Chastity cages and Christianity

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Guest 3944, May 13, 2021.

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  1. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    God is a fictional character?
     
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  2. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Yes, and the bible is a story made up by men.

    I'm surprised an adult would think otherwise.
     
  3. true42
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    true42 Owned member

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    The universe is fortunately large enough for your opinion to not collide with another's faith.
     
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  4. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Not that large it seems.

    Here we are, in a universe small enough that it has collided, on a discusson forum where adults exchange opinions.
     
  5. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    In your opinion, of course.

    As stated before, the question is one of morality, which is a personal standard. Morality without god as the driving force becomes an interesting subject, and it's very much a sliding scale. Morality based on god is a unifying standard, but only insofar as a collective interpretation of what god might be. There are many such interpretations, and many such standards.

    The "bible," as a book, as I stated quite clearly previously, is a collection of writing that was assembled by pagans: it was not put together by christians, not is a great deal of the writing in the book by christians. Some consider it sacred or sacrosanct, hence the title, "Holy Bible." Some adamantly insist that to change a single word of it, or even to paraphrase it, is not only a moral crime, but expressly forbidden by the bible itself. Those who do aren't well read or versed in the scripture, as the warning against those who would "add or take away from this book" was written by Paul in an epistle or letter to a specific group, long before such letters were ever collected or codified in what eventually became voted into a volume called a "bible."

    Clearly the entire bible was written by men. God didn't write it. The only account in the bible of god writing are the stone tablets carried by Moses, down from Mt. Horeb, ultimately in what has become known as the "ten commandments."

    The traffic laws and public laws that you must obey weren't written by those who published them, or made the traffic signs advising speed limits and required stops. Those laws for formed by others, and written and published by different men (and women) than made the laws. That's the way it works.

    Likewise, scripture exists around the world, much of it claiming to be the word of god, usually through god's spokesmen, or "prophets," who have received inspiration, direction, or commandments, and have provided those accounts. In many cases, the records have been abridged, or compiled from older records, such as the first five books of the old testament, known as the books of moses...who didn't write them, but summarized older records.

    There is a great deal of writing out there which hasn't been cannonized as "holy writ," such as the Apocrypha. Some consider these tales, others consider them true records. Much of what's included in or out of scripture is not literal, but figurative, illustrative, or told to teach a moral. Christ himself had a habit of teaching through stories or parables, that he would tell to individuals or crowds, and then use the story to illustrate a point. Today, they're still in common use, such as the parable of the good samaritan. Which of these men, Christ asked, was neighbor to the man who fell among thieves. The ruling class? The preaching class? Or the man most despised of all, the Samaritan, who went out of his way to care for a stranger? Today, we use the term to identify the same: people who go beyond themselves to help others.

    This does not mean that the accounts cited in the bible, or other writings, are "made up," or invented. There is a great deal to be had from the scripture, as it represents learning, observations lessons, wisdom, and in context morality, over thousands of years, and you can reject it at your own peril. There is much in the scripture that applied to a specific people at a specific time, and there is also much there that's written to apply to all, as well as that which applies to us today. It takes time and study to know the difference, as opposed to outright dismissal.

    The bible makes clear that anyone who wants to know the truth of what's written, needn't find it in arguments or debates or even relying upon the word of others. If the bible is the word of god as it identifies itself to be, then there's only one place to go to find out: to god. A qualifier is given: "if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing waivering. For he that waivereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think he shall receive anything of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

    I once met a man who was sailing the worlds oldest square rigger sailing ship, around the world. We were in Australia, and it was in dry dock getting some repairs, in Townsville. He gave me a tour of the boat, and we chatted. He came to religion; he belonged to no church, but he said he had a strong belief in God. I asked him why. He said he gained it on the sea, night after night, studying the sky and the heavens, and after much thought and reflection, he concluded that the universe could not exist without god.

    Personally, when I walk through a fall forest and I pick up a skeletonized leaf, and see the intricacy, I see the fingerprint of god. You may just see a decaying leaf, and that's fine, too. I have had experiences in my life that I should not have survived, but by extreme luck, or some other means, and it was very clear to me in retrospect that my survival was neither skill nor luck. Such events that define our lives as turning points are ours, and ours alone to interpret and understand. We often come from them changed, having gained an understand that we could not have gained any other way. It is our decision making and our judgement that stems from those events and every other smaller one that may go unnoticed, that defines us, makes us who we are, and it our understanding that evolves in the wake of our life experiences that shapes our beliefs, and for some, our knowledge.

    In my life, I know that God exists. I no longer believe it. I know it. I know that the scripture, despite its translation faults and the frailties of time and the intervention of the men who wrote it and compiled it, contains the word of God, and I know that God continues to speak to us today. I know that despite our beliefs, we are all children of the same God, who created us long before this world and this life, and who loves us whether we believe in him or not. I know that there is considerably more scripture than what's contained in the bible, that God cares the same for black and white, male and female, muslim and christian and agnostic and athiest, and doesn't care about nationality or politics. I know that we are today what god once was, that god works through natural laws, with a much better understanding of them than we have yet, and that as children of that god, his legacy is that we can one day be the same, just as parents hope for the best for their children, and the children have their parents inheritance.

    I feel no animosity if you don't know these things, or believe them. God doesn't require your belief, in order to exist. I don't require your belief to know and understand the things in my life which both guide, and define it. Your insistence that I am "insane" and not an "adult," and that what I know to be true is "imaginary," has no impact on what I know to be true. None.

    Likewise, one ought not need god to exist, in order to have scruples, morals, and a sense of what is right or wrong. That sense can certainly be tempered and taught by the existence of god, and informed by scripture, as one is willing to accept, believe, and eventually come to know. We each choose our paths; it's clear that you've chosen yours. You may do well to open your mind a bit and understand that others who do not believe the same as you, are not insane children. If you have any sense of science in you, then an open mind is an essential; one must always be prepared to say that he or she thinks something is true to day, but it may be disproven tomorrow, as science has consistently shown, for centuries. Or you may remain closed to that too, the most basic tenet of the scientific mind. Your choice. That's really the key. You have a choice, as do I.

    I choose not to call you insane, or less than an adult, or disparage you for your lack of belief in God. I don't need your affirmation to believe. Perhaps that's the difference.
     
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  6. Mrloched
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    Mrloched Long term member

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    If there is any deity up there the notion that he cares what you do with your penis is laughable.

    God is good, if you touch your penis on a Sunday you burn in a lake of fire for all eternity. Unless you get a priest to forgive you. These are the ideas of religious zealots not a benevolent creator.

    The bible is no longer compatable with the modern world in regards to sex, women and slavery.
    The obsession about what people do sexualy and with whom might have made sense during the bronze and iron age but no more. Women are able to take control of their reproductive cycles. Homosexuality is part of nature not a valid reason for hate. The bible isn't without value but as society progresses parts of it are rendered obsolete.
     
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  7. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Morality begins with compassion, not a Harry Potter type fictional sky daddy. If you need a sky daddy to guide your morality then it's not morality.

    Religion is a lack of clear thinking, it's a state of confusion at best, and at worst it's a mental illness that has caused and continues to cause untold suffering.

    Religion prevents and continues to prevent progress, and according to the bible that's just the way God likes it.

    if there is a God he likes unquestioning mindless automaton slaves.
     
  8. Mrloched
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    Mrloched Long term member

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    It's funny we care about some things in the bible but not others homosexuality is bad but wearing mixed fibres is fine ? Drinking alcohol in a church is strictly forbidden, Catholics???????
    Sleeping with another mans wife is death but sleeping with his slaves will only require you to sacrifice a goat.
    Its fine for your neighbour to keep slaves as long as they are not Israelites. We wouldn't want to do it to our own people we recognise that slavery us bad. All the time don't forget to love thy neighbour.

    If you want a guide for morality the bible not a good choice. Try star trek,

    "There can be no justice so long as law is absolute. Even life itself is an excercise in exceptions.”
    “When has justice ever been as simple as a rule-book?” - Riker

    The Next Generation (season 1 epis. 7: Justice)

    Amen.



    The truth is people cherry pick the bible to support their own prejudices or show others how virtuous they are. It's all very human
     
  9. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    As you cannot have a conversation without hurling name calling and insults ad infinitum, further conversation with you has ended. You're on the ignore list.

    I've nothing against your disbelief. It's your attitude and your closed mind that has ended further exchange. Tossing out insults in place of substance is not intellect, and I'll waste no more time with you.
     
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  10. Guest 3944
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    Guest 3944 Active member

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    Amen.

    Can we talk about the way chastity caging helps your self control? It's about honor, respect, balance and love.

    That's why we "deaden" our thoughts and parts if necessary to show love and respect and devotion for the (insert your word of origin here, God, Man, Monkey, Martian, Primordial Soup)-ordained arrangement of love and marriage, or whatever relationship you have with your Love.

    There may be a place for a new business opportunity here for chastity cages for the mouth or index finger. Maybe that's the "member" that needs deadening.

    Geez, so I think the bible is cool and I read it and found something that some of us could benefit from knowing because we are readers of it, and it turns into a pissing match over personal theology.

    Sorry for this call out, but this is not a personal attack forum, it's a chastity forum. We all lead different lives and do chastity for different reasons, which are not for me to judge. It's all good.

    So go back to your cage with the rhetoric please, and for all you people here that actually LIKE the bible, I was trying to provide some common sense to chastity caging. It was for contemplation, not absolution or justification.

    But this is exactly why this world is screwed up. Nobody can have common sense discussions when it comes to the bible or religion or politics. It is like some lights your fuse and you blow up.

    So I am not really caring where you think you came from. If you want to think your monkey is your uncle, or you came from two original human parents from God, or you fell from Mars as seedlings of spawn, of you morphed into a human from sea creature, that's fine.

    I know where I came from. It is my personal opinion that I came from my mom, and I am pretty sure she did the same, and so on. So that works for me.

    Whatever works for you, just believe what you want. But stay locked.

    Peace, love and Lock.
     
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  11. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    Of course. But that would be a different thread. This one was started with a different purpose, wasn't it?

    This thread is about, per the title, chastity, and Christianity.

    In context, if the subject is self control, the question central to the thread would be how this affected by Christianity, and per the original poster, the bible. Given that it seems a number of posters may be christian, the topic does seem of interest, if it can be had without the insults and put-downs.

    Specific to the subject, Christianity was never meant for debate, nor an argument. Those who do over look the injunction of christ to not argue, nor to open the subject before those who would. Do not cast your pearls before swine, he taught, an allegory with a powerful image. Agree quickly with those who would argue, while in the way with them. Those who argue christianity, and religion in general, don't understand it, and it's a waste of time to engage them.

    Nothing can be proven by religion and scripture. Nothing. Scripture is easily twisted and interpreted to mean anything. Arguing it solves nothing, convinces no one.

    Many of the greatest minds of recorded history were religious or spiritually minded, though clearly of different cultures, beliefs, etc.

    Morality is always a sliding scale. Kindness is important to one person's morality, but not found in another. Christianity rose from the law of Moses; the former being an eye for an eye; justice and even revenge. Christianity teaches turn the other cheek, forgive, love. Whereas the former law prescribed physical punishments for physical acts, the higher law of christianity invoked the principle that the thoughts of the mind and heart count, too. It's not enough to be chaste, under christianity; one must think and believe chastity in one's heart.

    Germain to the thread, the topic of chastity (namesake of the website, after all), isn't dictated in the bible, but it does address those who practice it.

    In Matthew, Christ taught "blessed are the pure in heart."

    In his second epistle to the saints at Corinth, Paul wrote, "cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of the flesh."

    In Titus, we read, "be discreet, chaste"

    In James, "Keep himself unspotted from the world."

    In first Peter, "behold your chaste conversation."

    In the old testament, a very basic tenet of coupling is that man shall leave his father and his mother and cleave to his wife, and none else.

    The bible speaks of spiritual destruction from changing the "natural use" of both men and women, describing such as "vile affections," and pointedly speaks against homosexuality.

    A custom among certain of the times, when the scriptures were penned, that continues today, was the forbidding of marriage, known to day as a "vow of chastity," In first Timothy, Paul describes this practice, speaking of the modern day, as a doctrine of the devil. This doesn't speak directly to chastity, as being chaste, and taking a vow of chastity as meant in the modern vernacular, are two separate things, and quite different.

    In the same chapter, Paul says, "let no man despise thy youth," which is to say that all of the elements of our youth are gifts. Paulstates to use them in purity.

    The law of chastity is to abstain from sexual relations with any, but those with whom one is lawfully married. The means by which one abstains is not prescribed, but there is no reason to believe that the practice of chastity, to include the use of a chastity cage, is contrary to the scripture. The purpose in one's heart is what counts, and the scripture clearly states that God looks on the heart, while man looks on the outward appearance. What is in one's heart is known to each man, and to God, and is between them. Simply put, the bible will not tell you to wear a chastity cage, or to refrain, but does teach purity of heart, sexual abstinance except in the appropriate setting, and that it is up to each individual to have a personal relationship with god. The bible does not tell what to do. It provides guidelines and leaves your actions to your own conscience.

    The central theme is to "work out your own salvation, with fear and trembling before god," yet at all times, you have your own free agency to do as you will. Nothing in this world, be it in your home, in your ecosystem, your planet, your universe, is without consequence. To every action there is an equal and opposite one, and a body in motion tends to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. The scripture is not mystical. It is counsel. I can choose to put things into my body which are harmful. Chances are that no one will stop me. But there is a consequence. Likewise, we can do things to our mind, our spirit, our finances, our possessions, which benefit them (and us) or harm them (and us). It's up to us to determine what they are. I think all of us here are beyond the control of our parents; it's up to us to stay healthy, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and to avoid harm. It's up to us to determine what harms us, and what doesn't.

    Nothing will stand in our way, for the most part, if we choose the wrong path. Occasionally, something does intervene. I've been a part of a few interventions for friends and associates who were headed down the wrong path; alcohol, cocaine, and other problems, and friends intervened to help save them from themselves. Mostly, however, in this life, it's up to you to save yourself from traffic, from the cold, from tainted food, from spiritually corrosive material, from anything that might harm us, our world, our relations, our lives, our relationships. It's up to us to recognize those things, and the bible, while useful in many respects, does not come out and provide a laundry list. What's appropriate for one person may not be for another, and we live in this world as a great laboratory where we learn lessons, and are tried and tested, and experiment with our environment and our choices, to grow, to become more when we leave this world than we were when we entered. That's the point of life. That's why we're here. To grow. To learn. To find happiness.

    How we do that is largely up to us. Think of religion and the scripture as a sort of guidebook, a life's tips aid that offers some counsel, but the real work of becoming us is up to us, and we can't blame god, or the devil, or chocolate cake, or a cock cage or the lack thereof for who we are and what we become. We are responsible for us, standing naked before the universe. Just us.

    God knows us based on our hearts, and he knows us better than we know us. He knows us so well that he knows what we'll do, much in the same way I know what my kids will do, the choices they'll make. We read of judgement, but most don't understand that we judge ourselves by our actions, and the scripture confirms: by their works shall ye know them.

    A favorite biblical story of mine is that of a woman who was to be stoned to death for adultery. Christ intervened and said to those who were about to execute the woman, "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." The stones were dropped, the crowd dispersed and the woman approached Christ. He asked, "where are they that condemned thee?" He added, "neither do I condemn thee. Go thy way and sin no more." If I knew no other scripture, that would be enough, because it defines christianity in a nut shell. It's not about kumbaya and love sit-ins. It's about hard work and overcoming. Christ didn't offer the woman forgiveness; she had yet to repent of her actions and choices, which is to say that she still had to make peace with herself and with her world, and with god. But what is important is that Christ didn't condemn her. He didn't turn away from her. He didn't reject her. He simply offered a teaching: go thy way, and sin no more.

    Where ever you are in your life, no matter what you have done or the decisions you've made or the place you've arrived, the lesson Christ taught is pure and simple. You are not lost. It's not over. It's just a steering correction back onto the road. Move on from this point, learn from it. That's it. That's the gospel in a nutshell. Forget mystical, forget magic. None of that. No condemnation there. Simply learn from life, adjust accordingly, move on. Countless voices have offered guidance through the ages, and it's there to be taken advantage of, should you choose. That's the point of the scripture. You can still call a friend. That's prayer. You can still refocus. What you use to refocus and how you do it, is up to you. Just know that you're not lost, not condemned, and that whatever your choice, you're still valued. I love my kids no matter where they go in life or what they do, no matter the choices they make. I cry for them, I pray for them, I cheer for them. Just as God does for us. I help them, if they let me, just as God does, too. There is is: christianity in a nutshell.

    It won't tell you what to do, if that's what you're expecting. You do that. It will offer help if you listen. You're under no obligation to do so, any more than a person is obligated to take medicine when sick, read the directions when baking bread, or follow the speed limit signs on a bend in the highway. All come with potential consequences that we choose as a function of a particular action. Pick up one end of the stick, pick up the other. Christianity tells us that regardless of which stick we pick up, or which end, we still have worth, we should still watch out for the other guy, everyone else is our neighbor, and if god doesn't give up on them, neither should we. Everything given in the scripture is nothing more than a tool to help us in our journey. As the scripture says, the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. When we help someone, the hidden truth is that we gain more form it than they do, and while the bible promises blessings for doing the right thing, the reality is that we help ourselves. Like a baby being taught to walk, the baby thinks it's pleasing it's parents when it takes those first steps, and of course, they're thrilled. The parents know that the baby is achieving a life skill necessary for the rest of that child's days; the baby is really helping itself, guided by the parent. Many in this world never know their parent, yet that guiding hand is still there, unseen. Counsel comes from many places, not the least of which is scripture. It won't tell you what to do, but deep down inside, you already know.

    Listen.
     
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  12. Guest 3944
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    First of all, I was commending you for the call out to the previous post.

    Second, I know why the post was started it, since I happen to be the OP.

    You said,

    "Nothing can be proven by religion and scripture. Nothing. Scripture is easily twisted and interpreted to mean anything."

    Let me first say we can agree to disagree, and that is fine. No problem with that.

    However, for someone who thinks that "nothing can be proven by religion or scripture....", you sure quoted the bible a lot to prove and support your points.

    Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with your knowledge of scripture. Really, I sincerely mean that. Your posts are abundant in scripture that I also know and choose to live by.

    So that's puzzling to me that you would make that statement and yet you are using scripture and interpreting it to make your points valid.

    That's really all I did. Same thing. Took a verse, extracted a portion of it that I felt had application, and post it.

    That is exactly what you have done several times, and done well I might add. But, what you have done is (in your words):

    "proven by....scripture", even though you yourself say, "nothing can....".

    So are you saying we should NOT do that? You did it and you think it's ok, as do I.
     
  13. HusbandX
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    HusbandX Long term member

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    Yes, I did.

    I attempted to prove nothing with them. I chose to use my words and chose to include references to, and paraphrases of scripture. What you or anyone else would choose to do is fine, in your own post.

    What I did not attempt to do is prove a thing, nor is that possible with what I provided, or any reference in scripture. I spoke for myself, as I'm wont to do. I included what I chose to include, as is my right, and as I do, and I wrote until I was finished. For that, there's no apology.

    I did not prove by scripture. Nor did I attempt to do so. I made reference to scripture. It proves nothing, nor had I any intention thereof.

    Had I intended to do so, I would have said so. I didn't.

    I appreciate you explaining to me what you think I said, or should have said.

    I did not. You're welcome to speak for yourself, though, and not for me. Did you have a comment or point to make, or was it simply to tell me what I said, or should have said?
     
  14. Hubby&Missy
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    Hubby&Missy Love keeps us together

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    The Bible like all other holy scriptures from all the religions are more of a guide than a set of rules and interpreted literally are very contradictory. The Jewish faith, the several Christian sects and the multiple Islam sects all started from the same place and have similar scripture. Even in a given church, individuals will often have a slightly different interpretation of their religion. Religion it turns out is what you believe. Even atheism is a religious belief albeit anti-religion.

    Religion is another example of Schrodinger’s Cat. Everyone’s belief is simultaneously right and wrong and unfortunately, or fortunately, the box will not be opened until we all meet, or not, in the great hereafter.
     
  15. Jessica Alexander
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    Jessica Alexander Trans woman not a mistress or Dom

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    I think the Bible prefers castrations.

    Matthew 19:12

    For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
     
  16. Design is me
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    When you speak of mindless automaton slaves, are you referring to the `woke` crowd that we here so much of today? Try and have a contrary opinion around any of them. I don't recommend it.
    When you mention progress, what does that even mean? That is just a catch all word for people that don"t believe in any religion. Personally I think it is very sad that you think that we are here out of just happenstance. How do you wake up each day knowing that your life is meaningless. Just kind of sad. You are entitled to your opinion. By the way, I loved the Harry Potter books.
     
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  17. Mrloched
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    Mrloched Long term member

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    I think he means progress, like we have progressed, things are better now than they was before.
    Slavery for example, the bible's fine with it society is not. Life has become better for many people now they are not considered property.
    Women are no longer expected to marry their rapist they can choose there own fate and are no longer the chattel of the men folk.
    Gay people can no longer be criminalized, subjected to abuse and violence. I think he was talking about stuff like that.

    Do you not agree that this is progress ?
    Do you condone slavery, the objectification of women and the persecution of homosexuals ?

    If you want to belive in a benevolent god and love your fellow man there are parts of the bible that must be abandoned. You cannot have a benevolent god who hates gays. He creates them sick and commands they be well ?
    When it comes to morality the bible is very much a product of its time.
     
  18. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    That's your giant "child of god" ego talking, thinking it is special and somehow chosen by one of thousdands of gods available.

    I wake just fine, thank you for your concern. I don't need mild schizophrenia or delusions of grandeur to find meaning in each moment and that starts the moment I open my eyes.
     
  19. Design is me
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    Design is me Long term member

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    I realize that you must have a very high intilect and are very forward thinking, but you are missing the point. I will make it simple for you.
    If I'm wrong, what do I lose. I meet many nice people on sundays and follow the teachings of a man that wants us to be good people and love one another. I die thinking I might go to heaven. No big lose if it is only darkness.
    If I am right and you are wrong, well I have a chance to go to `heaven` for eternity. You on the other hand will probably not fair as well. Who is the fool here?
     
  20. Design is me
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    Design is me Long term member

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    Now you are the one cherry picking from the bible. You are referring to old testament text and the writings of Paul, who was kind of a nut. Jesus did not teach those things that you refer to in your rant. Man is not inherently good and much of the bible can be twisted to be used for lack of a better term, `evil`.
    I and most people that try to be good Christian's are fine with your idea of progress. Who am I to judge? You can always find the bad in any group. Is the bible and other religious texts perfect? Maybe, maybe not? But our idea of goodness and `right and wrong` comes from religion. Without it, you have a moving target that mankind is not very good at hitting.
    Also for you to consider, when someone doesn`t have a religion in there life, that basic need is just replaced with something else. I have always thought that atheists spend so much time trying to convince us that there is no such thing as God, that it becomes a religion in itself. They use childless terms for him and try to belittle those that do follow a religion. What do I care about your religion? Very little I'm afraid.
    Our life on earth is hard enough as it is. What is the point of being a dick to others to prove an unprovable point?
     
  21. Design is me
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    Design is me Long term member

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    Concerning slavery. Slavery was common at the time of the writing of the bible. Nowhere in the bible does it condone slavery. The word slavery is what is used in the translation of the bible. It does not mean the same thing as the slavery in the south. Indentured servitude is more accurate. Believe it or not, slavery is still common today. Children and women are sold into slavery every day. It is and always has been a terrible thing. The bible is meant to be a guide not taken word for word.
    You might also consider the fact that inherent freedom is a relatively new thing for our `society`. You can thank the writers of the constitution for that one. By the way. Most of them were deeply religious.
     
  22. JaySaysYes
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    JaySaysYes I identify as someone that is always right

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    Doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong, and there is no way to know, obviously.

    If god is real then I assume it is a forgiving god (because if not then I doubt many will be eliigible for entry) then I'll wait in line and plead my case just like you will, as everyone will.

    But fear not, should your god not allow you entry into the kingdom of heaven there are thousands of other gods to choose from.

    Going anywhere for eternity sounds awful. Why would any sane person want that?
     
  23. Lazlo Toth
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    Lazlo Toth C/D on the TomAllen-Rectrix scale: 9/9

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    One thing is for sure Mrloched, you will someday know the truth. Same for me.

    I suspect you are a good person who tries to live a life being kind to others. But I am going to make a guess here, that you have not actually read--and understood--the entire Bible. I recommend that you do not make sweeping generalizations about a document you do not fully understand. For example, Old Testament Law (that you say must be "abandoned") has been fulfilled for you. That's a huge point of the New Testament. The "rule" to stone homosexuals in Deuteronomy was fulfilled when Christ taught us to love one another as ourselves. Anyone who as actually read the Bible would know that Christians and Jews do not advocate for the persecution of homosexuals.
     
  24. Guest 6019
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    Guest 6019 Long term member

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    Opinions are formed and change with further evidence.

    Faith is blind and chooses to ignore or refute evidence.
     
  25. Guest 6019
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    Guest 6019 Long term member

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    #75 Guest 6019, May 26, 2021
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
    "As stated before, the question is one of morality, which is a personal standard. Morality without god as the driving force becomes an interesting subject, and it's very much a sliding scale. Morality based on god is a unifying standard, but only insofar as a collective interpretation of what god might be. There are many such interpretations, and many such standards"

    So morality with God is a sliding scale too, depending on whose interpretation a person chooses themselves? So what is the difference. Who is more moral? A good person with faith or the same person without? A recent Atheist Ex-Christian friend of mine was struggling with this question, and I offered this advice. "You are the same person, with the same morals, you just now realise that they come from within" Not forgetting his lovely parents, who brought up a kind and caring guy and a great dad in his own right. He's better than me. Far more tolerant. But then I try to live my life with the principle of "don't harm others" so I'm moral too, as I think most of us are, no matter what you believe.

    Peace to you @HusbandX I mean no offence, just love the debate.
     
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