Chastity cages and Christianity

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Guest 3944, May 13, 2021.

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  1. Guest 6019
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    With respect Laz, poppycock. I'm not limiting myself at all. I have a good understanding of physics, and an excellent understanding of evolution. I am also an ex theist, with a pretty good understanding of the Christian viewpoint. I am proud of my time as headboy in the local church choir. I obviously completely disagree with you, but respect to all of you. You have an opinion. Much better than just remaining silent. We have more to learn from those whose opinion we disagree with than those we agree with. We all need to keep that in mind.
     
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  2. Lazlo Toth
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    I certainly agree with you there. I could not have said that better. And I particularly appreciate that your opinion is based on SOMETHING. That is, you say, "I feel this way because of xyz". Most just make declarations of their feelings and confuse strong feelings with facts.

    Perhaps best done offline, but I would LOVE to talk with you as an ex-theist. I promise I won't try to change your mind. Rather, I never had a serious conversation with an ex theist. Only A-theists.
     
  3. Design is me
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    Here you go-
    Which God is the right one? That is covered in an episode of `South Park` where the main characters all end up in hell and ask the devil which religion was the right one. I believe it was the episcopaleons. Seriously, I believe that if you follow one god and dutifully practice your faith(except devil worship) and are a good person, you will make it to some form of afterlife.
    My religion is right for me. Everyone has a path and if you are a good loving person, who am I to say you can`t get in. If you are a dick, I don't expect to see you there.
    Do all people have a chance to go to heaven? Yes. Where do people that have never been exposed to christianity go? God made them and isn`t going to send them to hell simply because they where at the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course that is a complicated question. Do the Aztec people who practiced human sacrifice go to heaven? I think not because I think they knew it was an evil practice.
    The bottom line is that no one knows and it is a matter of faith. Who am I to judge who goes to heaven? People today are to judgemental and screw up any religion. Be a good person and love more and hate less. And maybe you can go to heaven, whatever that may actually be. If it does not exist, did i waste my time? How would i know anyway?
    For what it's worth, i have had a near death experience and know that something happens when you are close to death.
     
  4. Guest 6019
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. But if I have heard of Jesus and his teachings and choose to ignore it and do not ask for forgiveness of my sins, then it doesn't matter if I'm good or not. Christianity teaches that I'm going to Hell. You might not want to judge people yourself, but the whole religion is based on fear of God's judgement.
     
  5. Design is me
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    You realize that christianity has been shaped and cut and expanded by man throughout history. Tell me which one of the men that decided what went in and what went out actually new what he was talking about. No one does. It is a matter of faith. Can you tell me for sure if I am going to heaven or not. Maybe judging people is the greatest sin and anyone who judges on earth doesn`t get into heaven.
    I just don't believe God is sending all Jews and Hindus and buhdists and muslims and any other religion to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. Jews follow the same God. Maybe following Jesus gets you extra credit.
    My point that the South Park episode makes clear is that we don`t know squat. Look it up. It's pretty funny.
    You have no more knowledge than anyone else about God`s plan. I wish people would understand that better.
     
  6. Hubby&Missy
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    I repeat, religion is another case of Schrodinger's Cat. We are all right and we are all wrong till the day the box is opened. The box doesn't get opened until we die. You are so right Design is me. We don't actually know squat for certain.
     
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  7. Design is me
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    Sorry I missed this earlier. You mentioned fear of God`s judgement. That is correct. Nowhere does christianity teach about the fear of man's judgement.
    Jesus`s teaching include loving your neighbor. Why would you choose to ignore that? Do you purposely hate people to remain a good atheist? I would hope not. If you don`t believe in an afterlife, why is this conversation any concern of yours? Do you know more than anyone else?
     
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    What a ridiculous thing to say. I hate people to be a good atheist? I mean...Where is that coming from? I love my neighbour, regardless. I don't need a sky god to tell be to be nice to my fellow humans. You obviously think you do. As I have pointed out before this is a public forum and I have every right to my opinion. Take the chastity issue. There is talk from those of a religious persuasion, of being chaste to honour your wife and not masturbate because of various bible references, and that I applaud. As an Atheist, masturbation is not sinful, but is perfectly natural. I chose to be chaste because excessive masturbation was detrimental to my relationship with my wife. We both end up in the same place, but for very different reasons. Both honorable. Both valid. I bear no hatred of the religious. We should be able to exchange views without people resorting to being condescending. As I've said before, "we have more to learn from those we differ from" We share 99% of the same values, hopes and dreams. That 1% we disagree on is simple. Some people believe in many gods. Others are Monotheistic. I just believe in one less god than you. As a minority I'm fascinated by the beliefs of the majority of my fellow man, and why creation myths sprang up all over the world. Why, from the many in the past, only few indured the test of time from some mimetic properties. There is a deep seated need for people to believe in something, and it has interesting evolutionary roots that make sense to me. I was fooled by it for many years into putting metaphysical cause to the unexplained.
     
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  9. Design is me
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    If you love your neighbor, aren`t then following the teachings of Jesus? You are way too serious and must be a joy at parties. Why don't you just lighten up? No one cares that you are a good atheist or not. And by the way, I have just as much chance of being right as you. You believe that at the end of your life there is nothing. I disagree. Is that so bad to think that we are here for a reason and not by happenstance? I know something happens when you die, because I was that close.
    And you ignored my point about fear of god and not fear of man. You don't like being wrong do you?
     
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    #110 Guest 6019, May 30, 2021
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
    More condescending bull. I follow my head, and not Jesus, and I'm still nice. We didn't get to here, through millions of years of evolution by being awful to each other. In local groups we are actually quite a cooperative species.

    As much chance of being correct as me? Neither of us can prove otherwise, so it is not worth debate.

    I am not at all serious, how little you know me. My life is full of love and laughter, thank you, I think it is you that needs to lighten up.

    If you want to believe there is reason behind it all, I have stated before, that I would fight for your right to hold that belief. Would you fight for my right to atheism?

    There are scientific explanations to near-death experiences that make more sense to me, though again I support your right to believe whatever you like.

    As an Atheist, of course I don't believe in divine forgiveness. Though we do personally have the ability to forgive each other. For instance; If you wrong someone, only they can forgive your transgression. Not God, in my humble opinion.

    I am happy to be wrong, but nobody has proved that I am.

    And, nobody cares if you are a good Christian or not.

    Why are you so offended by a different point of view? It is after all, just that. You throw insults at me in a very un-christian manner.
     
  11. Design is me
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    I have not been the one throwing insults. That has been you. I have my religion and you have yours. You are the one that is getting upset here. You can see that by the long and I mean long, replies defending your position. Your conclusion,after all of this, is no different now then it was after your first response. And that is Sky God with capital letters.
     
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    I'm not upset in the slightest, entertained, intellectually stimulated (a little bit) Where have I insulted anyone? Why would my conclusion be any different, I have not been presented with any new evidence?
     
  13. Lazlo Toth
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    Slightly different take here. Religion tends to be talked about in EITHER/OR terms.

    I am curious, is anyone here aware of Jesus' distaste for the lukewarm? "Oh, religion is whatever you want it to be." "No one really knows." etc.

    The atheist enjoys a much higher status in God's eyes than the lukewarm.

    Revelation 3:16. "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

    Genuine atheists get a bad name. It's the lukewarm faith that God detests.
     
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    According to another man's view. I don`t have a lukewarm faith in God, but i do not believe that he is the fire and brimstone version that many believe. I don't need that version to keep me in line. Remember the bible was written thousands of years ago and served a purpose then. I just think judgement should be by god and not by someone that reads the bible more than I do.
    You can cherry pick versus to prove almost any point.
     
  15. Design is me
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    Thank you for the compliment(I think). I am glad you are not upset. I was just having some fun. It seems to me that religion has been around longer than modern science. Shouldn`t science have the burden of disproving the existence of God? Regardless, faith in God does not require proof. The fact that we believe without proof makes our faith stronger.
    The use of the term Sky God is somewhat insulting. But I guess you already knew that.
     
  16. Lazlo Toth
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    Revelation 3:16 is not "another man's view" It's apostle John's direct quote of Jesus Christ.

    You can ignore it, of course. Probably a bad move.
     
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    It was in response to a precious Sky Daddy comment by yourself, so how is insulting when I use a term almost identical to your own. So it was said with humour and irony not out of disrespect.
    You said:
    "Morality begins with compassion, not a Harry Potter type fictional sky daddy. If you need a sky daddy to guide your morality then it's not morality."

    You make my point for me here. I don't need a Sky Daddy to guide my morality.

    Yes religion came first, but that is not proof of anything. As stated before it is impossible to disprove God, or anything for that matter.

    Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.

    Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.[1] He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot, too small to be seen by telescopes, orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.
     
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    Belief without proof may well strengthen your faith, but that doesn't mean it's true. I just need to see the teapot before I can say. "Yes. There is a teapot." I'm not denying the possibility of being wrong, just asking for proof. If that is foolish I have no choice. That's the way I'm wired. And, if as some believe, God made me, then he/she made me this way, so whose fault is that?
     
  19. HusbandX
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    #119 HusbandX, May 30, 2021
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
    John's speaking on behalf of Christ, the reference of 3:16 to lukewarm, does not elevate anyone. The verse is not speaking of elevating, but directly to each individual, and may be summed up as "practice what you preach." Put another way, it says "be not a hypocrite."

    What the scripture does not do is elevate; that's an inference not found in the verse, and a reverse implication. Christ isn't talking about elevating the believer or disbeliever, but cautioning against claiming to believe, but not living up to that claim.

    "Wherefore the Lord said, for as much as this people draw near me with their mouth and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precepts of men..." (Isiah 29:13)

    "Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, this people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matthew 15: 7-9)

    So far as science and religion; the two are entirely different subjects, but do not disagree. One can have both. I am a great believer in science: it governs everything I do. Many of history's greatest minds have been religious, including many scientists. God created the natural world and works through natural laws: science seeks to understand it. We do not know everything of religion. Just a sliver. Science has just scratched the surface and has much father to go. It is a mistake to pit the two against one another, as neither are at odds. A little learning is a dangerous thing; more so to assume one knows everything. Science with faith is a perfect combination.

    Science seeks to understand. It is not merely a matter of believing only in that which has proof. The most basic tenet of the scientific mind is that it is open. One observes. One does not necessarily understand. One seeks to understand, and must, by the very definition of science, be prepared to learn that all one thought was true, may not be, or may be true in a different way, and that truth as we think it today, may evolve with our understand and with more information. One can live a live of science without any loss of faith.

    "And therefore as a stranger, give it welcome.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of, in your philosophy.
    "
    --William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 5
     
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  20. Design is me
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    You are mixing me up with someone else. I only mentioned that I liked the Harry Potter books. I think the person you are referring to to has chosen to ignore you. Hmmmm. I wonder why?
    Why do you insist that God has to be proven to exist. Look up the definition of faith and get back to me.
    Isn`t this a conversation on the use of chastity with regard to Christianity? Why do you care about what others think so much? Is it that important to you?
     
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    The gospels were written by men. They were also edited and translated numerous times. Not to mention decisions were made during Constantine`s reign on what was to be included in the new testament.
    And how do you know that I am a Lukewarm Christian. I am a youth counselor at my church and serve on the board. Maybe I am not judgemental enough in your view, but that seems to be what turns most people off about Christianity. I ask you this, would God want someone that turns people off to him or someone that shows them that God is a loving God. I bet you have one of those fish on the back of your car as you cut through traffic.
     
  22. Guy Masterleigh Bt
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    Unless you are prepared to take on the responsibility of bringing up a child, then you have no right to express an opinion on whether a woman uses contraception or has an abortion.

    That is claiming power without taking responsibility.

    Even then they have a right to ignore you.

    Always remember anti-abortionists are terrorists and murderers.

    Those who support a woman's right to contraception and the ability to have an abortion are not.

    That says it all really.
     
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    No. The quote is yours in response to @HusbandX

    Do do not insist that God has to be proven to exist (to you). Just for me and other non-believers. I wouldn't say I care what you or others think (I care how you all are mentally and physically), I am interested in what others think.

    Why has @HusbandX chosen to ignore me? Despite being theologically well read, and me actually agreeing with a lot of what he said, though I have not commented on it all? He doesn't like people disagreeing with him I guess. Sad really, I enjoy his point of view, he makes some relevant and interesting comment, even if I don't accept all of it.

    What is important to me is intelligent conversation about the big questions in life. I make no judgement of anyone. Are we not all here to learn from each other? What if a Buddhist or Hindu was weighing in, or someone Jewish, or a Muslim. How would you deal with their different point of view?
     
  24. Lazlo Toth
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    If the shoe fits, wear it.

    I did no such thing as call out any individual--including you. I said "I have a different take"......

    Does that sound like "You are a lukewarm Christian"?

    The flak is always the heaviest when you are over the target.
     
  25. Design is me
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    If heaven is filled with pretentious a-holes, I think I will side with Jah Rubbings on this one. And stay away from it.
     
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