80%

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by PouchPantyLover, Jan 31, 2020.

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  1. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    So anyone that follows me or reads my posts knows I have a very up and down FLR and chastity relationship with my wife and Mistress. I am trying hard to take a more thoughtful and cautious approach this time around. One of the things in the past that troubled me was her lack of enforcement of her rules and expectations. If she expects the bed to be made every day, there should be consequences when it isn't. What those consequences are can be her choice, but if nothing happens when I fail to meet expectations, then I get frustrated. I get frustrated because I end up feeling like I'm doing it because I want to. That she is humoring me by allowing me to serve her as opposed to reveling in her control over me and forcing me to serve her.

    As in past times I have noticed this trend of not really caring when something is missed and I've tried to take a more measured approach. I'm thinking of it as the 80% rule. If I'm actually fulfilling 80% of her expectations she's pretty happy with that. She may on occasion do or say something about the 20% I missed or messed up on. She won't go medieval on me for it though. I think this is a fairer and more realistic version of FLR for us. I don't think I'm capable of meeting 100% of expectations and I think it would be exhausting for her to enforce that.

    To be clear I am not trying to use this to slack off. My goal is to meet 100% of her expectations and I hope she feels free to enforce discipline as she see's fit. I'm just lowering the bar on expectations for each of us in the hopes it smooths some of the wild vacillation we've experienced. What about the rest of you? Is it all or nothing? Or do you have some percentage you live with? A grey area if you will.
     
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  2. asastype
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    asastype Service sub to Mistress AMA

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    I understand your conundrum. Everyday FLR needs to have some room for life interfering with kink, but not enough that the fire goes out.

    My Keyholder Wife and i have created a task list with weekly, monthly and other periodic jobs that i need to do as part of my service submission to Her. If i don't get those done in the specified timeframe, i earn demerits which build to pre-set punishments. That keeps me focused on getting them done and the demerits allow me to miss a few when times get busy without an all-or-nothing feel. There are also times when i ask Mistress for an extension, which are generally granted.

    This does require some record-keeping, but that is kind of fun. Hope this helps!

    asa
     
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  3. Rectrix
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    Rectrix Long term member

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    I hear you ppl, and I think this is useful growth for you. Remember, though, the 80% rule applies to her too, you can't expect her to be 100% domme, and need to let her "fail" as a domme and fail to enforce the rules 20% of the time too.
     
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  4. nikkel
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    nikkel Long term member

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    sounds like topping from the bpttom .
     
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  5. Braddogg4345
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    Braddogg4345 Happily Owned by a Goddess

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    My wife and i also use a chart to track my chores. My wife has devised a point system based on how many chores i perform, and the difficulty of the chores i perform.

    every 2 weeks we have what we call a discipline session. This is basically a 30-45 minute meeting where my wife dominates me. These sessions include both pain and pleasure for me. The better i perform my chores during the 2 weeks, the more pleasure and less pain I receive. If i slack off on my chores, I receive more pain and less pleasure.

    we both like this system because the amount of punishment i get corresponds with how well i do my chores. And if my wife has a specific chore she wants done on a specific day, she will write it on her whiteboard she has hanging in the kitchen. I always make sure to prioritize the whiteboard chores. If I don’t do those, its instant punishment for me.
     
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  6. imhers24x7
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    imhers24x7 Member

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    Hello PouchyPantLover,

    please do not rate my comment as critic but as an approach to see things from another perspective.

    To me it looks like YOU WANT that she is punishing you, if you don't fulfill the tasks.
    To me it seems that this idea ("punishment") seems to be important for some of "us".
    But I would ask two questions:

    1) why are you not fulfilling your tasks, if you truly want a FLR you should do so! To me a FLR means passion to give.

    2) what is the advantage/benefit of her punishing you? It seems that you would like to get punished as part of the rules/play but I think a FLR is not about playing roles, where punishment might be part of the play.
    I think for her dealing with you not fulfilling your tasks might be annoying and as "nickel" said this sounds like topping from the bottom.

    You should try to bring it to the table, but don't be sad or frustrated if she will play after her rules.
    Honestly she should do it as it is her right to decide what she wants or not

    Do you have a written contract?
    We have one and I am in the very beginning but we had an open discussion, where I told her that I want to try out a FLR and I am aware that I have thought about it some time ago, so that I might be much ahead from the thinking/idea and she is just beginning dealing with this topic.

    I made clear, that she is the only one who is allowed to write down any rules and she came to some smart rules for the start:

    1) Speed
    She is setting the pace and arrangement of our FLR

    2) Devotion
    If she asks for requests for anything, my only answer will be "yes"

    3) Communication
    I have to communicate about everything which belongs to us or is about our relationship.

    4) Letters
    Part of my devotion is to write her weekly letters which are covering my thoughts/feelings and my love regarding her and our relationship.

    5) Exclusivity
    She requests to get all attention, there is no contact to other women which might harm the arrangements or my devotion towards her

    6) Chastity
    She requests that I'm caged and I am only allowed to come if she wants it and if she is present.
    Of course it's forbidden to put my hands on myself.


    Maybe you can show her, that you don't have any demands regarding your FLR and that it is all about her, if she is allowed to set the speed and content of your FLR?

    To answer your question:
    To me percentages are irrelevant because it should always be 100% of her expectations ;-)

    Imhers
     
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  7. BunnyAthalus
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    BunnyAthalus Long term member

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    To be honest a lot of subs struggle with this step, it can be because of misconceptions with whats in store, where you're going, what you're in for and all that kind of thing.

    Ultimately what really helped me was "maintenance" sessions. Basically i would be whipped, paddled, cropped and spanked, rather hard once or twice a week depending on where i was at, without any sort of play or expectation of reward after it. It was wednesday night, and whipping me was just something that happened on wednesday night.

    Now it took a little while, in my case it took probably 2-3 months for it to really set in and i broke through that barrier and dropped the pining for attention, and instead ended up in a perpetually submissive state to some degree which helped me walk away from all of that harmful and at times destructive "do me" begging things.

    When you FULLY submit to her, in perpetuity, then and ONLY then is when you've crossed the divide from "play" into subservience and true submission.

    Be warned, once you do that, there's no going back. For myself i'll do anything to get back to that state. It's not a game to me, but a state of being.
     
  8. BunnyAthalus
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    BunnyAthalus Long term member

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    Edit: double post. Forums are being really slow for me.......
     
  9. imhers24x7
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    imhers24x7 Member

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    Did she came up with the idea to do from herself?
    Or did you make some suggestions how to get your FLR improved?

    Imhers
     
  10. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    I guess there are a few people commenting not aware of my backstory. Of course this is understandable as I'm not the center of the chastity universe. I'll try to give a quick brief background. My wife and I stumbled into chastity as a game. It morphed organically into an FLR without any contracts and only one rule. Her word is law. In addition to chastity our FLR included extensive domestic service on my part as well as an attitude of respectful deference to her. When I failed in any of my responsibilities I was physically punished. We had a point system (i.e. 5 strokes for not performing a specific chore) and she could add strokes for anything she choose to. I hate my punishments when they are being administered as they hurt. However I have always been grateful for them afterwards and cross/sullen when they are skipped.

    I am a firm believer that submission is not taken by a dominant, it is a gift given by the submissive to someone worthy of the power. I also believe that submisives have a right to expectations. I know both of these beliefs fly in the face of what some believe, more power to you, but that isn't me and her. While I hold no specific expectations for my submission (She must do X for me to provide Y) I do have the general expectation that she acts dominant. That she is worthy of and expects all that I give her. That her needs are superior to mine. That her comfort and leisure comes first and she is untroubled by guilt associated with a more evenly balanced or shared load dynamic.

    While we have had many years of pleasure from our FLR dynamic we have also had problems. Some big and many small. When these problems reach a tipping point (I call them spin outs) we end our FLR. We always come back to it. Frankly she has been the driver in most of these spin outs and she has usually been the one to re-institute the FLR dynamic. Still I know from experience and analysis that my expectations have played a part in this. My thought on the 80% rule is to temper my expectations. Yes @Rectrix I am thinking primarily of her. My goal is to still meet 100% of expectations, I'm just not all wound up that I need to be punished for forgetting to take the trash out. If she wants to, more power to her, it's her choice. I'm just trying to build-in a degree of slack to allow our FLR to coexist with the rest of our lives.
     
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  11. asastype
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    asastype Service sub to Mistress AMA

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    Thanks for sharing. I'm impressed that you can recover from those spin-outs. That seems like it would be hard. Can you share some of the ways that you restart?

    asa
     
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  12. Blue00
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    I really like the general categories and the simplicity of these rules. Also, these rules are 100% focused on benefiting her. It is something I could see my own spouse writing for me in the future. Thank you so much for sharing.

    I contrast those Domme focused rules to the comment of the original post. I completely understand the desire to have ones own wants fulfilled by one's Domme. However, the doesn't the Domme determine what happens in a relationship? If the Domme doesn't want to punish, then she doesn't want to do that. Why should she participate in something she is not interested in doing? What is her incentive/motivation? I'm sorry that I don't have an answer, but perhaps reflecting might lead you to the answer you seek for your own situation.
     
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  13. BunnyAthalus
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    BunnyAthalus Long term member

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    Well not every domme is suited for every sub is the simplest way to put it.

    There are dommes that are into extreme humiliation, embarrassing their subs. There are dommes that have a no touching policy and you never get to have any form of intimate contact at all, whether that's holding hands, or worship or anything like that...

    A domme like that is just not compatible with me in anyway. Someone like that would gut my fragile self-esteem and make me feel like a possession like a handbag.... rather then a partner they loved and cared for. It'd probably end with suicide, rather then a devoted loyal sub.

    BUT

    A domme that loves me, despite inflicting whippings and maintenance sessions on me for some sadist urges.... one that lets me put my head in her lap and fall asleep holding her.... I'd go to the fucking ends of the earth to please.

    Some people are suited to one of the other. So the dynamic of "If she doesn't call every single line or rule ever in the entire dynamic, then she isn't a REAL domme" is really just a gatekeeping act that excludes a lot of people with arbitrary lines that mean nothing. You don't have to ignore your subs needs to be a domme.
     
  14. MrsBR_Saiph
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    MrsBR_Saiph Hotwife & Keyholder
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    Agreed being a good domme for me is about caring for my sub's needs.
     
  15. salonslave
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    salonslave I play for a living and work for fun.

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    Our lives have certainly blossomed now that my wife spanks me every day. Usually she simply uses a bamboo back scratcher. Also at least once a day she asks me straight out, “Do you need a spanking?”
    It is always on my bear ass. Last week she told me she would wait while I shaved my butt. I awkwardly clipped then shaved my butt. It was so smooth that I almost got turned on feeling it. She said she likes to see the stripes and a shaved but shows them better. I ALWAYS have pain in my butt. . . . Talk about a pain in the ass!
     
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  16. BunnyAthalus
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    BunnyAthalus Long term member

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    I never did every day lol, but once or twice a week REALLY helped me cross that divide and made me a lot more attentive to her needs.

    Weird how that works, it was just something that kinda happened
     
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  17. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    Most of the time she just misses my service and attitude and just informs me that I'm going to lock back-up and resume my service to her. Some times I resist, but the truth of the matter is I'm happier in the FLR than out. Keep in mind we have been married almost 20 years and lived together for three years before that. FLR and chastity is a new addition as opposed to our entire relationship. We're more committed to our marriage than our FLR. Not that they have to be mutually exclusive.

    I will share one time where the spin out was totally my fault. I had unrealistic expectations about what she "should" do. I started focusing on everything I wasn't getting. She had me unlock for some family event and I refused to lock back up when told to. I expressed my frustration over the lack of attention and she got mad. We just let it go and gradually as couples do the anger fades and the love remains. We kissed and made up and I apologized, but there was no mention of chastity or FLR. When I brought it up she said she was done as she was tired of feeling like a failure for not living up to my expectations. That hurt when she said it, but I knew it was right.

    After a few more weeks went by I put the cage back on and went to her with my key. I told her that I wanted to serve her and worship her. That if she didn't want to be involved that was OK, but if she was willing I had two favors to ask. I asked if she would hold my key and allow me to call her Mistress. She said yes to both.
     
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  18. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    Correct, but what if she does. What if she goes 6 months administering strict weekly punishments? What if it becomes an enshrined routine? What if she stops, but continues to threaten punishment? How would you as a sub react to this change. I can miss a week here or there, I can miss a couple in a row. At 3 weeks I almost always spin out. So far this time I've been going about a month and we haven't had a single punishment. It leaves me feeling not very submissive, but no spin outs.

    I do (at least for now) feel like I do have an answer. I am trying not to predicate my submissiveness on her dominance. This is completely different from how we have operated in the past. When she wasn't being dominant I revolted. This is what I was trying to express with my 80% concept. This morning I overslept. She took dogs for a walk and I didn't have her coffee waiting for her. in the past this would have me falling over myself apologizing and her assigning at least 5 strokes. This time I said "I'm sorry Mistress" and she repled "get up and get to work on your chores". I prefer the old way, but this seems to be the new way.
     
  19. Freaky Rabbit
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    Freaky Rabbit Long term member

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    You wrote: If she expects the bed to be made every day, there should be consequences.

    The word "Should" is what is a problem. How about "I would like". You communicate to her what you like, and she decides. That is FLR, in my opinion.

    I used to be in the same boat, and we both got very frustrated. I was never satisfied with her. The day I realized I need to be submissive, and follow what she wants, than she is more likely give me what I want - her control.

    Good luck. Just surrender.
     
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  20. Blue00
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    This needs to be on a t-shirt “Just Surrender.” Two words, but simple advice. What a sub wants are gifts from the Domme. Gifts are always appreciated and never expected. Surrender first and the rest seems to follow.

    I wanted to give my wife a back rub. Some might say that is service to her, but I would argue it was a gift for me. Yes she benefits, but it was a gift for me to be able to spend so much time getting lost in the sensation of her skin and muscles under my fingertips as she relaxed under my touches.

    If a sub wants punishment then it is a gift from the Domme in a similar way. I suspect the realization of a lost opportunity to please your Domme is the true negative consequence when you sleep in and don’t get to make her coffee or fail to execute tasks fully. It’s a missed smile from her, a missed hug, or a missed chance to feel her dominance.

    It is really difficult putting her needs above your own. Not everyone can do that. If you have the right Domme, she will understand what you need and ensure you get it on her terms. Also remember that intermittent rewards re-enforce behavior much better than rewards with each task performed.
     
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  21. MrsBR_Saiph
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    MrsBR_Saiph Hotwife & Keyholder
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    Nicely said
     
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  22. imhers24x7
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    imhers24x7 Member

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    Hello,

    This is not meant as an offense, even more because everybody should do what fit's into their idea of a FLR, but...
    ... I totally don't get why men thinks that a woman who is in a FLR should be bothered with punishment.
    Everytime I read this, I think, that the punishment is not really a punishment, but if we're more open something what they (men) looking forward to either because the enjoy the pain or like the feel of submission that comes with it.

    But why would/should a woman do this, if she is not doing it already (if she would enjoy punishments)?
    I want that my woman tell me, either you keep your promises or we stop this. This is power!

    For me, a FLR is on top of an relationship and in a relationship there should be no punishments, as long as it is not part of kink/playtime.

    I really would like to hear the feedback from all woman/mistresses in here.

    Imhers
     
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  23. GoddessG
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    Verified Female

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    As a keyholder (when it suits me..) - you are a wonderful sub in a FLR!
    I shall be screen grabbing your comment to show my man/slave/maggot. He has much to learn.
    Kudos to your keyholder :+1::lockkey:
     
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  24. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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    As much as “serving is it’s own reward” and all that stuff about it’s all about her etc...yes it may be that way for some...but this sub needs subbie ammunition. I need to fuel the tank and being put in my place, punished, told to do things and endure for her is what does that.

    I don’t believe all submissive men have the same make up or need, and truly believe that subs come in a range of neediness. Some very independent and selfless subs truly do get all their motivation from their partners happiness. Some are higher on the needy scale and require input. Nothing wrong with either, but lumping all submissives into one level and all who fall short are not good subs, is not what I think is realistic.

    I certainly think I am pretty good to my wife, but I also feel that I need the motivation, the ammunition, the fuel to do it. I am a better partner like this, I’m a better husband, and I’m a better person like this. It’s one of the main reasons I am in chastity and serve her...to be better. It’s not exactly natural though, without that fuel I tucker out and return to my old self.
     
  25. PouchPantyLover
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    PouchPantyLover Long term member

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    I really think the point I was trying to make with this thread wasn't clear. What I was trying to say is that I am working on letting go of expectations. Both her expectations of me and mine of her. Yes, I believe a sub can have expectations. The way our FLR evolved is that in the early stages I would do something nice for her. Like one day I made the bed. She noticed and said I like you making the bed. So I did it a few more times. Then I had a rough day at work, up early, home late. When we went to bed the bed was not made. She was displeased and made me aware of it verbally and physically. This is just how things evolved. Eventually we reached a point where I was made to keep track of a list of infractions that I submitted to her once a week. She would then review the list and dole out punishment that she saw fit. What became a point of friction between us is when she lost interest in the list and the punishments. What I've come to realize through dialogue with my Mistress is that if I'm doing my job for the most part very well and I commit some minor infraction, she doesn't like punishing me. Similarly she doesn't like me being judgemental of her enforcement of discipline. Thus I came up with this 80% concept. The main point is if I'm doing a good job pleasing her and she is happy that is what's important. On the other hand I was late to a meeting with her last week. Later that night she broke out the cane and gave me a stroke for each minute I was late. This reminds me overall to be obedient and respectful at all times. It's less about the minutiae and more about the overall experience. This seems to be working better for us.
     
    asastype, Blue00 and Rectrix like this.
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