Covid-19 and Life

Discussion in 'Off topic discussions' started by Hubby&Missy, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. tomf_22033
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    tomf_22033 Long term member

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    WTF

    Why am I not surprised?
    And why does reading what you posted make me wonder who got bought off and worse.
     
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  2. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    This is astonishing! And this only makes sense when you accept that our health and well-being are NOT the government's primary concern. (and that is a charitable statement) I feel their motives are much worse.

    As an aside, on Tuesday I have an appointment with a doctor who takes the cautionary approach to the shots. (They have been tough to find.) My goal with him is to establish a sound medical reason for him to forbid me to take the jabs. I think I am gonna go with the reproductive route. (Ironic for a chaste male) NO ONE can claim that the health of offspring of "vaccinated" parents will be healthy. There's simply not enough elapsed time to determine that.

    The doctor is also Catholic, so I will also approach the topic with my belief that the shots are tantamount to birth control......I wish to establish shots are a no-no for me due to medical AND religious reasons.

    Of course, I am NOT seeking his permission to avoid the shots, I am seeking his demonstrable confirmation of his recommendations in case an employer or airline wants it.

    MY decision has long since been made.
     
  3. tiemeupalso
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    tiemeupalso Long term member

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    i am not puting anything in my body the government is so demanding that everybody be given a shot.
    i dont trust them to care one way or another if i get diagnosed or not.
    so what is theirr alterrior motive other than test to see how much control over the population the people will put up with before we finally fight back and take our power back and give it to the people
     
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  4. L-u-c-y
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    They had tests groups and they gave half vaccines and half placebo's, they tested them for a couple of months and then gave the vaccine to the placebo group!

    The people who refuse vaccines are now the test group.

    They have made it clear they don't want a test group.
     
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  5. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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  6. tiemeupalso
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    tiemeupalso Long term member

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    i think it was carl marx who said,keep the public scared and they will be easier to control and will always come to the government for help.(paraphrasing)
     
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  7. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    Among others. Yes.
     
  8. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    I spend most of my time internationally, and for those that think it's some kind of domestic conspiracy (add your favorite political bullshit), you've no goddamn idea what you're talking about. I can tell you I've seen it first hand, on every continent except antarctica, and it is there, too. I've seen the lockdowns, the deaths, the funeral pyres, the economic toll, and the response not just in the US, but globally, and it's far from a pfizer or bill gates conspiracy.

    For those of you stupid enough to have bought into the Q, or whatever your favorite conspiracy peddler is today, wise up. No doubt one can float any number of citations, most of them gleaned from conservative sites that peddle conspiracy shit, and chances are that whatever you're reading is bullshit.

    I've seen it live, in the middle east, where it's an exploding problem, in India, in Africa, in Europe, in Russia, in China, Korea, all over South America, various points in the Pacific, and it's not conspiracy, it's not made up or "fake news," and the deaths, hospitalizations, long term and short term effects, and demand on the system, is very real. I've had numerous co-workers come down with it, and family come down with it, some of whom nearly died, and were not old.

    You may play to any conspiracy excuse you care to use to justify failing to get the vaccine, and you may be an apologist for any number of conspiracy theories, but at the end of the day, those who fail to become vaccinated are still the majority of cases of hospitalization, use of mechanical ventilation, and deaths, and every single one of them who refused did little more than invite their own demise...which makes them a goddamn idiot. Moreover, those who do end up in the hospital, on a ventilator, and who are dying, particularly from the more recent increase in the Delta variant, are oft heard to opine that they wish they'd been vaccinated, and their families certainly wish the same. I've yet to hear one dying who said, "I'm thrilled that I stood up to the vaccine and refused to take it, and proud to be a martyr for the anti-vax cause."

    Funny, that. Not a soul. Odd.
     
  9. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Misinformtation is everywhere.

    Bill gates didn't invent RFID and that patent has nothing to do with RFID.
     
  10. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    No experimental drugs for me thank you. I have seen I Am Legend :)

    Death is a natural side effect of life. Why try to avoid it!

    No need to increase my risk by having a vaccine that isn't even a vaccine.

    Sars-cov-2 and the resulting covid-19 are like the giant wildfires we see in the states - just burning the dry tinder. We get a lot of old people dying when we try to keep people alive for longer. More of them dying when something like this comes along is natural.

    The whole thing has been about power and money.

    At least now everyone should be clear on the idea that money is nonsense, it can be printed any time, and that "debt" is also nonsense since planet earth doesn't have a creditor.

    I was hoping that we'd see a beneficial shuffle during the last 20 months or so, but sadly we just made more billionaire tax dodgers.
     
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  11. L-u-c-y
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    Everyone knows and accepts that oil companies and regulators are corrupt, the banks are corrupt, FIFA is corrupt, weapons companies and government procurement is corrupt, the media is corrupt, car companies are corrupt, but no one wants to consider that the health industry and regulators are corrupt.

    One of the biggest profit makes in the world, but they can't be corrupt.

    It would be strange if they were not.

    The vaccine companies, the testing companies, and anyone who is making money out of this does not want this to end. Call it a conspiracy or call it "just business", that's the way it is.
     
  12. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Healthcare doesn't create cures. Cures are bad for business, shareholders don't want cancer cured and neither do cancer related charities. (Don't get me started on charities!)

    It's the same for therapy and the church. If you leave cured then you are not part of their profit structure. No, you need to leave with 10 more problems than when you arrived.

    We already know healthcare is corrupt. In fact it's difficult to see the difference between healthcare and tobacco or oil companies nowadays. Same faces, same tactics, same politicians in the pocket.

    The UK has seen the privitisation of the NHS by stealth. Trusts are just private companies in disguise, full of middle management siphoning funds from the government, with the governments blessing, one hand in the pocket of the other.

    It's disgusting and shameful. All of it.

    The battle cry of "Growth!" has never seen the math of it. It's untenable. Growth means death.
     
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  13. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    "Everyone knows" is trumpian. Much like "many people say," and "everyone thinks." Generalities. Throw it up, see what sticks.

    No, not every company, corporate entity, etc, is corrupt. Not remotely so.

    It's not "just business," and yes, if you really believe every company is corrupt, then you're stuck in a conspiracy loop.

    The mere assumption that everything is corrupt is problematic, and a fallacy.

    Citing fines levied thirty years ago does not mean that the company is corrupt, the same people are involved, the same matter is at play, or that one proves the other. Correlation does not equal causation, and when the correlation is so thin as to say they're all corrupt and "everyone knows," it's beyond reasonable or logic and well into conspiracy territory.
     
  14. L-u-c-y
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    Let's wait and see how many massive covid related corruption stories are unearthed in the next few years.

     
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  15. natalie_stockings
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    natalie_stockings feminine transvestite

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    I note you say that "the fact they (the media) make up 99 percent of the stories with very little facts." That sounds like a made-up "fact"! Where did this "fact" come from?
     
  16. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    Trumpian. "Fake news." When one has no argument to make, be dismissive.

    Trumpian, of course, means "liar," and "clown."
     
  17. L-u-c-y
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    That is what you are accusing other people of.
     
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  18. L-u-c-y
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    I saw this post the other day about vaccine hesitancy, it mentions how the media manipulates the news.

    You’re struggling to understand why some people are vaccine hesitant. Let me help you...

    Imagine you are an average person. The year is 2016. Rightly or wrongly, you believe most of what you see in the media.

    You believe polls are broadly reflective of public opinion. You believe doctors and scientists are trustworthy and independent. You’re a decent, reasonable person who follows the rules and trusts authority.

    Imagine your shock then, when Brexit, which you were assured won’t happen because it’s a fringe movement led by racists for racists, happens. The polls, which widely predicted it wouldn’t happen were completely wrong.


    The experts and media pundits who told you it wouldn’t happen day after day are also wrong. “Oh well” you say, “these things happen”.

    Imagine that soon after this Donald Trump is running for President. You are told by your favourite media publications that he is going to lose.

    Some experts say his opponent has a 99% chance of winning.

    https://independent.co.uk/news/worl...ry-clinton-donald-trump-victory-a7399671.html

    Imagine waking up on the morning after the election to discover that pollsters, media experts and politicians you still trusted were wrong again.

    And now, the racist monster they told you would never get near the White House is the leader of the free world.

    “How did this happen?” you ask yourself? How could all the people in charge of informing me be so wrong? “It was the Russians,” they tell you.

    “The Russians did Brexit and they got Trump elected too”.

    Imagine that for the next 3.5 years you watch as the media and the political class run with the Russia collusion narrative. They tell you the how, when and where.

    The dossiers, the whistle-blowers, the peeing prostitutes.
    Imagine your desperation for things to make sense again. The Muller Report is coming and it will set your world straight.


    Evidence of foreign meddling in the 2016 election and Brexit is coming to save your unsettled mind.
    Imagine your shock then, when you discover that Brexit and Trump had little to do with foreign meddling. The screaming about Russians and Brexit dies down as well.


    Imagine that bit by bit, you discover that events which the media and political class told you would not and could not happen not only happened, but happened without some sort of evil interference. Instead, millions of your fellow citizens voted for them.


    Again, you ask “How could this happen?” and again the media has the answer: racism. “Your country is racist”, they tell you. If you’re white, this seems strange to you. Other than a handful of idiots, you’ve never met a racist.


    If you’re an ethnic minority immigrant like me, this seems even stranger. Why would people in one of the most welcoming, tolerant countries in the world want to convince themselves their country is racist when it’s so obviously not?


    But the evidence is right there on your TV screen. Imagine your horror as a gay black actor is assaulted by MAGA hat-wearing thugs who racially abuse him and put a noose around his neck. He cries while talking about it:





    Imagine your outrage as you see news reports of a bunch of MAGA hat-wearing kids from a religious school contemptuously confront a native America elder. Reza Aslan tells you the kid has a “punchable face” and while you abhor violence, it’s hard to disagree.


    Imagine that for days you watch coverage of these events, with expert after expert, pundit after pundit, sharing and fuelling your outrage about them. With every word, your belief that you are a good person and that your country is a good country wavers.


    Imagine that soon after, however, the Jussie Smollett story turns out to be an attention-seeking hoax. Imagine that you quickly discover that the native American elder was the one who confronted the kids and not the other way around.


    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/13/reza-aslan-likely-be-sued-over-now-deleted-punchab/


    “If this is such a racist country,” you ask yourself… “why would they need to make up stories of racism?” As you ponder this, you remember that for years now, you’ve been expected to go along with other make-believe.


    You’re expected to believe that whether you’re male or female is not as simple as you once thought. Whatever you learned about biology at school is wrong. You no longer know how many genders there are and it seems dangerous to try to find out.


    Imagine reading that the experts at the American Psychological Association say that traditional masculinity is “pathological and harmful”.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...ty-american-psychological-association/580006/


    Imagine that you still want to believe the media and their experts, but now that requires you to think your country is racist, men are bad and gender is a social construct, whatever that means.


    It is at this point that a pandemic emerges on the other side of the world.


    You are initially unconcerned, but as scenes emerge from Italy and other countries, it is clear that something big is happening.


    You watch nervously as politicians give press conference after press conference, flanked by experts, to explain the situation.


    The racist Donald Trump shuts down travel from China. In response, the mayor of Florence advises citizens to fight racism by “hugging a Chinese person”.


    https://in.news.yahoo.com/italy-lau...n-065339340.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma


    Shortly after, Nancy Pelosi, a respected Democrat visits Chinatown in San Francisco to explain “there's no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.”


    https://nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/]


    “Thank God there are some sensible non-racist people who aren’t overreacting,” you say to yourself.


    Imagine watching as Trump doubles down on his racism by claiming the virus may have come from a lab in Wuhan.

    “Nonsense,” you think to yourself as you wonder how best to protect yourself and your family from this deadly disease.

    You consider getting masks – you’ve seen visitors from Asian countries wear them.


    But the UK’s Chief Medical Officer tells you not to wear a mask and wash your hands instead.


    https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/h...or-chris-whitty-no-masks-advice-a9374086.html

    As lockdowns are introduced around the world, you diligently follow all the rules. You stay at home, only go out once and live off savings or government grants.

    You are proud to be doing your part.
    Thanks to you and millions of your fellow citizens the first wave of the pandemic does not overwhelm the healthcare system. While thousands sadly die, you’ve helped to protect the NHS.


    Imagine your confusion as the same people who have spent 3 months telling you masks don’t work and you shouldn’t wear them introduce mask mandates. We’re “following the science” they tell you. This makes little sense but a pandemic is no time for questions.


    As you cautiously go to the supermarket, you notice that masks have made people far less likely to socially distance.


    You remember reading somewhere that bicycle helmets work similarly: they give the wearer more confidence and the result is more accidents and injuries, not fewer.
    “Silly people,” you say to yourself. “If only they would follow government advice”.


    You turn on your TV to learn that shoppers at your local supermarket aren’t the only ones who have been ignoring the rules.


    Neil Ferguson, the man whose projections were used as the basis for lockdowns, appears to have broken his own rules to get some action with his married lover.


    Boris Johnson’s chief advisor, Dominic Cummings, drove half way across the country to ensure he had a better place to isolate. The journalists who berate him for this are later found to have attended a birthday party in breach of the rules.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...-sky-news-over-60th-birthday-bash/ar-BB1bLEZd


    The lockdown continues. However, a man is killed in Minneapolis while being arrested for a petty crime. The man is black. The officer is white. The arrest is captured on video and quickly goes viral around the world.


    Imagine your horror as you watch an officer of the law kneel on another man’s neck until he passes out and later dies. “This is disgusting,” you say to yourself. “I hope they throw the book at him”. Overnight, a huge campaign for racial justice springs up around the world.


    No one explains what racism had to do with the incident but they don’t need to. As you know by now, the West is racist and therefore any time a white person does anything bad to a black person, there can only be one explanation.


    The fact that an identical incident happened to a white man called Tony Timpa is never mentioned for context.





    While the lockdown rules remain in place, the protests against injustice spill out onto the streets. Tens of thousands of people crowd into major cities.


    Few wear masks and social distancing is non-existent.
    Clashes with police ensue, and in America protestors loot stores, attack residents and start fires. A retired black police officer called David Dorn is among dozens of people who are murdered in the chaos.


    The media describe these events as “mostly peaceful protests” as their reporters stand in front of burning buildings. After months of harsh restrictions, the media and political class offer no criticism of protests which violate every element of lockdown.


    After months of telling you to stay at home to avoid spreading COVID, doctors explain that rather than being a mass COVID spreading event, “protest is a profound public health intervention”


    Time Magazine: Why So Many Doctors Support Protesting In a Pandemic Even though it could spread COVID-19:


    https://time.com/5848212/doctors-supporting-protests/]


    Big Tech companies go into overdrive to stop the spread of disinformation. All discussions of alternative points of view regarding the efficacy of masks and lockdowns, as well as the origins of the virus are censored.


    Attempts to discuss the negative impact of lockdown on health and mental well-being are suppressed.


    As the year runs on, with a pivotal American election looming, President Trump promises a huge push to develop a vaccine.


    Kamala Harris, who is later elected Vice President, says that she would not take the vaccine if Trump told her to.


    https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1314019361859014656]


    On the eve of the election, a publication in America releases a damaging report about Hunter Biden, son of presidential candidate Joe Biden. The story alleges corruption which may involve his father, as well as drug taking, use of prostitutes and more.


    Twitter and other social media companies prevent the story from being shared. The media lines up commentators to claim the story was “Russian disinformation”.


    Once his father wins the election, it becomes clear that several key elements of the story are likely accurate and the laptop from which the information was recovered is in fact Hunter Biden’s laptop.


    Meanwhile, the numbers of COVID patients and deaths turn out to have been wrong. For some time, anyone who died at any point after a positive COVID test was counted as dying of COVID, even if they were killed by a drunk driver.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711


    This figure is later revised again. The number of people who are in hospital because of COVID also turns out to be incorrect.
    Hospital figures for Covid cases ‘misleading’.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/29/hospital-figures-covid-cases-misleading/


    Now that racist Donald Trump is no longer President, closing borders is no longer considered xenophobic and is widely advocated for in the media.


    The racist conspiracy theory that the virus came from a lab is now also allowed to be discussed and appears likely to be the most credible explanation of the origins of the virus.


    Imagine your horror as you learn that the reason thousands of people died in the first wave of the pandemic was that elderly patients with COVID were allowed to be released back into care homes.


    This is especially true in the UK and in New York, run by Governor Andrew Cuomo, brother of CNN anchor Chris Cuomo.
    Governor Cuomo’s publisher suspends promotion of his book about leadership during the pandemic amid the enquiry into nursing home deaths.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/nyregion/cuomo-book.html]


    Meanwhile, Texas and Florida which remained open continue to thrive.


    https://nytimes.com/2021/03/08/nyregion/cuomo-book.html


    In the UK, the Health Secretary, the person responsible for saving lives, is found to be cheating on his wife with a married aide in breach of social distancing rules.


    The man making the rules for you does not follow them.
    It is at this point that the vaccine, which you were initially told would need to be given to the vulnerable before restrictions are lifted, becomes the main drive of Government policy and media commentary.


    The same people who told you Brexit would never happen, Trump would never win, that when he did win it was because of Russian collusion, then because of racism, that you must follow lockdowns while they don’t, that masks don’t work and then that they do work, that protests…

    …during lockdowns are a “health intervention”, that ransacking black communities in the name of fighting racism are “mostly peaceful”, that Jussie Smollett was a victim of a hate crime, that men are toxic, that there is an infinite number of genders, that COVID didn’t come…

    …from a lab and then that it probably did, that closing borders is racist and then that it’s the most important thing to do, that the Hunter Biden story is Russian disinformation and then that it’s not, that they would not take Trump’s vaccine and then that you must take the…

    …vaccine, that Governor Cuomo is a great COVID leader and then that he is a granny killer, that the number of COVID deaths is one thing and then another, that hospitals are filled with COVID patients and then that many of them caught COVID in hospital…


    These same people are now telling you the vaccine is safe, you must take it and if you don’t you will be a second class citizen. Understand vaccine hesitancy now?


    Original source: https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1422181589925122054
     
  19. Suewiang
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    Suewiang Long term member

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    I Could not agree with your post more. Lucy
     
  20. maid_carrie
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    Every business in the world has the potential for being corrupt and lacking morals and that includes drug companies.

    Pfizer has just been fined in the U.K. for manipulating drug prices but that doesn’t mean the scientists will fudge their research results, necessarily.

    One man’s “marketing strategy” can be another man’s idea of corruption. Sometimes it’s an accountant backing the first one and a conspiracy theorist the latter, but not always.

    The NHS and other bodies don’t just accept what the drug companies say about their drugs. They take a long time checking the figures and assessing the research results. They don’t take these things on face value as suggested.

    As with all of this, there’s too much half stories told to show how bad things are and how we are all being taken in.

    What intrigues me are all those anti vaxxers who have miraculously gone through their lives so far and not caught diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, Hib, polio and hepatitis B infections.

    Well done them! Or was it the vaccinations they had as children? Surely not!

    All of these diseases can have terrible impacts on peoples lives.

    As with all vaccinations there are risks - and these vaccines are given to babies - shock horror!

    Fewer than 1/100,000 can have anaphylactic shock
    Fewer than 1/10,000 can have fits or seizures
    Up to 1/10 can have pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, fever (high temperature above 38C) – more common at the second and third dose, vomiting, abnormal crying, irritability , loss of appetite.

    Yet 90%+ parents subject their children to this! What sort of animals are they??? LOL

    There’s now great discussion in the U.K. about 16 yo having the vaccine and, sage people they are, we hear them saying I need to do more research into it. You mean check Facebook, Twitter or heavens knows what source of academic information?

    Just my thoughts:)
     
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  21. Suewiang
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    Suewiang Long term member

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    Corruption is rife throughout the world with those in governments been some of the worst criminals.
    The poorer the country the more blatant obvious the corruption is as they seem to have less reasons to bother to hide it.
    The richer the country the more hidden it gets but of course the bigger the amounts involved are.

    Whether you agree or disagree on vaccines it should still always be the individual persons choice and to try and stop people discussing whether they are good or bad should never be since we all are entitled to our opinions and to make our own decisions.

    The U.K. governments decisions over the virus often seem to have been very orientated around personal gain.

    I still find unbelievable many of the decisions and of course they never answer the questions asked of them.
    For sure a day in the distant future will reveal much of the corruption that’s gone on but we can almost guarantee it will be too late for any criminal proceedings to take place.

    To me it seems the media are hugely responsible for the hype and scare tactics that caused so much of the crazy decisions all over a virus that’s killed 130,000 people yet for sure the restrictions that have been implemented since it began has killed far far more from not been able to get treated to not been diagnosed for many other illnesses that will leave a far far bigger legacy that goes into the millions that will die or already have died.
     
  22. maid_carrie
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    There’s a sweeping statement if ever I saw one!

    You’re right of course.

    The government (on behalf of future generations) picking up 80% of the pay for millions of people was just so stupid. And lined the pockets of ….. hmm - those unable to work?

    Aha - yes, they were telling companies to shut down and furlough people just so their personal

    investment portfolio would grow rapidly? Nope, the stock market took a dive in the U.K. that is only now recovering.

    In a perfect world everything would be done absolutely perfectly - and no one would complain? I suspect there would still be complainers crawling out of the woodwork.

    The press are to blame for a lot, absolutely. Finding some remote connections between entrepreneurs who stepped in to get PPE into the country and a politician. We could fill pages listing them.

    And of course some people accept it unquestioningly as the absolute truth and base their opinions on that.

    Informed choice, I think is what’s needed. Reading whacko opinions on Social Media is not informed choice.

    There’s a, now disbarred, nurse propounding lots of anti vax views and anti NHS workers whose 21 year old son expressed his opinion recently about her:
    But my mum is definitely beyond help - the problem is because she is so arrogant in her world view and really truly believes that she is a conduit for the truth on a spiritual level, not just a scientific level."

    And in a terrifying admission, Mr Shemirani added how his mother believes "she has been anointed by god or some other higher power" adding how "she thinks that she shouldn’t have to listen to people like us."

    And people listen to her - go figure.
     
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  23. L-u-c-y
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    The thousands of highly qualified doctors and scientists who do not agree with lockdowns are not invited on TV.

    They are then interviewed on youtube, and if you listen to them you are accused of "listening to some nutter from youtube!"
     
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  24. L-u-c-y
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    She is seen as a radical in the anti lockdown community. I don't know anyone who takes any notice of her.
     
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  25. Guest 6019
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    Very good. Though I agree, and understand the hesitancy, personally I didn't hesitate to take the vaccine. I mostly trust scientists and the peer review system is as good as it gets. Big industry and government can't be trusted. It's a difficult one to call.
     
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