How would you explain the difference between male subs and slaves?

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by L-u-c-y, Apr 3, 2020.

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  1. collaredhubby
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    collaredhubby Long term member

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    And therein lies the problem as stated before if you can’t come to an agreed upon definition, you can’t realistically rationally discuss it. For example, I could say I’m Michael Jordan or Buzz Aldrin. Me saying it and affirming it doesn’t make me a basketball superstar or an astronaut. No, they might make me crazy or more to the point wrong...but they don’t make me those people or those occupations. So for a slave to be a slave they’re going to have to follow an agreed upon definition by all otherwise they’re just playing at it. I could say I’m a ninja, that doesn’t make me Naruto Uzamaki. What does is training to be a ninja and eventually achieving the status of it through hard work and determination. The same could (should?) be said for those who would say they are a “slave” to their master, but a slave has a definitive definition and if you can’t see that well, you can live in the fantasy of being an astronaut, but it still doesn’t make you one...there’s a practical reality and rationality to this way of thinking and acting and make sense when you put it to the test in real life. I think the frustration that LUCY has experienced has been largely attributable to the point you’ve helped me, I think, prove.
     
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  2. LesterBallard
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    LesterBallard Long term member

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    The terms are on a continuum but I guess a sub obeys, even if he doesn't want to, and that tension is part of the appeal. Acting against your own personal wishes on someone else's instruction gives the headrush. But a slave has already foregone that and doesn't consider his wishes to be important. So being a slave gives him a different headrush.
     
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  3. Slave to Wife
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    Slave to Wife Nobody Important

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    I think slaves like me enjoy the feeling of being owned, sometimes to the point of easily being forced into it with a little domination.

    Subs, on the other hand, retain ownership of themselves and enjoy acts of submission.

    I am a sub, but even further, I can be captured as a slave. And my wife takes advantage of me that way because she likes control.
     
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  4. collaredhubby
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    collaredhubby Long term member

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    con·tin·u·um
    /kənˈtinyo͞oəm/

    noun
    noun: continuum; plural noun: continua
    1. a continuous sequence in which adjacent elements are not perceptibly different from each other, although the extremes are quite distinct.
    So, you're saying there is no discernible difference between a submissive and a slave? Isn't the point of this conversation that there definitively in fact of reality is a discernible difference and the terms are not thus on a continuum? There IS a difference and that difference should matter. It is also why it causes frustrations in the relationships people seek when they look for one or the other and get the opposite, I would argue. I would also point out that you say the terms are on a continuum but then go on to define them...if they were on a continuum, the terms could not be necessarily defined except by the "extremes (that) are quite distinct" which again goes to support my point that these differences matter.

    So I would ask again, do the words we use matter? Does the language we employ mean something? This isn't semantics. These are important distinctions that lead to better communication and with improved good communication you get better understanding and thus less negative conflict which promotes better relationships due to less miscommunications, misunderstandings, and hurt feelings. This may mean that tough love and hearings things we may not want to would have to be embraced.

    I'm sure no person who calls themselves a slave would want to be told by their dominant partner that they are acting like more of a submissive but would appreciate a set of guidelines, like say a clear and concise, unmistakable, cannot be misunderstood definition of what a slave is in the shortest form possible, such as a dictionary definition I provided in are earlier post, so that they could then decide if they could and would adhere to it in full or if they misjudged what they really are and want or need to renegotiate their contract, have a long discussion, or if they just aren't going to work. Affirming you're an astronaut does not make you one, or more to the point, a submissive saying he/she is a slave does NOT make them one, but acting and living and doing and adhering to what a slave is does.

    From a standpoint of reason, someone outside of your dynamic should in theory be able to look at you and your relationship in the dynamic you say it is and unmistakably see what you say about it is true or not. Furthermore, if they were given a short definition of each of the terms we've been speaking about and shown two different couples displaying the difference in the two term dynamics, (they) should be able to pick out, from a purely scientific perspective as an observer, which couple is which dynamic and that is the difference. Is what you're playing at in fantasy, if you choose to make it a lifestyle, really what you're doing and are you really being true to the definition of it where someone could clearly see from the scientific perspective of an observer that you are who and what you say you are or not.

    These distinctions and differences matter.
     
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  5. LesterBallard
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    LesterBallard Long term member

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  6. Mrloched
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    There is a clear diffrence. A sub is a submisive person. Submissiveness is an emotional state like anger or pride. A slave us a person who is owned. A sub can only become a slave via interaction with a person who wishes to exercise control over that other person.
     
  7. Slave to Wife
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    Slave to Wife Nobody Important

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    I am a slave. My wife calls me whatever the fuck she wants to call me.

    I am not some snowflake prima donna who makes everyone around them adjust to their view of the world. I serve my wife, and I consent to the fact that I really don't have consent over anything. She has these excellent breasts, and there isn't much I can do to stop being attracted to them. So she gets whatever she wants, does as she pleases.
     
  8. Xileh
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    I have little experience with slaves. In my own sub mind, I suspect that subs and slaves share similar traits; both are willing to give up control. The degree of control relinquished seems to define sub or slave.

    The amount of control the dominant exerts, appears to reside on a spectrum; lots or little. For this example, I would not think of the spectrum as having fixed end points either. That is frightening for the sub or slave, and that’s where a lot of power resides for the dominant.

    Usually, the dominant seeks an equilibrium of control on the spectrum, not always in the middle, and not static. Where she resides at any moment, is her prerogative. In my own experience, the point of equilibrium can move a considerable distance with little or no notice.

    So, depending on the point on the spectrum the dominant is residing at the moment, and the end point chosen, a sub can be expected to learn discipline and start to look more like a slave, or the slave can really work hard and begin looking like a sub.

    Just kidding of course.
     
  9. CaramelMochaBoss
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    CaramelMochaBoss Caramel skin. Likes to be boss in bed.
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    Viewing this thread it seems everyone has their own definition for sub and slave. Im sure the domina and mistress have their own definitions too of how they wish it to be.

    I think a good follow up question is, are they both on the same page? And are expectations met on both ends.
     
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  10. Blue00
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    It would seem there are many lessons in all of this. Terms are not well defined making every one who posted here correct. Now consider that Domme terms have the same loose definitions and you can see why there is not one right way for a Domme or sub to behave. Ultimately, everyone writes his/her/their own story.
     
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  11. CaramelMochaBoss
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    CaramelMochaBoss Caramel skin. Likes to be boss in bed.
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    U can also see why theres often big room for disproportionate expectations and misunderstanding.
     
  12. billzboats
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    billzboats 63rd birthday

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    My wife has accepted the dominant role in the bedroom but knows that I have her back. She has seen me in action! I choose this life because it fits me.
     
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  13. Kylara
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    Kylara Happy feminized sub owned by Mistress PHEBUSA

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    I guess that a slave must have a master that gives orders and has no personal life.
    A sub is more someone (a man in my case) who has his whole life that he can manage and his hobbys.
    Just when it came with my wife, her desire needs, leisure, pleasure hobby pass first.

    A slave has no opinion and has to shut up as a sub has one and if his mistress has another he agree with her even if he thinks she is not right.
     
  14. Orcoda
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    I agree with you actually! Its how I am too. I prefer sub because it sounds better too. Not only that but when you meet a new dom they tend to treat you a bit better.
    I've had quite a few when I used slave instead of sub treat me really bad right from the start. It doesn't make me want them. I want to get to know them first as a person.
    I In all honesty before you're theirs I still believe they should treat you with some respect at least. Maybe this is just me but I prefer a domme that appreciates the things I do. If I do a good job and she makes it seem like its never good enough eventually I'd probably just give up. Your dommes happiness is your happiness. This is just my opinion. However like you I see them as the same. The general population seems to have this opinion too. I hope this helps if even just a little!
     
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  15. L-u-c-y
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    #40 L-u-c-y, Jul 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
    It's similar to some who call themselves a sissy, but they are actually a cross dresser, and vice versa. The definitions are not set in stone.
     
  16. ladylionzsissy
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    ladylionzsissy male chastity sissymaid

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    i feel it may be a head-space thing Ms L-U-C-Y. as a sissy maid i'm first submissive, and that submissiveness enslaves me to do Mistress' and other Lady's biddings. one's mileage may differ on this interpretation.
     
  17. Pasmem
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    Pasmem Mistress Lucy's slave

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    I believe a slave is a male owned by his Mistress. A sub is a free male who recognize Female Supremacy, Madame.
     
  18. billzboats
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    billzboats 63rd birthday

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    Well said!
     
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  19. LockitMan
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    LockitMan Lifestyle service submissive/slave/sissy maid

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    Dear Miss Lucy,

    I usually think of it in a kind of shorthand way, subs set their own boundaries, hard/soft limits, etc, and slaves do not. In that case the Mistress dictates what they will, or won't be. In that no responsible owner wants to intentionally damage their slave, there are still limits, but they'll be much fewer and they no longer require your input.
     
  20. Byrdie
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    Byrdie Junior Member
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    My best guess is that the title “submissive” was added to the kink lexicon as an alternative by people who were squicked by the title “slave”. Thus, the corresponding titles of “Dominant” for subs and “Master” for slaves came into use. *

    It’s just a theory on my part, but it would certainly explain why there’s no agreed-upon distinction between a sub and a slave - possibly because there never was one beyond people’s comfort zones.

    * Okay, granted, there’s also Owner / property relationships but I find those are more rare, and they weren’t mentioned.
     
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  21. Guest 0387
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    Hilarious!!
     
  22. Alex 111
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    Alex 111 Member

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    After many years in chastity my wife offer me the choice to become her slave, in her definition i should be cuckolded, pussyfree: with this word she means that i'll never see pussy. Considering that she own three clothing shop she can bring money home and i should only do housework. This would be another means to Own me.
     
  23. Guest 3042
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    Guest 3042 Active member

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    I'm a sub, have been it for as long I can remember. But when I met my wife 11 years ago and married her the year after, had a cage on that day, I slowely became her slave and can call me that since 2014, with contract and all. But I'm my wifes slave, with others I'm a sub. And, god help not, we will divorce or she dies I wil be a sub again.
     
  24. Sipriotes
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    Sipriotes Slave to Artemistress

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    BDSMTest.org has some good definitions I think:

    I consider myself a slave to my Mistress as we have no specific negotiated limits in our relationship, and I've explicitly given her the right to control my body and use it as she pleases.
     
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  25. Guest 6019
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    Guest 6019 Long term member

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    "All slaves are submissive but not all submissives are slaves" Confucius 500BC
     
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