The bible made me submissive

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Proud to be chaste, Dec 31, 2021.

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  1. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    A few months back another forum member shared some thoughts regarding male chastity and his christian faith. It was not exactly a religious post, yet the discussion ended up centering on biblical exegesis as well as on religion in general. However, as a christian man practicing male chastity, I really appreciated the original post since these are perspectives that very seldom is put forward, and I was kind of sad that it went off track.

    Perhaps this shows my lack of judgement, but I want to post a new thread of a similar kind because this really speaks to me. I don't want to judge or devide, and I really don't want to waste time discussing theology, exegesis, religion, atheism or other worldviews. So please, no replies like "you forgot that the koine greek word in this text is..." or "religion is primitive nonsense for simple-minded anti-science fundamentalists" or any other off-topic attacks. This is about male chastity, and what inspired me on my journey. Lots of love to all of you, no matter your world view, how you practice MC, or what brought you into it. This is just my story, my thoughts, my marriage and my life. If you don't like it, I love you anyway. But please don't make a big fuzz. (Sorry for the long intro, I just want to make sure it doesn't get as messy as the earlier post.)

    As a christian, the bible has inspired many aspects of my life - including my sexuality. And even though I have read many interesting blogs on male chastity, flr, etc., I can say with confidence that nothing I have read or heard has been more important for me becoming the submissive man that I am today, than the bible. This post is about the surprising connections with (my reading of) the bible and male chastity. I will also argue that we can answer (my reading of) the former posters implied question "is male chastity something that the (christian/biblical) God would approve of?" with a loud YES!! (Or even greatly encourage??)

    I see my wife and I as devote christians. For me monogamy is wonderful and regular intercourse is nothing less than AMAZING. Neither me nor my wife really need any kink to spicy things up.

    It was evident from the very beginning of our marriage that I have a significantly higher libido than my wife. At the same time, I always had a deep urge to make true selfless love (for my wife) the very purpose of my sexuality. So how to reconcile this urge with my high libido? For years the answer used to be... masturbation! Stupid, I know. The logic was: When I masturbate, I want less sex, then I will not pester her for sex. The premise behind this logic was that my higher sex-drive itself was in conflict with the desire to make my wife happy. The sex-drive was a negative force that needed to be subdued with self-gratification, rather than a force that (channeled in the right way) could be a great benefit to both my wife and our marriage.

    While she was okay with me masturbating, she wasn't happy either - especially as it over time made me initiate even less sex than she wanted. Also, making masturbation my primary outlet was conflicting with my view of what God intended marriage to be. I could share many texts, here I just meditate on two of them:

    1) I feel like Genesis ch. 1-2 has deep sexual undertones. God creates the world, and then creates male and female and places them in the garden of Eden ("Eden" translates to pleasure). Gods first "commandment" to humanity is to «be fruitful and multiply» - that is, to have sex. Perhaps God gave this «commandment» in the form of libido, if so the text simply means that both male and female are sexual beings by devine design, and that God wants us to have sex. Also note that this "commandment" is given before the fall, before sin even came into the world, and in the context of God creating male and female "in Him image". In Eden (garden of pleasure), God is present. God is (agape) love, everything is created to love. Male and female – and especially their sexuality, is made in the image of love (aka God). One could indeed argue that sex is the very opposite of sin. Sex (as God intended it) is the ultimate human expression of love. And since God is love, sex is the ultimate human expression of Gods charachter! (If this doesn't make a christian man with high libido want selfless love to be the very purpuse of his sexuality - what will??).

    In 1Cor7:4 it gets more slightly more kinky. Paul writes (in the context of sex in marriages) that a husbands body is not his own, neither is a wifes body her own. Their bodies belong to each other (1 Cor 7:4). Could this mean that one should not masturbate in marriage? I probably means more than that, but it should at least mean that! (As long as masturbation isn't encouraged by the spouse.) When he speaks about bodily ownership in context of sex, it is as if he tastefully hints to sexual organs. If your penis belongs to your wife and you masturbate whenever you feel like it, you abuse her property. Lets asume that the early christians interpreted Paul in a similar manner. If so, we shouldn't be surprised if quite a few christian couples in the churchs early days practiced a lifestyle not too far from male chastity! (honour system)


    Let’s think about it for a moment. Imagine people were just as sexual 2000 years ago. Then imagine a young, christian married man with a high libido, sitting in the church of Corinth one Sabbath morning (or Sunday, whatever) listening to the latest letter from Paul being read from the pulpit. It has been a few days since his last orgasm, and his wife hasn't been particularly sexual lately. He already knows he is to "love his wife as his own body", so forcing her to have sex is clearly not an alternative. He also knows that his sex drive is much higher than hers. And then he hears it: the husbands body belongs to the wife! He immediately realizes that he has no right to use her penis for his own gratification only. His head is racing: "But what about the fact that I am desperate for sex after a few days only? What about the fact that she according to Tora is not to have sex with me for about 2 weeks every month? Yes, she should fulfil her marital duty and I should fulfil mine (1Cor7:3), but that clearly doesn’t mean she must have sex with me whenever I want..." He feels desperate, vulnerable, helpless, almost hopeless... and to his great surprise he is suddenly very aroused! This morning service, I imagine at least a few of the men have to conceal a rock hard boner behind their robes…

    When they get home from church that day, the men submit (again pauline language!!) their sexuality to their wives. Perhaps he accepts her ownership of his body and therefore promises that he will never masturbate ever again (not without her explicit permission); he also promises to love her as his own body and therefore make her pleasure his priority, and never pressure her for sex. In return, she promises to have sex with him – but only with a frequency that she is comfortable with, which might vary greatly. Also she primoses to support him in his new dedication to her, as well as submitting her body to him and abstaining from masturbation without permission (which of course is much easier for her). (By the way, almost all of this could be reversed if the woman is the one with a higher libido - something Pauls seems to recognize will certainly be the case for some couples.)

    And then who knows what happens in the following days, months or years... Perhaps one morning a wife promises her horny husband to have sex with him that very evening, provided that he takes on him responsibility to supply their household with water for the rest of the week. Later she chuckles as he obediently carries the water. Or mayby a devoted husband is completely intoxicated with love during intercourse with his wife, and whispers: «tonight it is all about your pleasure… so if you would like me not to finish, I am happy not to». They both know he cannot finish himself, and that he has no control over when their next intercourse will take place. Even more so, she happily accepts. The next morning she smiles as he passionately snuggles her, wondering what happened to her masturbating husband and thanking God for Pauls advices to married couples...

    The bible never calls masturbation a sin, or even mention masturbation explicitly. Yet I would suggest that masturbation probably is a deviation from Gods purpose for marriage. I would never shame someone for masturbating and I don't believe God condems anyone for doing so. But I think it is better (in general) for people in commited relationships to save their sexuality for sex with their partner. It shows extreme dedication and love for one spouse (and for God?); it is a very submissive lifestyle even without a cage. I suspect that more than a few christians (or jews, muslims, etc.) during the centuries has felt the joys of being sexually submissive or dominant, even though they obviously didn't use that word and probably conceptualized it differently.

    Of course all of this is speculations. But what I can say with relative certainty, is that my primary inspiration for becoming a submissive is these and other texts in the bible. I really believe that the bible made me submissive, or at least discover and evolve my submissive sides. However, I am not a submissive that craves my wife to do certain acts, or to dress a certain way. (For those of you who are - good for you! I respect that a lot, it's just not us.) I am simply extremely turned on by the thought of making her happiness the very purpose of my sexuality.

    So what has MC done for me and me wife? It has given our marriage more love, intimacy, closeness, happiness, playfulness, joy and acceptance (especially of the disparity in libido and of each others needs and preferences in general). And to use religious vocabulary: male chastity has made our marriage a small taste of Eden, the garden of pleasure. It has helped us closer to Gods ideal for marriage as it is hinted to in the bible. In chastity, I am constantly reminded that I have huge needs that I can never meet myself. I depend on my wife and always long for her grace (to give me sexual relief), which is also a reminder of human dependancy on Gods grace. I feel helpless and sometimes humbled (MC kind of kills my masculine ego), and it reminds me to set her first in and outside the bedroom. And I have to practice a lot of patience and self control - important virtues according to Paul. My wife feels desired and adored. Only she has the privilege of providing my with the God-given love-language of sex that I need so badly. Both of us find that extremely beautiful. She is reminded that her love makes the world a better place simply because it is precious regardless its scope of influence. (Her love makes a world of difference to me in any case, but even more so when we practice MC!)

    Both of us feel more loved practicing MC. My wife absolutely loves it, even though she is not a naturally dominant. She says she wants to do it forever and that it would be beautiful if I never masturbated again. She also loves to be able to make me do stuff she likes, and she feels her dominant role in our sex life helps building her confidence in general. I happily submit to her in and outside the bedroom, and she think it is a beautiful mark of my love and dedication for her. (Which again makes me feel even more loved!)

    Male chastity can be many different things, and I don't judge anyone. But I can testify that MC can be an amazing tool for making a relationship (regardless world view) a taste of Eden (or heaven, if you would like), and help it better resemble (the biblical) Gods intention for sex and marriage. And if a sex-toy can help a couple to get closer to Gods purpose for human sexuality... Well, then I am sure He would not only approve, He would greatly encourage it! And I honestly believe that the core principles of MC - that is, the husband cannot masturbate and the wife remaining free to have sex when and how she wants (as well as deciding whether he can orgasm when having sex) - that this principles could improve most marriages.
     
  2. Nmlocked123
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    Nmlocked123 New member

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    Thank you for sharing. I have also come to decide that masturbating is not I. Line with what I should be doing in marriage. Masturbation itself is not a sin. However, the commandment not to covet or commit adultery get into the idea of lust (which Jesus said even thinking it is considered the same as doing it) which is where you get into trouble with masturbating- the lust that goes along with it. (Matthew 5:28)

    I also have some depressive tendencies and when I masturbate I end up with such a prolactin surge and a mood drop that lasts for days. My wife is in menopause and we have not had sex in at least 7 months. My options are masturbating and all the negatives or using chastity.

    the sticking point for chastity is where the Bible says not to let yourself be controlled by anything. (I am not finding the exact verse). It can be countered by other verses such as Romans 13:14 “But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires”. So too are there many references to sexual purity and not giving in to temptation. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. And then the statement by Jesus that if your hand causes you to sin you should cut it off (hyperbole) but it speaks to the idea that you can do things to help yourself overcome sin.
     
  3. MissyB
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    MissyB Long term member

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    that's a long post.
     
  4. Shepherdsflock
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    Shepherdsflock Long term member

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    Tl/Dr.

    The Bible made you submissive?
     
  5. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    Yeah, I know, sorry about that.
     
  6. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    Yeah, or at least inspired/contributed - as I explain in the post.
     
  7. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    It makes me so happy that a compulsve masturbator finds justification for their sexual deviances in the bible, lol. Maybe a job as a catholic priest is your calling.

    If god wanted your pecker caged he would have shipped you with cage rather than wait thousands of years for tech to catch up.

    People have been using christianity (which is merely a cult) to justify bad/stupid/questionable things since it replaced Dionysus with Iésous as the god of intoxification before the cult spread and we lost millenia of knowledge.
     
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  8. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    No.

    No.

    Guess you didn't even read my post. If you did this is exactly the kind of disrespectful and ignorant response I kindly asked you to avoid. Whatever.
     
  9. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Yes it does. Very much so.

    That you want to use a religous fiction to justify a sexual fantasy says a lot about how penis centred you are.

    You aren't the first relgious adherrent to use the bible to justify deviant or antisocial behaviour, nor will you be the last.

    It's only disrespectful and ignorant to a religous nut using iron age religoius dogma to justify locking his weiner in a 21st century sex toy.

    To people that respect the texts and who have lived life in chastity (without a sex toy) what you are doing is disrespectful and ignorant.

    Don't you have any of the self control god gave you?

    Go ask your family, friends, and church members if they agree that locking a sex toy on your pecker is part of gods devine plan.

    Actually no, don't do that. The last thing we need is for this bizarre nonsense to spread and for hordes of horny rampaging christian nuts in the landscape as that might AGAIN result in millions dead and humanity back in the stone age.
     
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  10. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    Wow... why the hate, bro. You don't know me. I don't use a cage, but why the hate and judgement even if I did? Also I never said that using a device is part of Gods plan, that's just silly. It is clear that you havn't read my post, and you are only here to spread hate. I will not respond to you again.
     
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  11. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Ugh, butthurt religious indignation.

    You religious folk are so binary. It's either love or hate, heaven or hell, virtue or sin, etc. when reality is nuanced and full of possibilities.

    Don't confuse disagreement with hate.

    It was foolish of me to assumed you were caged due to one of your previous posts about how you couldn't stay in your HT (V3 and V4) for very long and that 'We have decided we actually need a cage so that she can "enforce" my chastity as I clearly doesn't have enough self control.'
     
  12. Nicole Smith
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    Nicole Smith Florida Trans Girl. Verified on Fetlife.

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    He quoted scripture soooo sure.
     
  13. slvdanielle
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    slvdanielle Long term member

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    i suspect this guy is a real nut case looking for the bible to justify his fetish-i have read the bible cover to cover and cannot find anything in any of the books that states that man must lock himself up--
    By the way i thing you are simply beautiful-- and i would feel honored if i were allowed to serve You in any way
    slvdanielle
     
  14. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    How else would you describe someone who is commanded to get on their knees every day begging a dominant for forgiveness for arbirary things like wearing the wrong clothes, eating the wrong things, or not adherring to his rules regarding sex, marriage or any of a myriad of daft iron age ideas?

    Every good Christian must be a good subby.
     
  15. NM Lori
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    NM Lori Lori 5c wearer

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    Here is the interesting thing. If the Bible is fiction, then why does it upset you so much that he refers to it? See, there must be something to this whole idea of a supreme being. I don’t see anybody attacking if they talk about other “fiction” - like if James Bond drinks a certain type of booze then I should try it and people say whatever, but if somebody mentions this Bible they feel so threatened by its existence they have the uncontrolled urge to attack and insult and ridicule in hopes of getting people to also bow down to their anti religion viewpoint. Why are you so threatened if somebody believes in something.

    the Bible at its basic is a book to show us that we have made mistakes and how we can work to be better.

    what is wrong with wanting to have a moral compass and trying to not let every evil thought run our lives?

    Evil wants nothing more than to destroy people. Evil makes it a priority to attack others rather than accept.

    Also, if the Bible is fiction, why can’t a person use that fiction to feed into the fiction of their fantasy?
     
  16. Nicole Smith
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    Nicole Smith Florida Trans Girl. Verified on Fetlife.

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    Every good Christian must be kind, generous, giving, helpful, honest, welcoming, caring and forgiving. The rest is kinda blah blah blah.

    There’s a Cross on the wall in my office
     
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  17. Xileh
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    Xileh Happily Serving

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    If you need to justify chastity, which is a kink, do it as something you and your wife both want. If she agrees, that is all the justification you both need. Using a Bible interpretation to justify kink, is a bit out there.

    If you feel strongly about being a good Christian, good! There are plenty of opportunities everywhere to directly help people in need. That behavior is fully supported and encouraged by scripture.
     
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  18. Shepherdsflock
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    Shepherdsflock Long term member

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    Uh...okay. Have fun doing that. I could use a few million dollars. Can you help a girl out?
     
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  19. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    Thanks to Xileh, NM Lorie and Nicole Smith for the last three comments. These are sound responses.

    I see that the combination of a clickbait title and a extremely long post was very unstrategic. So please, before asuming stuff about me, take the time to read my (whole) post. And also, try to let go of your prejudices, don't asume anything.

    For example:
    - Don't asume that I feel the need to justify my sexual fetishes (or anything whatsoever) with the bible. I don't. I totally agree that would be far out. But that's not what my post is about. My post is about what happened to inspire me. I actually write that 5 times in my post.
    - I don't believe that you can "prove" anything whatsoever with the bible. Don't asume I am a fundamentalist just because I am openly religious and quote the bible.
    - Don't asume that I believe my interpretations are "correct". On the contrary, I explicitly state that my interpretations are "of course speculations", and nothing more than my "primary inspiration" for exploring chastity.
     
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  20. maid_carrie
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    That's quite a good description of the sort of person we like around here - not necessarily of any religious persuasion.

    I can't fathom out how someone can happily describe themselves as "Level-4 Sarcasm Master, PhD in Google, Ace Pedant." as @JaySaysYes does.

    I think it's time for some in this thread to understand that if they see a thread they don't like or feel the need to criticise, that the longstanding tradition in Chastity Mansion is to just walk on by and leave it be.

    Everyone has their point of view and no need for what's been said - just walk on by.
     
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  21. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    I'm not upset, I'm enertained.

    It's a fiction that has divided mankind for millenia, hijacked countless pagan practices, limited thinking, fostered intolerance everywhere it has spread, and been the cause of torture and death for millions of people.

    James bond is a story and shouldn't be conflated with the bible.

    Maybe in 100 years people will be killing each other over James Bond just like they have for the last several thousand years over who has the best sky daddy.
     
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  22. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Open debate can be hard on religious people, I get that. Their religious movements have spent millenia crushing debate everywhere they go because they know it's not a subject that stands scrutiny.
     
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  23. Xileh
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    The Bible made me submissive

    I do think an important point may have been missed in this discussion.

    Per your title, I don’t think the Bible can make you submissive. I think is is more likely you are pre-disposed to being submissive.

    I am likely to be wrong, but most of my reading on the topic seems to indicate that submissiveness tends to be hard-wired from the start. Over time, acceptance of one’s submissiveness may or may not be realized, and or accepted.
     
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  24. Proud to be chaste
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    Proud to be chaste Active member

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    That's an excellent point. I am very open to that possibility.

    My experience is that a few bible passages inspired my submissive tendencies in formative years. (That happened prior to any familiarity with chastity or a submissive lifestyle.) But still - if I was predesposed for submissiveness (nature, rather than nurture), I would find resonnance with that disposition in the texts I read on sexuality (which happened to be the bible). The discovery of my submissive tendencies would have happened sooner or later anyways. Then I constructed the story about how I became sumbissive based on the impulses that I experienced as decisive (the bible), when reality I was submissive all along. The self-discovery would have happened sooner or later. Could that be another way of putting your argument?

    This is what criticism looks like. I love that!
     
  25. antos
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    HAHA.... Chastity is deviant or antisocial behaviour? :D

    Stupidity is truly infinite. I hope not all atheists are like you. :D
     
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