The 'telling her what you like' paradox

your kink becomes her kink if she finds it amusing or arousing.
the happiest couples share kinks or know how to turn the other on, and give enough of a damn to keep one another aroused and attracted to one another.
sadly most vanilla and even kink couples lack the above in certain capacities

 

It really depends on you, actually.

Imagine you say to your partner, I like roast chicken, and you give them a sample recipe for roast chicken. One night they make the roast chicken following your recipe, and they substitute in oregano instead of basil because they like oregano better.

Do you say:
A) Thank you for making roast chicken! I love it, and I love the fact that you changed the recipe to your tastes
or do you say:
B) How come you didn't follow the recipe I gave you?

The key is to communicate your likes, and then to be supportive of your dominant partner's decisions.

 

Yes, it is a paradox. For chastity, once you have introduced the concept, you may go through a period of leading the action. Then, one day, she might just surprise you by leading you in a direction you may not have expected.

That’s when it hits home. You are no longer in control.

 

There are lots of ways to "tell her". You alluded to a clip with condoms and cream - maybe find a porno which has your preferred events and share it with her. You can make the one you want one item in a list of ideas, so if she picks that one it IS a surprise.
We have regular debrief sessions where I get to say what was good, what was not so good, and what I found unduly distressing. My KH is under no obligation to take any notice of these, but over time it has refined our activities so it improves the way that both of us enjoy the lifestyle.

 

Great question, particularly for a new relationship. As a submissive you should do what the Domme wants. But you also want them to know the special kinks that spin your wheels. Partly for your own pleasure but also because it drives you further into submission and love of chastity. Communication is easy answer, but there is the risk of topping from the bottom, which for me is something i want to avoid at all costs. I'd rather do what the Domme prefers even if it means less pleasure for me - that is sort of my philosophy that Dommes come first (no pun intended). Maybe exchanging lists of desires you have would work. Maybe just subtle hints about things you might want to try, using some of the ideas outlined earlier by others. It is a delicate exchange, but the times i've been explicit about what i want have never been as exciting as doing something your Domme wants that was unexpected.

 

Firstly, there is no right and wrong, what works for somebody else may not, and need not, work for you.

Negotiationis what you're interested in. There are kink checklists floating out there, that would allow you each to retreat to a neutral corner, and decide your interests independently. I like one that ranks activities on a continuum from "hard limit" to "hate" to "could put up with" to "neutral" to "OK" to "YES" to "I need this." Or some such.

As for planning a scene, it's a pretty simple matter to say " I saw something about [activity/device] and it seemed pretty hot." As opposed to " we should do X then you should Y and I'll Z while you W etc etc etc"

That said, topping from the bottom is only a problem if your partner is the Dom. As mentioned, there is no objective right/wrong (outside of abuse). I know a Dom who orders his sub to top him as their primary kink activity. It's what they like. It's fine.

 

I'm mostly not allowed to tell my Wife what I want. It's mainly what she wants. Certain things I can discuss with her as long as it's not sex related.

 

Let's not kid ourselves that everything in the way of bondage, D/s, and denial is just an illusion built on the consent and fantasies of willing participants. In all instances, the submissive holds the power to stop a scene or punishment at any time. And in spite of that, the submissive is often the one requesting more, which has caused classic punishment methods to be referred to as "funishments".

Just look at another chastity-related paradox in which a caged sub begs to be unlocked and modifies his daily behavior in order to earn it. The domme/keyholder finally offers a release after a week, only for the sub to decline and suggest his lockup continue because he envisioned a month-long sentence. In the opposite situation where the domme tries to enforce a longer lockup than what the sub had in mind, they quickly enter the non-consensual realm and the game ends right then and there.

My point is that chastity relationships in the real world are nothing more than roleplay. The locked partner has an obligation to make his desires and expectations crystal clear so as not to confuse his keyholder. At the same time, he maintains the right to end the chastity sentence if he truly no longer desires it. I'm sure this applies to everyone on this site, no matter how far we try to immerse ourselves in the illusion.

Please do not do this. I don't think "passive-aggressive" is the right description here, but it's along the same lines. You'd essentially be making a long-winded hint that, as you said, is complicated. The best outcome is that she immediately asks you for clarification, which is no different than you just telling her directly in the first place. On the other hand, she might end up really confused, be left trying to guess what you're after, and "force" you into a chastity arrangement that ultimately will not be very satisfying or sustainable for either of you. This in turn may lead to a lot of frustration and hopefully ends with the direct discussion that you should have had from the start.

I think your heart is in the right place by desperately trying to not top from the bottom. But there's a reason why people in the kink community always talk about how communication is key... paradoxes be damned.

 

I like the way @locked_top put it above in post #3.

It's not easy to explain to someone, who is basically vanilla, that you want her to have what she wants and that providing what she wants makes you happy.

I think it's perfectly OK to communicate the things you like to her, as long as she has the confidence to make her own choices about what to actually do. It just takes a while to build that confidence and her understanding that you want to be controlled by her.

I'm not there yet with my lady but I do feel that she is growing in her self-confidence and enjoying that. She is very aware of all the things I like and I always make sure to give a positive reaction to whatever she chooses to do.

A certain amount of topping from the bottom is inevitable to start with in the hope that she'll eventually want to top from the top and keep you at the bottom.

Good thread !!

 

I've been saying this for years and I doubt many would argue with it. Just be aware that what you finish up with may be nothing like you originally envisaged.

 

I agree with so much of the above and it's how it has been in my?! FLR-conforming to type, I the male introduced her to the concepts/ideas and then 'handed over the baton' more or less-it has naturally progressed to no topping from the bottom permitted-in fact unless permission is given, even my movements are controlled and any type of non-passive behavior during times when she is using me for her pleasure (beating, bj's, fondling etc) then play can abrubtly cease-so you do indeed hand over the baton but hopefully it's understood that turning the baton back on you now and again is fun and desired!

 

Isn't that the truth!

 

So for example last night after oral worship and then piv with an orgasm for me and lots for her of course(bye bye 90 day chastity goal!-oh well! Tomorrows another fresh start)-after a bit of downtime she decide to get her crop out and gave me a real whacking all over that she thorougly and very much enjoyed delivering and that i had absolutely no choice but to take until she had finished-So i guess i have awakened and have been living with a dominant woman allright!-last night i would have dozed off to sleep but this is how it is now-topping from the bottom is long gone and indeed no longer necessary-what is necessary however is to be the best husband i can be and try not to piss her off!

 

I don't recall ever saying to my wife 'it would be hot if you waited until i've just exfoliated until you get your cane out for 10 strokes, that way it would really f'k*ng hurt'- (10 always means 10 good strokes for her that she finds satisfying, it's always more in reality, she just uses the count to mess with me)-but she knows it hurts more and she enjoys D/D so that is now something that can happen if she wants it too-i don't recall the last time i had any say in it tbh

 

I did somewhat naively imagine it would be caning sessions at our mutual arrangement and possibly being spanked over her knee (never happens)-so yes i've finished up with something that I didn't totally envisage i.e. I didn't imagine she would enjoy DD on her terms and when she feels like it, quite so much as she does

 

However as i was being blown in the lounge after dinner an hour ago, as this was an act that was also done as she wanted dessert i guess and was at her behest, i couldn't help but reflect on the fact that whilst i have lost all expecations of a bj, they still happen and every one of them for the last 3 years is because i have 'handed over control of the baton'-hope i'm not oversharing but the FLR is tumblr-worthy at this time and is working so well (must be the lockdown!)

 

I was so fortunate that I met my madam when I did, and we both shared a love of bdsm and fetishes, and as chastity was all her idea, I never had to suggest anything to her, she knew the first time she saw a chastity device that she wanted to lock my cock up!

 

I'd suggest that there's likely to be a third view - that of those wives or girlfriends who are a bit more resistant to being the one that has to bear the burden of being in control and making decisions on what to do or not do. These women who, perhaps, prefer a more equal relationship together with those men who find that the reality doesn't match their fantasy.

In this case, topping from the bottom is likely to have to remain the way forward.

 

First of all, be patient.

Second, communicate your desires but realize that's exactly what they are. Don't get too kinky too fast. People need time to assimilate new information. Pressuring them will cause them to shut down. For example, I had my first conversation about chastity with my wife in Jan 2017. We only began 24/7 longterm chastity in July 2019. (see rule 1) There were starts and stops along the way.

Next, focus on what she can hope to get from indulging your fantasy. Your wife will most likely be willing to give it a try just to make you happy. That's great but you are still calling the shots. If you want to experience chastity in its totality, you have to submit. She has to see value in your arrangement and actively assume control. This is sustainable only if she is benefitting from it enough to make it desirable for her to continue. It's important that YOU understand this. See that her needs are met just as she is seeing yours are.

Lastly, learn to be grateful for what she gives you. Understand that there are things she may not be comfortable doing and you may just have to forego them. In time she may change her mind as she becomes more comfortable. You continue your submission and make sure she gets what she needs.

In closing, there is so much more to chastity than the sexual thrill of locking your dick up. It's true that's the bait that draws us men in but it can foster an amazing intimacy and deepen your relationship.

Good luck!

Grayfelix

Here's some reading that looks at chastity from a woman's point of view as a way to. a better relationship.
And before you throw this at your wife to read, you should understand that the author also advocates domestic discipline. My advise to you: read the welcome page and reflect on it. Be prepared to do your part.
https://toy4her.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/better-spouses-welcome-to-better-spouses/

 

We've been at this for awhile and have recently stumbled on something new. Initially, we did the lists/contracts release dates but it seemed un-natural. I learned about topping from the bottom etc and stayed away from that. Over the years, she's grown both comfortable and confident and it's great. I think my imagination is more active than hers and recently, I started writing stories. While it could be called topping from the bottom, I made it clear that they are ideas not demands and it was all still up to her.

She really liked the stories and has gotten off a few times while reading them. She has incorporated bits and pieces and it's been fun to write them. I try to get in her head a little and she said that I've gotten a lot of it right. Here's the most recent example:

She lay in bed, thinking about the day ahead. She was really looking forward to getting out of the house. Soon, she'd take a shower and pick out something nice to wear. Boots or heels, she wasn't quite sure she wanted to catch his eye. She had him waiting for her downstairs. She'd texted him that he was to wait for her and that she'd shower alone. She knew that pushing him away turned him on almost as much as an edging session. After 4 months, she could turn him on almost instantly and she loved having that control. She thought of locking the door and reaching for the wand. It was going to be her day after all.

Later, she came down stairs and she could hear him inhale a little when he saw her. "Help me get these things in the car" she told him. He opened the door for her and she sat down, facing him. "Get on your knees" she demanded. She tapped his balls with her foot. "Slide those aside so I can see my target and then grab your ankles". He complied and she started kicking his balls, softly at first and then harder and harder. He moaned and tried to be quiet but she want to hear him so she didn't let up. Finally she stopped.

"Come here" she said as she leaned over. "Listen carefully. This is my day and I own you. You've been doing okay but you'll do better. If I want you in the fucking closet dont complain about the lock. When I'm gone, go upstairs and on the bed is a pair of my panties. You'll notice the perfume smell. After your shower, put them on and remember, I own you. I'll text you later with some things you're going to do. I've also hidden a pill and MAYBE, I'll tell you where it is as I might feel like really torturing you."

She knew it drove him crazy when she whispered in his ear. "I'll be home at 10 to 5 just in time for the zoom. I'll expect a martini at precisely 4:58. You wont dissppoint me. Now, stand in front of me as I drive away and remember, I own you."

 

Oh now I would most definitely say that! Lol

Or, more to the point of this thread, I would just suggest it and then let her stash it away for future reference whenever she feels like it, and with whatever twists and turns she may wish to add. And that's how you get past the problem at hand. Yeah you suggested it, but not like this!

You should tell her all your fantasies, or better yet write them down so she can use them against you later. But by doing it her way and in her timing. That's what's so great, the whole relationship becomes her creation, her masterpiece. She's the writer and producer. She gets to write the script and developed the characters however she likes. According to her vision for the two of you.
And after all, isn't that what you want? (Nods head slowly)

 

The above was supposed to be in answer to the quote:

don't recall ever saying to my wife 'it would be hot if you waited until i've just exfoliated until you get your cane out for 10 strokes, that way it would really f'k*ng hurt