Thoughts on establishing a permanent sustainable FLR

This is an interesting essay. The way you wrote it leaves me with a question.
It is only consent if there is an option. On one hand you make it sound as if you are forced into this situation and even if you thought it abusive you would still be stuck with it. On the other hand you make it sound like it is something you actually desire and are comfortable with.
My question would be is this an act of love on her part and she knows you are happy with the relationship? Or if you truly felt abused and it was causing you depression or serious unhappiness and you needed something to change would she tell you to hit the road?

 

An interesting perspective, and persuasively argued.

 

a xx thoughts who is in a flr for many decades.
an assumption that the xy sex drive is always greater than the xx has a annoyed me.
the assumption that an xy can not be as attentive after orgasm does not happen in my world.
for a flr to work he must be a submissive is not an imperative.
chastity devices need not to be a tool of denial just one of control.
if i require his consent to each command we are in a mlr.
days upon days of teasing and edging that goes on for months and eventually years sounds like a high price for a flr that probably is in reality a mlr..

advice given to young ma'ats: forget all assumptiona about sexuality that xys want you to believe. they will only hinder your road to becoming a successful ma'at.

 

It sounds like you’ve achieved real “enforced” male chastity, it’s no longer a game, but rather a lifestyle and one that she will not give up without a fight. You may not always want or like it, but it’s there for your own good.

 

I don’t disagree but I’ve observed that many vanilla marriages are similar in their lack of consent and yet no one is critical of them. I know a few married men who hate their mid-6-figure jobs. They can’t quit in order to take a low to mid 5-figure job they’d love. Why? Because they know their wife will leave them if they do it.

However, when someone thoughtfully builds a CNC D/s relationship everybody in “Kink World”, gets concerned.

 

Actually many of us get concerned. A few years ago Jane got Missy involved as a volunteer in our local women's abuse organization for a couple of years. There were any number of "vanilla" or "normal" relationships that were abusive. Some wives even felt like they were raped by their husbands regularly. That is in fact where the expression "It is only consent if there is an option" came from.
In SubSuggler's case I believe there is consent and love on both sides. But the way he wrote his final paragraph it sounded as if even if he went into depression and and needed to take a break from the life style or just needed his wife to soften it a bit long term she would tell him that is his problem and either buck up or move out. I hope that is not the case and he is strictly talking about the present. I hope if such a thing happened to him she would do what she had to to help him heal.

 

I think that answers my question. I enjoy reading many of your posts and I was enjoying this post. That last paragraph came on so strong to me that I wondered if there had been a recent change in your relationship to the extent you were feeling trapped. That maybe her love for you was morphing from a love for you into a love of the power and control and your feelings and even your mental health were no longer being taken into account at all.
It seems all is well in your household and I feel better about your post now.

 

This may be necessary in some relationships. In ours, if she needed to exert control at all times, then I have failed in my service, and so has she as the leader. My role is to remove the need for active control. If she needed to control at all times, it would be too much work to be sustainable for her. When she decides to exert control however...

Coercion is not something that is present in our relationship for the simple fact that we both want it. If something is not working out, for her or myself, we sit down, have a glass of wine and talk about it. If you agree, you don't need to coerce. Again, for us this is a more sustainable approach.

I think it helps to remember, especially when mentoring others, is there are many degrees of D/s to be considered. I think each woman in the case of a FLR, needs to learn what her style and expectations are. As many will attest, it takes time.

I like your post and the thought that went into it. Thanks for the provoked thought of the day!

 

I tried teasing her once. That mistake will not be repeated.

Respectfully, I'm going to make another broad assumption here. I frequently read on this forum that after a woman takes control of sex, her desire for sex seems to increase dramatically. This is true in my own relationship. Once she was comfortable saying when, where, how, and how much, her desire for sex of all kinds increased. The question of; with who, is for you advanced members. I think the key is; she now has control and can set the terms. In the past, she was never able to realize that level of comfort. So, her desire could not flourish. My greatest experience has been watching her sexuality freely emerge.

 

I hope she achieves safe n responsible sexual freedom with whoever partner(s) she desires.. n the male sub ( u or your frend) willingly be enforced chasity while gladly supporting her in her pursuits. That would be d hallwark of my relationship with my wife too.. which we r stil working on towards..

 

There is another possibility - my wife’s approach was to steadily establish rules for me starting very soon after we began dating, and enforce them consistently. At first the enforcement was that she was clearly disappointed with me if I argued with her and the only way to get back into her favor was to back down.

Not long after that she told me that it was a deal breaker for our continued relationship if I didn’t agree to hear her point of view and show her that I understood it before I presented my own. She said this was how we were going to avoid conflict. I asked her whether she meant only when there was an argument, or at all times, and she said ‘at all times’. She said it was a deal breaker if I didn’t agree. I had a strong feeling that she was establishing and FLR and being submissive I did of course agree. This was only a few weeks in to dating, and she immediately started to enforce it by firmly reminding me when I wasn’t following the rule.

She soon added some other rules like it not being acceptable for me to make her wrong, or offer unhelpful opinions, and at some point she said that it would be helpful for us to write the rules down. She said it was working well and that most couples would be better off if they figured out what rules made their relationships work.

So we started a document. Soon after that she asked me if I liked dominant women, to which I obviously said yes. Not long after that she said I would need to agree to obey her if we were going to keep doing this. She added rules about what it precisely meant to ‘obey’ her. This wasn’t as simple as just doing as I was told - I had to take anything that even sounded like a preference or a suggestion as something to be obeyed.

Then we got engaged and she said the rules were going to be part of our marriage vows. We would live by them and work on them until we got married, at which point they would become permanent.

She added a section for herself which started out by saying she believed in male submission. It stated it was her role to correct me any time I violated any of the rules, that she would never temper her fierceness and seriousness when correcting me or setting expectations, and that when she corrected me I would be required to prove to her I understood what was expected of me, and she would never allow me to escape this step. There was language about how anything else would be unfair to me given the commitment I had made to her.

As we got closer to the wedding, she added a few more rules - I needed to apologize immediate if I resisted her, I needed to proactively let her know I had violated any of the rules and ask for correction, and I needed to apologize for my mistakes and receive correction with gratitude for her efforts.

As you can imagine, as a submissive I was very into this. It was a very intense time because I could feel how strict she was, and I was totally turned on by that, and at the same time, when she was correcting me, she wasn’t playing around - she was serious and expected me to live up to what I had agreed to.

By the time we got married, there were a few final rules added. Many more than I have listed here, but some of the more serious ones: I wasn’t allowed to do anything she hadn’t given me explicit permission for. Not that I had to ask every time for things I knew she had approved of, but if there was something new I had not asked her about, I would always need to ask first and and expect boundaries and limits if I was given permission. No negotiating, was added as a rule. Not that I couldn’t have an opinion, in fact I was required to offer any helpful opinions, just that I couldn’t say anything that seemed like I was trading one thing for another or trying to influence her in any way other than asking respectfully.

The final rules were that the agreement was a description of the nature of our relationship and that no other relationship was possible. That we were both consenting to the agreement, and would need to consent to any future changes. I would not be allowed to talk about the agreement or rules without her explicit permission, and she would decide if and when any future version might be needed.

There was a section that was me agreeing that I would once I signed it, I would be held to what I was agreeing to at all times and there would be no exceptions for any reason, and a section saying that I was accepting her power and authority over me and that this agreement could not be unmade, but only more deeply understood.

A few weeks before we got married she gave me a serious warning that if I signed our agreement she was going to hold me to it so I better know what I was doing. There was nothing playful in her tone.

It took about 18 months to get from first meeting her to signing the agreement with her establishing and enforcing the rules steadily as she went along. The agreement was all written in first person statements “I will…”, “I will never”, “I ask that you never hold back or temper correction…” etc.

On our wedding day, she had me kneel in front of her and read each rule to her, and then sign a printed copy, and then she read her side to me standing as I was kneeling, and signed her side.

 

I agree!

 

well argued

 

that is one serious impressive woman you married , and to say she truly knows what she wants is a gross understatement