Is it serving or is it a trade?

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by L-u-c-y, Jun 14, 2018.

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  1. L-u-c-y
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    Do you see submitting to your partner as serving her, or do you see the whole thing as a trade? (you do things for her, she does things for you). If it's the latter, isn't that just a normal give and take relationship?
     
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  2. SubSnuggler
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    A 'trade' isn't 'submission', which I assume is your point...
     
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  3. jshackleton2016
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    I try to make it a trade sometimes, but that never works. Submission keeps everyone the happiest around here. What makes it great and work is that she is so worthy of my submission.
     
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  4. L-u-c-y
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    It always surprises me that people have different views of what submission is. Some say they want to submit, then say "What do I get?"

    I'm not saying that is wrong or right, just that is surprises me.
     
  5. tenshi
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    I think every healthy relationship requires give and take. But I don't think of give and take as trading services–you do things for your partner because you care for them. And (at least for me) whether you're submissive, whether you're dominant, or whether you're just vanilla, you still have to have care and affection for your partner.
     
  6. Sissy Meg
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    I see it as a partnership and also as a journey. If we aren't in it together and both in agreement on whats going on, then I feel submission and serving isn't realistic.

    I don't necessarily need an act or "thing" in return; i.e. i don't need teasing, orgasm, new panties, etc. But I DO need consent, involvement, discourse, relationship, interaction in return. I am still getting "something" for my servitude, just not what the average male gets; that's ok with me because that gets me farther and makes me happier in life.

    So from my perspective there is a "trade" in the most technical sense, I'm getting a superior, guidance, attention, interaction, acceptance of my offering, in exchange I'm providing submission to her desires, entertainment, work, etc. But this is not the "spirit" of the relationship. I'm kind of a spirit of the law parson - to nerd out we'll say chaotic good or chaotic neut.

    All this is entirely dependent on a the agreement between us as consenting adults, so we are partners in this, it wouldn't work without both of us..

    In our case since we're married, it's also a journey about growing and exploring together. Learning boundaries, learning new secrets, new pleasures, new gifts, and new sacrifices.

    That's my 2cents
     
  7. Cuckster
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    Cuckster Long term member

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    Definitely not a trade.
    When it works, a symbiosis.
    Nothing considered, nothing negotiated, nothing spoken.
    Just two people naturally complementing each other.
     
  8. SubSnuggler
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    You can still have a partnership and you can still have give and take.

    All I ask is that she listens to my opinions, suggestions, feelings, etc. Then she makes the final decisions and I deal with it. The trick is to submit to a person that is willing to LISTEN and seriously consider the best interests of yourself and others.
     
  9. luckyhubby83
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    a trade is a accurate description for some D/S relationships, however the D is always able to refuse to "pay" for what they received. which is half the fun in itself. never knowing what each day will bring for the submissive.
    my KH knows exactly what makes me tick and anything she does that excites me is always received with he utmost gratitude. never expected or demanded of her no matter what is asked of me. its taken quite a while to comprehend this, and i am still working on being more selfless. if a submissive expects something in return for their devotion and loyalty, they will end up miserable and always feeling like there needs to be more. thats no way to go about all this IMO
     
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  10. Mascara^Snake
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    Submission as I see it is a relationship between two people in which each person is dependent upon and receives reinforcement, whether beneficial or detrimental, from the other.
    Mutualism or indeed Symbiosis as mentioned above.
     
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  11. chrissysub
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    I completely see it as service and submission to Her, honestly. However, as a big believer in the virtue of selfishness, and while i'd like my service to be totally altruistic and selfless, FLR feels right and good to me and makes me feel good when I am under heel and owned. My 2 cents, anyway.
     
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  12. Boyzer0
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    I can get the trade from the stand point of;

    The Submissive is trading a degree(depending on how strict the Dom/Domme is) of their freedom for a structure they desire in their life, but it's a willing trade/sacrifice. But it should be remembered that(assuming this is a healthy relationship) the Dom/Domme also gets the structure they desire from their life. So whilst some could see it as a trade others could easily see it as fulfilling roles in the relationship which suit both parties.
     
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  13. Mash2214
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    Is it one sided serving or is it a trade off. This is part of a relationship between two people. Why did they enter into this agreement. A Mistress can’t just lockup anyone she wants and say Serve Me the person serving has to want to be in that position. He needs to get something out of the relationship. The question is what does he need.? Everyone needs something different. Maybe it’s just knowing that she’s holding his key and controlling him, that’s enough for a perfect happy relationship. In my opinion if a relationship is only one sided it will end like a lot of marriages do. Both people need to receive something to make it successful. This may not even seem like very much and to others it may appear that he’s receiving nothing but to him he’s totally content and receiving everything by just serving his Mistress
     
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  14. Mash2214
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    To further add to my previous comment. What others see and what goes on behind doors or in the bed room is totally different. For example

    If you would see Miss Shelly and me in public you would see me opening the door for her , pushing In her chair as we sit down for supper, having I nice conversation without arguing or fighting. What you wouldn’t see is ,me locked ,shaved,wearing panties,with a red bum. You also wouldn’t see that we’re both happy and content in our relationship, or would you sort of see it.
     
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  15. Mojoman
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    To see it as a trade assumes that each party is only interested in what they can get out in exchange for the least input. The D/s relationship we have doesn't feel like that at all. It is definitely give and take for us. Lovingly given and gratefully received.
     
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  16. Mash2214
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    I totally agree those days seem to be forgotten. Just a couple days ago I was at the store and two ladies were also going in so I held the door open for them to enter before me. One looked at me and said “ Do you want something ? “ I was a little surprised and responded by saying “No I’m happy just holding the door for you “ the look on her face was priceless, she didn’t see that one coming lol
     
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  17. Digital
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    I think the reason that lines get blurry around servitude and submission is because in the world of fantasy they are forms of trade from a position with little bargaining power. When you're in a position of weakness you may be forced beg offering submission and servitude for your safety in return. What has become a problem is people thinking they're in a position of power once they have submitted.
     
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  18. Alceste
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    I think there is always some give and take. In a relationship context, it is even more explicit.

    Perhaps I am cynical, but I do not believe in altruism. Everybody gets something in return for their actions.
     
  19. filltee
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    I see it as a mutual thing.. each getting perhaps different things out of each others actions and reactions roles and dynamics being a part of any relationships between people to a degree. Defining relationships within TTTWD then 'a symbiotic relationship' does appear to be the phrase that covers it best for me.
     
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  20. DMDS
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    I think personally there is kinda two ways to look at it and that involves splitting the term 'trade' into two types active and passive trades.

    A passive trade would be the general relationship, even if you have a relationship that is only BDSM based then the Dom/me enjoys having someone submit to them and the sub enjoys submitting to somebody. In that sense the trade and the submission goes hand in hand as both parties are doing something that they enjoy while also doing something for their partner that they enjoy.

    The active trades come in when someone does something that they don't directly enjoy but their partner does, this could be anything really but essentially where they are getting nothing from it. Whether or not it is a trade then depends on the relationship in question, basically whether or not it is a case of "You do this regardless and get nothing in return" or "You do this and I will do this other thing for you". However the difficulty defining this one comes from a subs general enjoyment of submission, if a sub specifically enjoys submitting (as opposed to just enjoying certain aspects of it) then the trade part of that is not required, however if the sub only enjoys some parts of submitting but not the submission in general then the trade would be part of getting them to do things.

    Hopefully that makes sense but that is kinda my view on the distinction there.
     
  21. paulie slave
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    paulie slave Locked house husband

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    If true submission were defined as a one way relationship where the top gets what she wants and gives the bottom nothing then it would only attract bottoms that get a kick out of that particular situation. Therein lies his motivation. By inaction, the top is still giving him what he wants.
     
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  22. simplysub
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    We've never gotten into using "serving"--I'm submissive, she's dominant. Whether within or external to the lifestyle everything is discussed and you have to keep things balanced and real. The big decisions that will affect us long term are always discussed and decided together. Likewise in the lifestyle arena there's discussion and never really any surprises. But as our FLM has progressed she takes more and more of the lead. Whether in or out of the lifestyle things that could be a coin flip as to what to do...in those cases she has the last word.

    You've got to keep your sense of humor. We've done some joking and had some good natured back and forth on "trading" But a word of caution there...going back to when she was considering a VCH my mouth got a wee bit ahead and seems I may have said I'll get a PA if you get it. Talk about a memorable day
     
  23. b2please
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    Submission:
    It seems like it needs to be "win-win" to be a good idea.

    Also, if you "trade" with another who has much more power, they tend to get much more of what they want in the deal, and can more easily veto what they don't like. So a "trade" doesn't mean the 2 have similar power to negotiate, decide, control, etc. Still can have major D & S dynamics.
     
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  24. sissy_connie
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    sissy_connie Long term member

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    Be careful what you wish for :)
     
  25. Retired
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    I think I view it as something in-between your two choices. I do not serve her and do not expect anything in return other than what she decides she likes done within the particular fetish we are playing. It is an exchange, but a power exchange only in the area of our sex life. We try not to let our fetishes bleed into the non sexual part of our marriage and after 46 years of success, we think we are doing it the way that is best for us.

    Psychologically I could not view D/s as tit for tat. That takes the dominance part out of D/s. I simply view it as permitted someone to sexually dominate me. What they provide me is up to them and no one keeps score. Hope that this makes sense but it has worked for us so well that even in our late 60's we are still going at it. :)
     
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