious he is inteligent but he is putting two and two together and getting 22. There are two basic sexes in general and associated subgroups and each has there own strengths and weaknesses. They also interact in different ways. I hate this crap about toxic masculinity because the same could be said of toxic females. Men and women should be raised and educated according to their strengths. If a girl wants to take autoshop -awesome but dont put a boy down because he also wants to do the same. Good Men and women are not toxic.
I hope you have sucess with raising your boys. I know I had a hard time raising my son in this environment. I set the bar high and he developed a good moral compass. He is a good kid, stands up for him self and others, protects those weaker or less fortunate and will never start an unnecessary fight but will always finish one. I tried my best to raise him to follow a socratic model. He isn't there yet but life is a journey, not a destination. I also suspect that if you were to pole women on what they want, they would be comfortable with good men with well defined roles.

 

Given the common interests that most of us share on this site, the word "All" is a little on the extreme side. Many of us would like to be able to shed the expectations our society has of us, but we are some way from that.

Evolution is too slow to keep up with the exponential change of the last 100-years or so. The things now regarded as being "toxic" were considered very differently in 1918. To a certain extent, men have lost their way in the world and we need to evolve to be able to keep up. I feel that, in general, women have adapted and coped with the changes better than men.

There are many "toxic" people in the world and it's fair to accept that some of them are men.

 

Interesting article and interview.... I don't believe that masculinity or manliness is something that will go away. It is a way that males compare themselves to eachother in the idea of "what it means to be a man". The problem isn't that masculinity exists the problem is how the majority of males view what being a man is all about. Media has pushed the idea of what it means to be a man, look at all the Clint Eastwood movies, john Wayne, James Bond, Jason Bourn etc, etc... all are alpha males, who need to control the situation, be the strongest, kill the most people and then are "owed the right" to have sex with the female star. Although sexism existed centuries before mainstream media it was amplified over the last hundred years and it's only been until recently that women have had more of a voice and been able to combat sexism and unequal treatment in the work place just to name a few.

Since my wife and I have been living a chastity lifestyle and FLR I've been much more aware of the problems that women run into on a daily basis. Men can be disgusting pigs but not all men are, and many of us men want to see all people, women and men of all races on equal ground treating eachother with respect. My idea of what a man is, is very different than what I thought it meant 5 years ago. I think what all of us need to do is redefine what being masculine means. Chivalrous, respectful, strong, moral. Simple enough to live by.
As a parent of a young son myself my Miss and I believe it is incredibly important to teach him equality and fairness. That doesn't mean we don't teach him to stand up for himself when he feels something isn't right. I feel our son will grow up with more respect for women and a sense of equality for all people, he will eventually make his own choices but we will do our best to give him an excellent foundation to start from.. It all starts in the household and how we raise our children. If you raise them to respect others and treat others equally they will.

 

I could only read about half way through before I had enough. That was just a large piece of left wing liberal crap. I too have a son, a 17 year old son who’s only fights were defending people who couldn’t defend themselves. And I do say he’s a good man instead of person, because he’s good and he’s a man. He’s never emasculated anyone because of their race or gender identification or religion or anything. He has stood up in the past against bullies when it’s not the popular thing to do. There are little people who need to pick on weaker people to feel good about themselves- those are not masculine men, those are cowards!

 

Masculinity by itself is not a problem. It becomes a problem when it causes people to act in an inappropriate manner.

There are men, and there are women. Each sex has different strengths and weaknesses. They are actually very complementary. Nature wants it this way, because overall it serves to perpetuate the species.

If people want to fight nature, go ahead, but prepare to be disappointed.

 

I found the article somewhat simplistic and politically correct.

Yes male attributes are put there by us as a society, but they are put on the female gender as well. Caregiver, child rearing, etc, all good “female” traits, but hardly describes femininity. According to the article there shouldn’t be either gender qualities...just qualities. Very politically correct but not realistic given the fact that we do find certain traits more appealing on certain genders...right or wrong it just is. I find a slim dress more appealing on a female than a male, I find it to be feminine. I find 6 pack abs to be appealing more appealing on a male, I think it’s masculine.

Non binary traits that appeal to personality put a gender to them by us and the stereotypical genders we associate them with. Aggressive, controlling, assertive...masculine. Passive, giving, patience...feminine. We put gender on both good and bad traits.

I found it just as stereotypical that losing or uncompetitive was deemed feminine, and the need to win was masculine.

As far as raising children, in our home we teach and practice treating everyone with respect, which not only includes yourself, but also expecting to be treated with it as well. Respect knows no gender.

 

I wouldn't take that article to heart, it's just some dudes opinion on how he thinks the world should be. The article does make a few good points but other than that the rest is personal opinion. The author makes no mention of raising his own children or for that matter if him or his wife even had children.

My son (almost 5 years old) is also very masculine and I believe for him it's more nature than nurture, the things he likes are just more masculine and male oriented and are what he gravitates towards. Even though he is very much a boy he loves to play with girls, his first close friends from day care were all girls and he feels very comfortable around girls. He just started going to preschool this year and was disappointed because the girls at his school just want to play with the other girls, the boys only want to play with the boys lol.
My point being don't worry about your sons "masculine" behavior be more concerned that he is respectful to others. That's my opinion anyway.

 

Sorry, worry was the wrong word to use. I agree with you and didn't mean to preach lol.

 

If one defines toxic masculinity then they need todefine toxic femininty. You can't have on without the other.

The harsh reality is without masculinity you have no genetic spark or growth or rapid fire in biology or society, just dying embers to a collapsing fire.

It is why I state femininty represents the wax in a candle and masculinity the wick and spark to a flame. Society is how one manages that flame.

So if one only focuses on the problem of the fire and how to extinguish it, they will never have light, warmth, or the good smells from society.

I am not saying things don't need fixed, but the bully pulpit that has been pounding away for the past few decades has created a situation where men and masculinity sees no positivity in society. As such, women will compensate and do a good job I have no doubt, but society will eventually falter and shrink and wither until a massive event occurs. Birth rates are the canary in the coal mine, and since we are all animals ... We will follow the same pattern as all previous species. Grow or die.

So raise your boys to embrace the positive side of masculinity and learn to respect the femininty within them and in women.

I hope I am wrong but I believe we are at a Nexus where there will be a few generation of women who will be happy and content as individuals but will feel that deep and dark hole that every man feels since men can't bear and sustain life. At that point women will achieve an equality they may not wish to know where rage comes from and that is exhibited by men ...

 

The book The Descent of Man by Grayson Perry is a very interesting read about what the author calls the need for a pluralistic masculinity fit for the needs of society and the world in the 21st century.

As a species, survival in a resource-limited and over populated world with the threat of severe climate events requires different attributes to living in an under populated stone age world with apparently infinite resources with threats from wild animals.

 

we are still under the threat of wild animal, just the two legged kind. You can't even believe the evil thats out there. I saw it for two decades.

 

I read the original posted article- no comment
I promised

 

Glad to see a few people applying common sense to this topic.

I just consider the article as being something that is overly PC and lacks actual merit.

If it matters I'm not even sure where on the' gender spectrum' (if you believe in that) the author fits or if that has any bearing on the author's writing.

There are some aspects of what might be traditonally labelled masculine behaviour or traits just as there are some that would at the same time be labelled as being feminine. An individuals take on this is.. well its just their take on it, as individual as they are. The truth is there are good and bad traits soem of which we accept and some we don't to ascribe gender to these traits is just counter productive.

irrespective of gender there is right wrong and often many shades of acceptable in between.
Live with it.

 

I’m the father of two sons, now both adults. I share your uncertainty about how I feel about the perspective in this interview. What causes my uncertainty is the failure to highlight the pervasiveness of...uncertainty in social life, and in that context, the benefits to people (both men and women) of what one might call pre-emptive paranoiac behaviour. There is a saying in politics “characterise your opponent before he characterises you”. This is an analogue of the competitive/ self defensive behaviour ascribed solely to males in the interview (as an aside the interview seems to be haunted by a one dimensional idea of femininity).

In an uncertain social and political environment, there is usually a pay off to such pro active behaviour. Only if everyone else is chilled, and can be trusted, is there likely to be a negative payoff to such pro active behaviour. I see no argument to support the hidden, presumed perspective of the interviewee that as awareness spreads of toxic masculinity trust in others will justifiably grow, thus creating a virtuous circle.

As long as the risk or uncertainty of how others (male and female) will behave persists, there will be incentives at the individual and societal level for the kinds of behaviour criticised in the interview.

None of what I have said means that I don’t have sympathy with the idea that the world would be a better place if such behaviours were less prevalent. My focus though would be on finding ways to foster greater trust in society, not on “toxic masculinity”.

 

In 15 years the concept of toxic masculinity has morphed into an all out attack on things that women are less likely to say or do. The trend is exclusively targeting men and finding ways to ostracize them but...

...you do this and create discord and people ignorant of what the purpose of two different sexes actually is. I am glad I own myself. That censoring myself for approval socially is not my priority.

Because man, otherwise I would be in trouble.

 

When ever i encounter the term "toxic masculinity" there are attributes listed that would commonly apply to the stereotype of a macho.
And in that i kinda agree. These things in that extremes are kinda toxic.
But those attributes aren't limited to only men. This disrespectful behavior can be exhibited by anyone and these traits seem to spread more and more. Sadly more on the male side than on the female side.

I wish more people were like what you would attribute to the stereotype of a gentleman.
Strong, but friendly and respectful at any given time.

 

Let us please remember what gentleman means
and what they were really like.

During the Victorian era, when someone was called Victorian gentlemen, it meant that they did not need to work in order to earn money or perform any manual labour in order to live and survive. Also, this type of man was classified by owning their own land and having a particularly generous income.

Byron and Wilde come to mind. though neither lived soley off their income

The behaviour of many a young gentleman generally left much to be desired.. after public school (that is to say an expensive private education) drinking gambling and womanising comprised the usual pastimes... as they had little if anything to lay claim to their time... oher than fitting in with their peer group

As far as their attitude towards women was concerned they generally left much to be desired... it would be more fitting to call many of them 'Rakes'..

Both gentelmen and rakes of the time were a far cry from what many percieve gentleman to mean today. being the kind of person that befits the concieved meaning today is more of a way of life, polite kind generous in spirit ...with income and financial status being not such important as attributes as say attitude and demenour today.

In the same vain I know women that would be appalled even feel insulted if they were to be addressed as Ladies.

Ladies did not work for a living ad were invariably dependent on their husbands and fathers for their wealth and position in life. often they had little worth in themselves and were quite shallow people running around in massive dresses and crinoline. The nearest they could get to doing any kind of work was getting involvded with charity work. Many of them were quite pathetic really though the charity work did often put them in good standing with the community.

 

I suspect @CD_Erika was thinking of the contemporary understanding of the word “gentleman,” rather than the Victorian.

Interesting how the meanings of words change over the years.

 

Exactly that.