Why do we want male chastity to be normalised...

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Giles_English, Aug 24, 2021.

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  1. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    #51 HusbandX, Aug 27, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
    Sorry. I didn't realize you were an intellectual. Given your descent into the childish, you can safely be dismissed as unworthy of any further discourse, and are now placed on the ignore list. Enough of your drivel.

    The statement, "as far as I know," is a disclaimer stipulating that one does not know the limit of what one does, or does not know; it is a circular statement that one does not know. One thinks one knows. One supposes. One guesses. But one does not know if one knows. It is a statement of ignorance. Otherwise, one could simply say, "I know." By admitting one does not know the extent of one's own ignorance, one has made the circular admission of...ignorance. If one does not know that this is what one is saying, that would be ignorant of ones own words, which is also an admission of ignorance. Again, think it through.

    You don't know where I live, either. It is irrelevant.

    Trump is merely the chief clown. One might say "Putonian," or "Bolsonaroan," or even "Jonsonian." Same horse, different jockey.

    I do, because those were my words. I do remember my own words, yes. Ought I not?

    I also remember them because they're memorialized in this thread, in black and white. I responded to you, having quoted you stating that being outed as a chastity enthusiast "often" has "lots" of negative consequences.

    You cited five, without any support; imaginary what-if situations. Yet you told us that this occurs often, and there are "lots." You didn't offer "lots," and didn't support "often." You've yet to do so. You've also yet to offer anything substantive to support your claim, other than a partial quote of an online dictionary definition taken out of consequences. Where are these "often" cases, and where are the "lots?"

    Your arguments thus far lack logic.

    I have made no pretense, so again you have lied. I quoted you. Don't post if you don't want to be quoted.

    You've clarified your previously inaccurate statement now, to assert that it wasn't really former religious friends, but current friends driven away when they learn of your chastity. So you've outed yourself in this scenario, driving away your religious friends. Not really much of a friend, to be driven away by something as trivial as a chastity device, and certainly not much of an authentic religion. Presumably you're not talking Christianity, where forgiveness and acceptance are among the bedrock of christian followership. At least among those who don't simply pretend or "believe" for show. So, paper-thin pretentious judgmental former associates who despise you for your beliefs...and their loss is to be considered negative in some way?

    A liberal area? I suppose that depends upon what you mean by liberal. I spent most of my time in locations like Iraq, Bahrain, China, Russia, Mali, Nigeria, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Colombia, Afghanistan (yes, that Afghanistan), Qatar, yada, yada, yada, so liberal may be a sliding scale. But I'll try to remember that you educated me on remembering that there are people on this planet who aren't liberal. I'm in Europe a lot. Perhaps that counts.

    First, congratulations on your ability to count. Second, I've never personally seen an account of someone whose relationship failed given an interest in chastity, but apparently this occurs "often" and is known to you, though you certainly have been reluctant to share those accounts or numbers. Third, I've no interest in how picky women are, but can say with certainty that if a relationship fails because of an interest in chastity, it's not much of a relationship, and it had a lot more working against it than an interest in chastity. A relationship that is felled due to an interest in chastity is weak and unstable and the interest in chastity is the least of its problem(s).

    You enjoy throwing out these unsupported statistics; again, trumpian. Throw it up, see what sticks. Four out of five, you say? You wouldn't happen to have a citation for that, would you? Are you speaking based on fact, or simply blowing smoke out your ass again?

    It's very possible that women wouldn't want to date a man who has locked himself up or who has taken a vow of chastity. Opposite sexes do date, on occasion, because of not only an attraction to money, clothing, cars, lifestyle, but also sex. A woman who knows that a man has chosen to never have sex again, but who wants sex herself, may not see that as a plus in a relationship. But that's her choice.

    When you elect to engage in chastity such that you aren't going to have sex, or have sexual release, and you've caged your genitalia, and you're seeking a partner, of course she will have to be willing to accept not only the impact of the choice in your life, but how it may impact her life, and how it may impact your relationship.

    When I married my current spouse, she knew what I did for a living. She knew the amount of time it put me in the field, and that the job carried considerable risk. it took me away for extended periods, to unsafe locations to live among people who did not act in my best interest. This wasn't just about me; it impacted her. She had to make choices about whether she wanted that in her life, as any partner must do in any relationship. We are still together.

    When I embarked on experimentation with chastity, and many other tangent concepts, it was some time before i discussed them with my wife, and she wasn't particularly receptive at first. We've evolved over time, and we've had many discussions. There are still lines in the sand, some have been re-drawn, some erased. That's what a relationship is. If my wife absolutely refused to accept it, I'd have to make a decision, but it's still a two way street. That's a relationship. Chastity isn't the negative. How it's approached, and how it's dealt with, and the priority its given, is. Frankly, if the intent is to surrender one's sexuality to ones partner, or to give it up, or restrict it, then what she thinks is quite important, and should she declare it off the table or determine that it won't be found in this house, then it would be disingenuous to fail to honor her wishes...after all, if it was truly about deferring to her in the first place. Otherwise, it would be the cliche "topping from the bottom."

    I've lived in those small towns. I've lived in those countries. I still do.

    Getting outed can't be bad? Of course it can. I spent considerable time in places where people are stoned or killed, REGULARLY, for failure to abide local traditions, beliefs, or cultural norms. I've been present for some of those occasions, including beheadings. Have you?

    When one undertakes an activity, one must determine the opportunity cost. I frequent places where my computer is subject to detailed search for pornography, key words, religious statements or documents, artifacts, political anything...and where the penalties are significant. I frequent places where people quite literally disappear for any number of reasons, and where sexual intolerance and religious fundamentalism is very real. I could tell you personal stories for days or weeks about my own experiences, events I've experienced personally, for a long, long time, and continue to experience on a daily basis...but you aren't living in such places, are you? You're not really talking about how Abu Sayef or the Taliban or ISIL handles an open chastity lifestyle, are you? Would you know? Have you had personal contact? You're talking about western societies, liberal ones, as you put it, and the dangers of nagging women in the work place, or pious church buddies giving you the cold shoulder. That sounds really tough. You're quoting figures, such as eighty percent of women...but without substantiation, and of course, "often," and "lots."

    Let's not be trumpian. You were called out, you didn't support it and still don't, so enough of the "lots" and "often." Get real, or get out of dodge. Your claims. Back them.
     
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    "As for the rest of your post, you certainly are an insufferable cunt, aren't you?"

    Most of us were thinking it. I would add: "who loves the sound of his own voice". Don't worry @tecolote you'll be on his blocked list by breakfast time like everyone else (including me, like I care!) that dares to disagree with @HusbandX it wouldn't surprise me if he's blocked Lucy for calling him out too.
     
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    @HusbandX "where forgiveness and acceptance are among the bedrock of christian followership. At least among those who don't simply pretend or "believe" for show".

    Then forgive us all you twat, and unblock the myriads of members who also don't give a fuck that you blocked them.
     
  4. sandman9355
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    You might want to look up the concept of epistemological skepticism, and read about the butterfly dream, or watch Matrix if you want a more mainstream version. Claiming "I know" and not being willing to admit that knowledge always has a degree of uncertainty... That is a sign of ignorance, or deceit.

    Sure, I don't know where you live. However, what I wrote never assumed where you live and is independent of any country's politics. Besides, I thought that US chief clown's name is Joe Biden for some time now...

    And I'm not going to bother with replying to the rest of your post. You've never cited or linked your own sources, you've admitted at least some of your reasoning is based on *you* not knowing about certain cases, and with you being a user here for a year and a bit and me being here for more than a dozen, I'd guess it is quite likely I've gained a bit more experience than you have. So either start talking like a civil and sensible person, and follow your own rules, or feel free to get ignored.
     
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  5. sandman9355
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    If I gave the impression that wearing a chastity device has to be a sign of weakness, I must have made an error when putting my thoughts to electrons. As someone who owns a safe full of guns, two spears and a mix of other old-school weaponry, chain mail and class IV body armor, I'm not just a gentle flower myself :)
     
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    Not sure you did. I was just rolling with my thoughts
     
  7. L-u-c-y
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    I think we might have to go back to the old rules, talking about politics was banned on this site. It never ends well.

    Except when I do it : )
     
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  8. HusbandX
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    My point exactly, and yet, your assertion and the disclaimer thereof is by its very plain english rendering, and definition, a statement of ignorance.

    The burden of proof is yours. It is your unfounded assertions, based on your flight of fancy, upon which this discussion is based. Again, you continue to throw everything up and see what sticks.

    Guesswork, assumption, and professed ignorance does appear to be your hallmark.

    Discourse with you is somewhat like teaching a pig to sing. I'm sure you understand the reference.

    I will do you one better. You're on the ignore list. Between your lies, your guesswork, your profession of ignorance, your non-sequitur fallacies, and your refusal and inability to support your own assertions, to say nothing of your speculation, guesswork, and supposition, you're hardly worth any more time.
     
  9. tecolote
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    tecolote Long term member

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  10. sandman9355
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    Sorry, I'm kind of tired of the TDS, he's out of the office for months by now and I don't live in the US to begin with, so I wanted to send at least one barb back.

    I'll try to remember to steer clear again.
     
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    Pot/kettle!
    Glasshouses!
     
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    So are we apemen or made in God's image? Make your mind up.
     
  13. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    So, one data point is that - if you google - only about 25% of women get off PIV... and it's about that percentage of lesbian couples who use strap-ons. (Stats and sources here.) There's also a small percentage of women who actively dislike penetration, e.g. due to vaginismus. So it's not entirely fappish to imagine that our fetish might cross over into being an intriguing solution for a small proportion of women.
     
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  14. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    There are two kinds of people I can't stand: Those that are intolerant of other people. And the dutch.

     
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    Well, this thread turned pretty toxic.
     
  16. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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    For me, why I find it fun to think of chastity going more mainstream…pride and reassurance.

    I feel a certain amount of pride that I am willing and able, to give up control of all of my sexuality and basic physical male abilities.

    Reassurance that I’m not alone. I’m part of a growing group that I’m not the only male into this, willing and actively desire to lose that control of self. Yes there are people here, but the world is a big place, and the amount of people here is a drop in the bucket. If I hear about something mainstream, it means the idea has at least spread to a much greater bucket than the one niche place that I already know they know.

    Ive seen one key besides my wife’s, yes I recognized the style of key as a magic locker. One key since I started looking in 2009. Thousands of people and I’ve seen one key. Granted, not everyone wears the key, but seeing a fellow traveler, or knowing there are many travelers on my path, makes me feel good.
     
  17. Nicoftime
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    Nicoftime The suspense is terrible...I hope it lasts

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    One of the reasons I looked into chastity is I was googling sexless marriage. My wife at the time did not like penetration. It hurt her, she hated it, and I wouldn’t even want to try knowing she didn’t like it. I’m not big by any means, it just hurt her. I was searching on alternatives and solutions and found chastity. I didn’t bring it up to her because I knew she wouldn’t like that either, but the bug was planted. The marriage broke down, but decided to ask my next relationship and wife to be, if she would explore that with me. So yes, many women find this a great alternative. Oddly enough my wife now loves and gets off mainly with penetration, go figure lol
     
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  18. HusbandX
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    I can imagine that a lot of women would jump at the chance to control how and when a male has his way, or whether he has it at all. My wife admits, as do I, that I'm a better husband when I'm locked up, and when I'm denied. She's of the mind that she shouldn't have to do anything in order for me to do and be what I'm supposed to be, and I agree, but we're both aware that when I'm allowed to have a release, my drive to please, my focus on her, my tendency to listen, to not talk back, to be attentive, etc, all takes a nosedive. Not a paradigm shift, but palpable, notable. Observable.

    At it's core, putting a cage one one's genitalia won't make one a better person, but my wife doesn't benefit by allowing me to cum; she does benefit by not allowing me, which is perhaps why our trajectory over time has been toward less opportunity.

    My wife doesn't like the idea of a cage; she was opposed to it initially and felt it was dangerous, or would cause a lot of discomfort or pain, or damage, and she was concerned about hygiene (and any implications that might have for sex). I wore the cage on my own, and she's come to accept it more. One could say it's become more "mainstream" in the home. Kind of ho-hum...not thrilling to either of us, but just more familiar, and I think in the process she's had some time to consider benefits it may have.

    My wife doesn't dislike penetration, perhaps more of a take it or leave it. It wouldn't bother her much to just leave it. For us, the upside of wearing a device and practicing all that comes with it, are slightly greater than any disadvantage. The only disadvantage, is to me.

    Seems fair.
     
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    Chastity seems so normal to me that non chaste sexual relationships are what seem a little weird, a little unnatural. Chastity seems a natural counterbalance to the physical advantages that males enjoy. It is very easy for me to imagine a culture in which, when males turn sixteen (or whatever), it would just be generally assumed that they would start experimenting with belts and cages until they found a good fit. Then, when they found a partner, the males would don the cage or belt and hand over the key. That would be a core ceremony, like getting engaged. Chastity would be the very definition of “respectable” sex. Sex education would be largely about chastity. Couples having sex without chastity would be doing something a bit over the line, a bit kinky, perhaps a bit lower-class.
     
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  20. sandman9355
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    #70 sandman9355, Aug 29, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
    I'm afraid that it is easy for you to imagine such a culture because such a culture would follow your own wishes, but the mainstream culture is composed of people who aren't wired that way and whose natural tendencies go against such concepts. Most men in civilized societies *don't* use their physical advantages to force women into sex and would be justifiably insulted by the notion they should be locked to make women safer. Men in uncivilized societies would just laugh. Most women don't want weak or submissive men, or men in chastity, just take a look at data regarding female sexual fantasies. Any efforts towards convincing the majority to go against their own wants, their own nature, and embrace chastity play seem like a waste of energy to me.

    What I think can help is efforts towards making mainstream a bit more live-and-let-live, a bit less judgemental.
     
  21. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    It might be useful to repost my roadmap here:

    Fetish Phase

    1. "Obscure": Nobody has heard of it - where we were in 1980.
    2. "Boutique": Specialist makers will sell you a device - where we were in 1990.
    3. "Dungeon": A known option in the BDSM Scene.

    Sex Toy Phase

    4. "Discoverable": Mainstream online sex toy retailers stock them. Appears in mainstream media as item or interest, or fictional device. Stocked by in-store by sex toy chains.
    5. "Furry Handcuffs": Mainstream people know what they are. Having one is a "naughty secret", and a sign of an adventurous sex life. Edgy pop stars might pose with one.
    6. "Vibrator": Private, of prurient interest, but not remarkable. If your lover has one and wants to use it in bed, it's not shocking.

    Normalisation Phase

    7. "Intimate Piercings": A private but not shocking part of somebody's sexual identity, something you might discover during the early stages of intimacy without feeling it's a bait and switch. Requires chastity to go viral, perhaps through featuring in a mainstream TV show. The main threat to this is people doing stupid irresponsible stuff, or being exhibitionists.
    8. "Queer": If not recognised as Queer, certainly queer-adjacent. Some people are chaste or semi-chaste or whatever. There are issues with prejudice, so chastes may still prefer to fly under the radar. However, we are officially tolerated in most developed countries, e.g. we get through security checks with no issues, and being "caught" wearing one at work isn't an issue. We can get to this stage: when BDSM does; or if chastity devices become part of a gender expression; or if some women start insisting on them as part of courtship; or if they become common in the gay community, and that bleeds over into the straight one.
    9."Utopia": Chaste folk are open about it, and that's just a dating option. Only remotely possible in the context of full LGBT+ liberation.

    The last stage doesn't say anything about uptake. Though I think a chastity device will be a common sex toy - say 20% of couples owning one - I doubt serious use will ever get higher than 2%.
     
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  22. Robins toy
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    Wonderfully said
     
  23. Giles_English
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    Giles_English Chaste slave

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    Actually, there's at least some evidence that 20% of women are very happy indeed with a less dominant partner. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17187017/

    Results: Dominant partner was chosen by 13.8% men and 20.5% women, and submissive partner by 36.6% men and 19.8% women. Homosexual partners were chosen by 7.3% men and 12.2% women. The response times for the submissive and dominant stimuli did not differ while for the equal-status stimuli were significantly longer, suggesting that part of subjects with equal-status preferences probably intentionally mask their natural interests.​

    I think the point is that we are and always will be a minority orientation, but that as the lights go up, we will find that we are a significant minority.
     
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  24. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    I'm curious why you feel that the practice of chastity is "queer," or that it's an "orientation."

    It's simply the decision not to have sex, or to limit it in some way. Not exactly earth shattering.

    Is chastity to be entered into some new direction, some sense of identity? Are we hoping for "chastity parades," where in stead of gay lunatics leaping off floats in crocheted underwear, wearing gossamer butterfly wings and bunny slippers, men will streak down crowded streets wearing nothing but a cock cage, flip flops, and a toilet paper streamer in each fist, to the sounds of "Can't get no Satisfaction?"
     
  25. sandman9355
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    On one hand, such numbers might provide a bit more optimism for the single folks here. On the other hand, though, those numbers are a proof of why male chastity is likely to remain a minority interest even years into the future.

    On another note, I have to join HusbandX here in regards to those 'Queer' ideas. I can see why you're talking about it, given all the chaste sissies on the internet, but I see that as just one part of a bigger fanbase, so to speak. And I'm someone who's had "gender: other" in their profile here for more than a decade, so it's not like I'm some masculine guy trying to attack the queer folk. Would we really want to go through a phase where chastity is perceived a queer issue, instead of being its own thing?
     
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