Is it topping form the bottom if......

Discussion in 'Female led relationships' started by blebo, Nov 21, 2022.

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  1. blebo
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    blebo Junior Member

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    My wife had agreed to a wife led relationship and is fully onboard with all the ideas of keeping me locked, controlling the finances and letting me do all the chores, punishing bad behaviour etc.

    She had fully admitted that she doesn't know how to carryout her "part" in the relationship and the lack of "knowledge" is affecting her confidence.

    She is vanilla and will no research the subject like I have. I am fully aware ands appreciate she is joining my fantasy

    Would scripting out a few scenarios for reviewing my day be considered bad. I really need ideas as does my keyholder on how to get her started, a framework to grow on and develop.

    Any suggestions are welcomed.
     
  2. true42
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    true42 Owned member

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    Your responses to her will make or break her, at least until she gains some confidence.

    The first thing to remember is that she's always right.

    The second thing to remember is that when there is any doubt, you need to revisit the first thing.
     
  3. Deleted member 97060
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    Let her do the research and go at her speed
     
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  4. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    Captions may be a way to help with what's going on in your mind. Make them picturless if she prefers
     
  5. Byrdie
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    Byrdie Junior Member
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    She’s a female. She’s leading the relationship. So, she’s enacting her role in a Female Led Relationship.

    The rest is gravy.
     
  6. Shimone
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    Shimone Long term member

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    I actually do not like what I am reading in your openingpost as it much more looks like an femdom-roleplay gone wet-dream-thing than an actual FLR. And with that said roleplay in itself is something bad, but if roleplay is what you aree looking for please call it as what it is.

    But as I do not know you let's say I have misunderstood your posting.

    You say she is open to it, but inexperienced and would not read herself into the topic as you have. I can not blame her for that, because you read yourself into much of it, because it was your fantasy for long. She can not attach herself to those topics which makes crossreading the internet about those topics even less attractive as it already might be for many women.

    So why do not try another maybe more effective way and get her someone to talk to about those topics. Just look for a local munch, maybe contact the hosts / organization team beforehand an I am sure they are happy to take you in. That way she can talk to other women who can give her firsthand experience on what to expect and how to start.

    Of course it might take some effort to go to a munch for the first time, but if she is willing to give it a try i am sure it would turn out to be the best choice.
     
  7. King Hippo
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    King Hippo Long term member

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    something you might need to remember is… her making a decision for you to do specific things might be what she wants. Even if it isn’t your ideal FLR…
     
  8. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    Forget your kink fantasies for now. What are her needs.
     
  9. starflyer
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    starflyer Junior Member

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    i'd do her a long reference list
     
  10. IB-Chaste
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    IB-Chaste Chastity Superman.

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    I’m confused. Does she not know how to keep you locked, control your finances or punish your bad behaviour?
    Or, does she not know how you want her to keep you locked, control your finances and punish your behaviour?

    As, if you’ve had the conversation about doing so then it’s pretty much over to her. You can’t dictate the scenario otherwise she’s not being true to herself and there will be no longevity in this situation. She got to find her own way over time.

    My wife struggled with it all initially. Didn’t know how to make this work, was trying to fulfill a fantasy.
    5 months later she’s completely denied me a full orgasm, expects everything from me and canes me if I’m not compliant.
    She did all this from banning me making any suggestion whatsoever. I got way more than I bargained for!
     
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  11. Madam Darling
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    halp! She agreed to lead the relationship, but she isn't doing it right!

    Seriously, though. It sounds like you're not looking for your wife to lead the relationship, but you're wanting your wife to behave like a pro Domme and play a part that doesn't come naturally to her.

    For most men who have this as their fantasy, they look at captions that were 100%, without question, written by men who hyper-fixate and fantasize about this exact same thing. They spend hours per day thinking up different scenarios and imagining how hot it would be if the woman said, "x." Then when your wife won't say, "x," and you ask for her to say things like, "x," you wonder why she won't feel confident in playing along.

    As a result, the woman typically feels as though they aren't good enough, and they will never meet the standards you are looking for. And that's because the "research" guys do is looking for the hottest possible captions/posts/forum topics and wonder why their wives won't spend hours per day thinking about this stuff, too.

    This is just like someone doing hours and hours of research on what an LSD trip would be like, then when they actually take it themselves, they panic because things are how they're "supposed to be."

    Let your wife lead in a way that makes her comfortable. Do nothing except everything she says without question. Make her feel confident in doing this for you by just validating her requests, instead of hoping for something "better."
     
  12. cogman
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    cogman Long term member

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    Hmmm I think that may be a little harsh, while I hear what you are saying Madam Darling, and it is true for many men here, myself included as I have been guilty many a time of imagining how it should be then feeling different about the reality. In this case his partner is looking for information.

    In a ideal universe id give her material to read which may help her along the path that she wants. But depending on your relationship Id give her material written by a third party.

    In my case, well I get threatened all the time but at the end of the day we pretty much have normal sex except I am locked up all the time (except for sex). It took me a long time to accept thats how my partner likes it...she likes me locked without all the other kinky stuff, and she lets me out for sex...I do get the occasional paddle, and she does enjoy using the remote dick zapper, but orgasm denial she just doesn't get off on it.

    But the real secret is to not to sulk if things dont go your way. My partner has a extremely fine tuned sulk detector, even if I try and hide it she will seek it out, then bad things happen. As Madam says above its really got to be her way and as she develops her knowledge and confidence you will know how to respond.
     
  13. Madam Darling
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    It didn't really sound like she was looking for information at all when he said, "She is vanilla and will no research the subject like I have."

    I also have 2 men in my inbox from the last week who are married, but they're talking to their wives about letting them play with me because they aren't satisfied with their spouse's efforts (which I won't do, anyway). So I'm reacting to this OP, but also the 2 in my inbox from this week, plus about 10 since I've been on here. And that's not counting all the threads on here that talk about how their spouses are "willing to try, but how can I get her to be meaner?" Or, "how do I get her to be more confident? I keep asking her to let me out, and she does. How do I explain that's not what I want?"

    This is just another thread about a "sub" topping from the bottom because he's not getting what he's been fantasizing about for years after porn, captions, and forums full of information she's got no interest in.

    And this isn't meant to be shitting on anyone, I'm just getting annoyed with "subs" having expectations that they need to trick or coerce their "Dommes" into under the guise of making her a "better, more confident partner."
     
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  14. cogman
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    cogman Long term member

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    Again, perhaps a little harsh, it is true that we men do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about this stuff, whereas our respective keyholders we are lucky if they give it the time of day. Clearly your partner fortunate that you are prepared to spend more time engaged in this dynamic than many.

    Every one is different and everyone develops down a different path. I am aware of how someone like you would get bombed with a zillion messages a day and have the shits with it, I really don't blame you as many must be pathetic.

    I am most certainly not you but really?...a forum is to ask questions and learn from others. To categorize this thread as "Just another thread" is a little unforgiving, that is your prerogative. I do agree with what you said, just not the castigation part when he is trying to learn and gain experience.
     
  15. Madam Darling
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    And again, I recognize that I may be overly sensitive right now because so many guys have literally said something like, "my wife isn't good enough, and she's agreed that I can talk to you."

    What I do is tell them that I won't play with them, but if she wants any advice or guidance in any way, I'd love to be able to chat with her as often as she'd like. And I'll extend that same offer to @blebo here.

    I've come across as annoyed and frustrated because I am annoyed and frustrated. But if you would like to message me about ideas "on how to get her started, a framework to grow on and develop," I would be happy to see if I can help you two out. But only if she is on board with the effort. This still kind of reads to me as "how do I get her interested," or "how do I make her dominant," and if that is the case, I would not be inclined to continue.

    But I feel, as I've recently been introduced to this lifestyle, that I can possibly articulate the viewpoint from someone who is brand new to this, but who has always been somewhat dominant. I'm told that I've come a long way in a short time, and if I can somehow help to bridge a gap in communication or interpret styles of play to help find common ground, I would be happy to.
     
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  16. Suewiang
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    Suewiang Long term member

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    Many seem to try and manipulate there ladies and often wonder why it goes badly wrong.
    To me it seems so many times we read how can I change her or influence her or get her more interested and then you get to read all the fantasies they hope for.
    Seems quite bizarre to want to manipulate your partner or Dom in these ways and is for sure a huge turn off for them and a very quick way for them to loose interest
     
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  17. IB-Chaste
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    IB-Chaste Chastity Superman.

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    For me, this is what every ‘sub’ on here needs to acknowledge from the offset. (me included, I made mistakes)

    I wouldn’t say that you have come a long way in short period of time. I would analyse that putting your man in chastity has allowed you the confidence and freedom to grow your natural disposition. It has lit the fire. It works well for you as underneath that’s who you always were.

    My life in chastity has aligned itself well to the Dom/sub-esque positioning as my wife too was always the more dominant of us.
    For the most part she lacked sexual confidence, having me take a backseat brought this out of her. I didn’t take a backseat by choice, that was he ruling if I wanted to remain chaste.
    That doesnt mean that my wife has suddenly become more sexually charged and we have mad passionate domination sessions each evening. Most of her control revolves around her ensuring day to day life is catered for and her sexual needs (which as her default are non-orgasmic massages) are at the forefront of our play time.

    Initially, my wife needed an understanding of what sort of actions I wanted, or at least we needed the conversations around what pleasures I was into most. Over time her knowledge on that subject has grown exponentially.
    She also needed the understanding of why I wanted to be kept locked up and why that benefitted our relationship. That’s where this forum has been almost enlightening and without it our chastity lifestyle would it have come to fruition.

    Had I gone to her and told her this is what I want, this is how I want you do to it and this is how often it needs to occur… the cage would have remained as it was, an elephant in the room (or under the bed).

    So really what every ‘sub’ needs to acknowledge from the offset is that you can put a cage on your cock. You can have your partner agree to hold the keys… where that goes is ultimately an expression of who they are. They’re fantasy. You have to find a way to accept and incorporate that into your own chastity fantasy as that’s the person you married.

    Any rules given, any framework, any deviation from who they actually are. Well that’s just roleplay. Good for a weekend but has no longevity.
     
  18. Badwolf
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    Badwolf New member

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    I have been in a similar situation. Perhaps it’s topping from the bottom, perhaps it’s support and education, likely a bit of both. The main thing is to discuss it and support her. If she wants you to present her with information and ideas, or read her “how to” books or relevant stories, I see nothing wrong with that. Just be careful not to push her. She sets the pace, steers the direction, etc. You’ re there to support and encourage, not direct.
     
  19. cogman
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    cogman Long term member

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    I think you are a rare person Madam Darling,

    Thank you for explaining :) We are lucky to have you here :)
     
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  20. subcd8019
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    When I first brought up FLR with my wife I did have a specific type of FLR in mind. I wanted an FLR with kink. My wife doesn't want that type of FLR. She wants to lead the marriage and have me obey her. The success of the FLR depends on me serving her on her terms. If the mood is right I will politely ask for a spanking or tease and denial. Most of the time she says no.

    I do find ways to make the FLR kinky for me. After all the orgasm denial keeps me horny all the time so kink is on my mind. I will do things like clean the house nude with a butt plug in my ass. It makes being the maid fun. I find that obeying my wife now feels sexual to me.
     
  21. jemima
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    jemima maid for my Mistress

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    @blebo well you been on here a long time so i spose you know a lot anyways. but i wud not tell Her anything that She got to do cos She migt not like it so just do waht She tell you to do. and say thank You to Her as well.
     
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  22. Disciplined Boyfriend
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    On the surface it does appear to be topping from the bottom, but with that said, how are you ever going to get your vanillish partner onto the bottom step of the Femdom ladder unless you give her a push in the right direction.

    She doesn't know what to do, you kinda know what you want, so the two of you need to take a timeout and talk about what you're both prepared to do and be comfortable with. Make a list of subjects that you wish or don't wish to be part of the arrangement - examples, Finances - small day to day things, like shopping, pubs, clothing, she gets full say, big things i.e. car, house, insurances etc, you both get a say; your appearance; your contribution towards the domestic chores; control of your sexual releases; dinner. The list is almost endless.

    Its been said lots of times here - communications is the key, and until you get started and need another timeout or two to tweak, you're going to need to be very supportive and obedient.

    A
     
  23. Jay Sub
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    Jay Sub Married with Cage

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    We all need to listen to this. Even with the best of intentions it has the adverse effect. My wife is not into the research so I get it, but you have to be very careful not to overload. It's gonna take time. Show her with your actions not words. How can I expect to undo 23 years of not being an ideal husband overnight? I can't. And trust needs to be rebuilt.

    It has to be what she wants not what you want. To make it her own not yours. I have all sorts of kinky ideas and thoughts, but I realised what turned me on between us as a couple... Wasn't the kink, it was engagement. And before conjugal rights intercourse was largly irradiated, I am ashamed to say I was ignorant of the lack of engagement at times from her, and used kinky thoughts to get myself to my orgasm. Wanting my wife to do things with me that don’t turn her on, or engage her, is now a hard limit for me. If she got turned on by me being dominant with her that would turn me on. It doesn't so thoughts of whipping her have no place in my life with her, which we vowed is for life.

    She does get some pleasure from cropping me, which is great for the dynamic. Enjoys my frustration and likes that I am thankful for being made to wait, when she's done playing on her terms. Thinks it's better I come quicker, even if sometimes it's a bit too quick these days. Loves the extra help and attention.

    But these things, that she enjoys, don't directly relate to sexual pleasure for her. Sometimes she's frustrated because she wants to be horny but just can't. When she is in the right place, denying me goes out the window and she just wants good honest vanilla sex. Like our life. Perfectly normal equal partners 99% of the time...but that 1%..... That very important 1%....It is all hers!

    We communicate better, argue less, and when we do they end quickly (like me. Hehe!).
    She is still finding her feet 2 years on, but would never go back now.

    I wouldn't say her confidence has changed, there are too many other factors involved. Her guilt in denying me sex on my terms has changed though, because when she says "not tonight", I don't get pissy, I thank her. And that now allows for plenty of very erotic engaging encounters, that don't necessarily involve genitals.
     
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  24. enslavedbyc
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    enslavedbyc Junior Member

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    Topping from the bottom from my point of you doesn’t really exist. But that should be another post.


    There is nothing wrong with introducing her to the things you’re interested in related to Femdom. Then if she’s interested you can explore together one interest at a time to see what works and what doesn’t. Just figuring out what chastity device works well and how as a couple you’re going to use it could take a while. Controlling finances in a practical manner may also take some effort to figure out. Punishment dynamics can be great in a relationship but that also requires experimentation. My wife loves being in charge but if she develops a new interest she wants me to do all the research and present her with all of the options.She wants to know all of my fantasies, but it’s up to her what, when and how we explore things.
     
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  25. madams-sissysub
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    very well put.
     
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