Chastity cages and Christianity

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Guest 3944, May 13, 2021.

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  1. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Not correct (fir the Christian) Filtee. The Bible must be thought of as a comprehensive whole. The Jewish consider the New Testament to be somewhat irrelevant.

    Christ fulfills the law for us. The law is our standard. Still relevant.

    The Christian accepts that he cannot adequately fulfill the law and turns to Christ to be redeemed by His grace.

    This is why the non believer can get confused and dismiss Christianity as being hypocritical.

    In other words: I must faithfully TRY to do good. But I know as a human I will fall short. I’m only saved by faith that Christ paid the price for my sin.
     
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  2. ChasteJase
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    ChasteJase Long term member

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    I guess you jinxed it.
     
  3. littleguy3
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    littleguy3 Adoring husband

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    This is awesome! You're helping me think thru another aspect of the marital dynamic with your observations about servant leadership. It is fantastic and stunning to my wife and I that our sex life can so good also! We share your passion! Yes He is! Gracious!
     
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  4. littleguy3
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    littleguy3 Adoring husband

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    You might want to visit a few more churches because there are more than you realize already preaching the truth especially as it applies to the treatment and value of women and not the abuse and obectifying of them. The Bible and Jesus clearly supports the concepts of living a chaste lifestyle, sacrificial love towards your wife and others, and valuing women. But mankind has distorted that message, rejected it for selfish reasons, and persecuted those who preached it. Jesus came to confront those who distorted that truth and was crucified for it. Why does that make you hostile towards Him?
     
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  5. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    If I have to visit more than one place of worship to find people progressive enough, that's one too many. As for hostility toward Jesus....Where and how was I hostile?
     
  6. littleguy3
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    My apologies. Although my post was about Jesus and his teaching, I realize now in re-reading your reply that your hostility was directed towards me.
     
  7. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    Absolutely not. There is and was no hostility directed toward anyone. I find your posts interesting, and agree with a lot of what you say. Please explain how and where I attacked you personally and I shall apologize.
     
  8. Lazlo Toth
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    Jay,

    May I ask for your help? It’s critical in a dialogue that folks know/understand how others are thinking so that you can effectively share ideas. It’s tough to do if the premise assumed is incorrect. (Not agreed with, but your (my) premise is incorrect)

    So that I may know where you are coming from, can you summarize what a Christian believes and why he finds it important? Specifically, what is the perceived (by humans) timeline of Christ?

    Thanks. You don’t owe an answer. I just would like to know what you see as the Christian belief so I can better appreciate your positions and questions. Your opinion matters, so I need to get it right.

    Thanks.
     
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  9. littleguy3
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    The "cute" comment comes across as condescending. It also implies that I am not taking an objective view of scripture and trying to make it fit with my personal view; again making yourself superior to me.

    Your "billions of women" comment isn't important to the discussion. Jesus spoke to the people of his time and then made sure that his words were kept alive and recorded so they could speak to billions throughout time. Your comments come across to me as if I'm guilty by association because I'm Christian / religious. Why place me side-by-side with those who've mistreated women except for the purpose of insinuating I can't be trusted.

    Again, same as above.

    There are many posts on this site that repeat information about chastity that have been stated many times before in different contexts on CM. There are many Christians lurking and active on this site who are finding this thread helpful and stimulating. Several of them have reached out to me directly to express that. I am active in my local church, it does not promote poisonous views, and the pastors of my church preach the truth as best as they are able. And I am now actively engaged in sharing my views on a chaste lifestyle with other Christian men as if I'm a beggar who found food and wants to help others find it too. Your suggestion is stated in such a way that you believe I'm not doing so and should take these insights elsewhere.

    I apologize if I mis-interpreted your remarks but they come across to me as very passive-aggressive and even hostile.
     
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  10. ChasteJase
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    ChasteJase Long term member

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    As to @Jay Sub 's comment about women and equality, Jesus was the OG in terms of equality.

    John 8:1-11
    A Woman Caught in Adultery
    8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

    4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

    6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

    9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

    11 “No, Lord,” she said.

    And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
     
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  11. Jay Sub
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    I think we are all on the same page, even though we look at it differently.

    As a former practicing Christian I was taught that about 2000 years ago in Bethlehem a guy called Jesus was born to Mary with no human father. Some people believe him to be the son of God sent to die for our sins. It is quite clear from the scriptures that unless I accept this as true and ask for forgiveness, no matter how moral my life I am destined to go to hell upon my death.

    Some Christians take every word of the Bible as literally the word of God, others see it as more guidelines and pick and choose (a sensible ones). Anyone who does take the Bible literally, and chooses to join an open debate quite honestly deserves to be questioned,and probably ridiculed. Blind faith is not healthy for anyone.

    I do not have any problem with any religious person, and I would stand and fight for their right to believe whatever they choose to, even if that person would not return the favour.

    I do have issues with those in charge.
     
  12. Jay Sub
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    Good for him...Very advanced for his time, no doubt. But this doesn't address the inequalities of today and every day of civilization for the last thousands of years.
     
  13. Lazlo Toth
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    Thank you for having the courage to write. It’s clear that you do not understand Christianity and who Christ is and why he is important. Therefore, I recommend you comment in the forum with that in mind.

    I’m making NO inference about your intelligence. I’m very specifically saying that you do not understand the Christian heart. Therefore, your intelligence is being wasted by proceeding under several false premises.

    My hint to you: you can’t know someone if you don’t believe they exist. And you know not who Christ is, what can anyone make of your commentary?

    This is why an honest Christian doesn’t attempt to argue that an atheist is anything more than something without God. Your belief is totally valid. May be tragically wrong, but perfectly valid.
     
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  14. Jay Sub
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    I don't apologize for the "cute" comment. It wasn't intentionally aimed directly at you. More to highlight the different ways people view scripture. Either all (literal) or picking and choosing that which either fits your life or you objectively agree with. I'm sure you don't agree with this one for instance:

    1 Timothy 2:11-15
    English Standard Version
    11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

    The question is how does someone choose what is good and bad?

    Btw.
    I do not think I am superior to anyone.

    The billions of women comment is completely relevant and I stand by it. I do not support your point about me making you guilty by association. That is a religious concept you will be more than familiar with. Original Sin comes to mind.

    I don't place you side by side with those who mistreat women. I only encourage you to go further, in gest, with irony, but also in the hope you do have those conversations with other Christians. It can only be a good thing.
    Keep up the good work spreading the good that you find.

    I never wish to convert you to my way of thinking, but you are welcome to convince me of your's.

    Bit of a ramble but I will finish with this. Your posts have been a welcome addition to the debate containing the most relevant passages relating to the subject. You obviously care a great deal about the topic.
     
  15. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    I was once a devoted Christian. I disagree completely. I understand the human heart.
     
  16. Lazlo Toth
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    It’s all I need to know! Thanks. It was clarity I sought, and it was clarity which I received!
     
  17. Jay Sub
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    Don't get me wrong. Christians are great. Salisbury Cathedral, Notre dame to name but two. The music and the beauty of communion services, Christmas. Art, science, astronomy. You have great community values, help those less fortunate through life. And I chose that life myself many years ago. But then I can't pretend I believe something I don't.
     
  18. Anthony lee
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    Anthony lee Seeking impowerment through chastity

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    Good research. Peace love and lock to you too:love:
     
  19. littleguy3
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    littleguy3 Adoring husband

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    I'd be happy to discuss your overall concerns with Christianity further & publicly in another thread, but this has gone off the topic of this thread which is "Chastity & Christianity". And I welcome thoughtful dissent. So please start another thread if you wish to take this conversation further abroad to discuss abuse & mistreatment of women by organized religion.

    I haven't studied exhaustively what the Bible & historic Christianity has to say about a chaste lifestyle. I'm more interested what's in the biblical text and am working my way through it looking for passages that relate. But so far, I find consistency in support of a man practicing chastity & denial of self / sacrificial love towards his wife. To say I'm pick and choosing biblical texts is a correct statement; I'm picking & choosing only texts that relate to the topic of this thread and the intimate relationship of a couple. Can we keep it to that and move to another thread to discuss your broader concerns? Thanks!
     
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  20. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    This is exactly the right place to discuss the way most women are treated by Christianity. I'm not going anywhere. Deal with it
     
  21. littleguy3
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    littleguy3 Adoring husband

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    Then it will be a one-sided discussion because I won't go there. And I hope others will treat your off-topic comments on this thread similarly.
     
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  22. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean my comments are off topic. They are very much on topic
     
  23. Lazlo Toth
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    And today, I gain even more clarity.
     
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  24. filltee
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    filltee Junior Member

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    The can not be thought of as either comprehensive or whole. The Bible is made up of two separate books one about jews and one about christians each of which has many parts.. Many other parts were omitted because they did not suit the Catholic church at the time

    When I'm talking to and/pr about christians I consider the Jews to be totally irrelevant except that jesus was a jew and they are responsible for his death

    If by our our standard you are referring to christians fill your boots if you are including anyone else then do not be so arrogant as to include those that are not christians

    What christians accept or not is their business and certainly none of mine

    Who are you to accuse me or any other non-christian of being confused? Chritianity like many other religions is extremely hypocritical.
    Do as I say not as I do; Is one thing many religions, zealots fanatics and loony lefties in general have in common

    What you choose to do in the name of your interpretation of your religion unless affects anyone else is completely your own business.

    Non the less the Bible is an interesting book it would be even more so were all the gospels included

    my favourite quote from the new testament (the christian book) as it stands, as incomplete as it intentionally is) because it sums up the bible for me and its significance in my life

    1 Corinthians 13:11
    King James Bible
    When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    Im willing respect anyone's choice of religion should they have one I am not prepared to accept anything about that religion that I consider to be unjust or unfair

    Christians and followers of other religions need to accept that it is perfectly ok for the rest of humanity (also the majority) not caught up in any way with that religion to hold what ever views about it they care to do so and to express or discuss those views freely with anyone they choose.

    I also uphold the view that in all fairness no person has the right to be not offended
     
  25. Lazlo Toth
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    Filltee,

    You say this: “What christians accept or not is their business and certainly none of mine”

    Why do you choose to participate in a discussion you explicitly say you have no business participating in?

    I must ask, do you believe in the things you say? I ask because your words and actions do not match.
     
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