I was replying to another thread when a question occured to me that I think has not been discussed for a while. Topping from the bottom when if ever do others think this is acceptable? KHs and the denied will probably have different views on this and I imagine that from both camps there will be both some with strong feelings and some others thinking it might beok in some circumstances. And of course there is the associated question what might constitute topping from the bottom?
Thats a tough question. There are so many different ways to play the chastity game. Depends on the situation. Depends on the couple. Some see chastity strictly as the key holder decides everything and the man has no say, so anything he says would be considered topping from the bottom. I like to think that in a loving relationship they both work towards mutual goals and there is no such thing as topping. But if you signed up for a flr then you really kinda need to keep your mouth shut lol. Besides I think we all know topping from the bottom will really only work on a naive key holder. Once she realizes the power she has and decides on her own that she will not put up with topping or doesn't want to, then it becomes irrelevant.
i syas a lot cos i chats a lot but Mistress don't take no notice of me much and if She gets annoy with me im sent into the kitchen.
I'm not allowed to suggest any sexual activity but I am allowed to suggest possible sexual activities. That basically means I can show my Wife a picture, gif or video on Tumblr of something I would like or I suspect she would like, and I can say what do you think about doing this? I cannot say can we do this sex thing now please. The first is communicating, the second is topping from the bottom. Topping the bottom is manipulating a person or situation to get what you want to happen. In a healthy relationship communication is critical.
In my relationship I am free, like @Jasmic68 to express my desires. She is aware of my kinks, my desires, and things I might be willing to try. What she does with that information is up to her. There are things that have changed that obviously she doesn't want to do and we don't anymore. When we first dated she went down on me a lot. She hasn't put her mouth on me in awhile and that was only for a minute. She knows I like it, and if we aren't doing it anymore, it's because she would rather not do it. She has pegged me a few times, but not in a long time. Therefore it must not be something that interests her. She knows it turns me on, so lack of pegging means she doesn't want to. I send her pics and memes and sometimes she will ask if I'm calling the shots. I alway tell her no, just throwing it out there, and she will send back a grin. The truth is, once she realized her power and my desire for her to exert it, we don't do anything she doesn't want to do, and if there is something she does that's really not her thing, it is something she WANTS to do for me and is giving her pleasure by giving me a treat. Some don't think the dom ever does something they aren't into, wrong, they do it when they want, on their own terms, and just like us, derive pleasure by making a loved one happy. Even doms enjoy being a source of pleasure. Especially when they know this isn't something they have to do, it's totally their decision.
It's a very fine line if your topping from the bottom or just communicating. When the sub becomes totally committed to his Mistress the suggestions and comments become less and less but may never totally stop. Every relationship is different. Also most men have a harder time than they think giving up control. We say we're submissive but it takes a lot of time and commitment to totally submit to anything and everything your Mistress orders you to do. What ever works for you and your Mistress is right for you. Personally in our relationship I say or comment less and less. I trust my Mistress with my life so I commit to her more and more but I'll probably never get to 100%. 98 or 99% sounds good to me.
When I have introduced new partners to TTTWD I have almost inevitably found my self topping from the bottom to some extent or other until she has developed the inclination skills and demenour to take control once that happens I apologise for having done it and stop doing it. I think there is some justification in that...it more helping/guiding than topping I believe and the intention is pure enough I 'm thinking. If I wanted to be in charge I'd self-lock all the time and that is not what I want.
It's a fine line, and also goes right to the core of what turns me on. If I have to tell you, you aren't "making" me any more. I want someone asking me to do things, telling me to do things, and I want it to be their idea. Like telling her to lock me up, I don't want to be locked, I want her to lock me for as long as she wants. I don't want to clean up after orgasms, but it is acceptable once she tells me that is what is happening. I don't want to get a wooden paddle to my ass, but accepting her discipline makes me happy that she feels comfortable and loves me enough to help me and us move past small infractions. It's all an odd dance.
You are totally correct but to achieve 100% submission 100% of the time. This is our goal but realistically unless your personality is totally removed their will be times when it may still happen. That's just my Opinion.
I believe its perception that is the key. If your keyholder feels you are being bullied into doing something they don't want to do, then you are. If they are willing to listen to your desires and act on them if and when they choose it's not. I guess unless you are in some sort of d/s relationship where the dom has no interest in giving pleasure,rewarding behavior, or taking pleasure in giving a gift. I would hope my kh, would like to see and provide for my pleasure, not because she feels obligated to, but because she wants to, and it would make her happy to give. Like a giving a child a Christmas gift, you are doing it because you enjoy their reaction, you love them, and their happiness gives you pleasure. I don't think giving a loved one moments of happiness is a submissive act, it's an act of love not defined by our sexual roles. Telling them they must give, acting aweful if you don't receive your gift, expecting a certain gift, are all examples of topping from the bottom that I believe are unacceptable...in any relationship, not just d/s.
In cases where the KH or "top" is not naturally dominant or just lacking in imagination then topping from the bottom is acceptable as long as it is clearly communicated, not manipulative, and both parties are happy with the situation. Hopefully over time, the top will start topping from top.
Like @LockedPom has mentioned what about when you have someone in charge who is a lock and forget type of person, or in the early stages of the development of a D/s relationship when you are working out as a couple what you want and how you want it? What about the people who treat chastity as more of a game than as a lifestyle? The problem with such a rigid view as your reply is there is no description of what you actually define as topping from the bottom. It could be the case that we actually agree, that what you mean is a discussion about fantasies, about wishes and desires is ok, but a manipulative approach to make these things actually occur is wrong. Or it could be that what you mean is that a sub is never, ever allowed to say anything about what they want, ever ever ever, in which case we do not agree. Unlike @Mash2214 I am not really worried if my different viewpoint offends you. As many have said you have the right to offend and to be offended, you don't have the right to never be offended.
I think this is a very hard question to answer , as what one person considers topping from the bottom another may not .we are all different and may hold differing opinions , so I can only give mine which is to communicate , suggest and give an opinion are all fine , but trying to force a point or manipulate things or a situation are not , My mistress has often said that she does not want a yes man all the time and values my thoughts , suggestions and input but how when and if she uses any of it is up to her and I am totally happy with that as the final outcome is and always will be her decision as my mistress
OK, off topic, but I've got to ask, what is TTTWD? Really reassuring to read the posts here from people with a lot more experience than me. I think I've been overly hard on myself on this point. I do suggest, discuss and provide feedback on what I like. For example I suggested discipline spankings and started keeping a lit of things I'd done wrong. I'd wait for awhile after the punishment, but then tell her what I thought of what she had done and what I thought I deserved. This gave her the confidence to gradually grow in strength and power to the point it was actually punishment. Be careful what you wish for . So was I topping from on bottom or just helping my newbie KH learn the ropes?
Since women are not born with whips in their hand or leather boots, they have to learn from someone and unless they are professional Mistresses, they learn from submissive males. I know that I had to teach every woman who sexually dominated me. I had to explain the use of the various impact toys and how hard to kick a man's balls, etc.. It took a lot of time to teach them since I did it by baby steps. A fun spanking turns into spanking with a hairbrush because my her hand hurts from spanking me. Then comes bondage so I do not try to avoid her blows and blindfolds so I cannot anticipate the blows. From there we go to pinching nipples which leads to nipple clips. Fast forward 2-3 years and she is burning me with cigarettes, doing CBT and whipping me until I bled. Even did knife play. So I think that most women need/want to be instructed on how to dominate their man and who better to teach them than their man. I would top from the bottom until the woman was proficient in what she was doing. Then I would keep my mouth shut. By then I trusted her to keep my safety and health paramount while knowing my limits, respecting them and immediately stop what she is doing if I utter my safe word. In reality, the sub has all the power. The top cannot dominate a sub without their permission and can stop what is going on by uttering a single word. So who really has the control?
Ummm the person that isn't tied up with a wooden paddle in their hand. Just teasing. I get the whole esoteric you don't own things your things own you, Who has control? Like trust, control is given and not taken, and just as easily lost. There is no one that is forced. Even doing things we don't care for, we do so willingly because we want to please the one we chose to give control to. Just because I can take the control back, doesn't mean she doesn't possess it. Can suggest till I'm blue in the face, that doesn't mean any of it will ever happen. My ability to use my safe word or quit all together is the only thing I can control. That and a few hard limits that we discussed before we even started. Are people able to manipulate others? Sure. Top or bottom, old or young, man or woman, manipulation to get what you want is part of human nature. If you are really good at it I imagine you could get someone to do anything and then be convinced it was their idea. When I hear the term topping from the bottom, I get a sense of bullying and forcing your will onto someone else.
But what if what gets you off is your desire for her to wield control? What if what you want is to be dominated? That seems to me to be where topping from the bottom comes into play. Ultimately you have to hand the controls over and sit back and take the result, like it or not. Either that or give up on your original fantasy of being dominated. I like @Vinny description of the gradual process although I don't plan to ever go that far (man is there stuff you haven't done ). We just did our first successful milking yesterday. Later in that day when we had some alone time I talked with her about it. Told her how it made me feel, what she did that I liked and she shared that she didn't like the toy we used and wanted something easier to handle. Over time I suspect there will be less and less need for me to provide that kind of feedback, but how would she know otherwise?
This Thing That We Do meaning most or all of the activities people get up to related to this site It would be applicable I suppose to use the phrase TTTWD on any site that has a focus... almost hobby, sport, pastime, activity
Lol, in my world it pertains to something else. I wonder how many of my relatives would freak out if they knew "ttwd" was referring to anything here!
My wife asked me what "topping from the bottom" was...when I explained it to her, she said "oh, you mean like us". Yes, I'm the kinky one, who got us started on this journey, but she would never do anything she didn't want to do, and I think she enjoys making all the decisions. In the past, she usually got her way, but not without an argument from me, Now she get her own way, and I just tell her what a great choice she made. All she has to do, is make me horny and submissive all the time,, and all I want to do is make her happy all the time.