Penis shrinkage

Discussion in 'Chastity and orgasm denial' started by Sameera, Jan 24, 2020.

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  1. Sameera
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    Sameera New member

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    In many blogs i have seen some men claiming that there penis shrinked in size after practicing chastity for a long time
    Is this true?
    Does it really happen?
     
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  2. Peter Rabbit
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    No. Not like what you’ve read.

    Here’s some research I found but it relates only to men whose nerve has been damaged by prostate surgery. Only after 6 months some lost 8% length and 9% girth. See the content below.



    Penile fibrosis

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ijir20093

    Historically, patients recovering from prostate cancer surgery have been advised that the return of erectile function (EF) can take from 6 to 18 months, or even longer.

    This cavernosal nerve disruption, even if brief, can lead to permanent smooth muscle damage and decreased long-term erectile function (EF).10, 11 Provoking an artificial erection during this time is thought to minimize cavernous tissue fibrosis, leading to potentially improved erection quality or decreased need for supplemental agents.

    The underlying hypothesis is that the artificial induction of erections shortly after surgery facilitates tissue oxygenation, reducing cavernosal fibrosis in the absence of nocturnal erections, potentially increasing the likelihood of preserving EF. Vacuum erection devices (VED), because of their ability to draw blood into the penis regardless of nerve disturbance, have become the centerpiece of penile rehabilitation protocols.

    This cavernosal nerve disruption, even if brief, can lead to permanent smooth muscle damage and decreased long-term erectile function (EF).10, 11 Provoking an artificial erection during this time is thought to minimize cavernous tissue fibrosis, leading to potentially improved erection quality or decreased need for supplemental agents.

    Much like other muscle groups, when its innervation is removed, cavernosal smooth muscle fibers degenerate sometime in the first 3–6 months.19

    Muscle fibrosis was negligible at 3 months, but encompassed one third of the fiber population by 7 months.

    “In view of the irreversible nature of fibrosis, this study suggested that clinical intervention to rescue denervated posterior cricoarytenoid muscle fibers should be delayed no longer than 7 months to improve the chances for full recovery.”

    Furthermore, patients after RP lose the 3–5 nocturnal erections per night, a source of high arterial oxygen tension for 1 to 3.5 h per night.25

    Apoptosis is also likely to play a role, as this has been shown in rat penile tissue after cavernous nerve denervation.20 Decreased smooth muscle tissue is accompanied by increased collagen type I and III deposition in rats after bilateral neurectomy and in men after RP.21, 22 It is possible that corporal smooth muscle apoptosis and increased collagen deposition seen in the rat nerve-crush model may also be present in human patients recovering from RP.

    The partial pressure of oxygen (pO2) within the corpus cavernosum is significantly higher in the erect vs the flaccid state.24 Furthermore, patients after RP lose the normal 3–5 nocturnal erections per night, a source of high arterial oxygen tension for 1 to 3.5 h per night.25 Lack of erections therefore leads to poorly oxygenated cavernosal tissue. Sustained hypoxia causes overexpression of transforming growth factor-β 1.26 This leads to increased synthesis of endothelin-1, which is a constrictor of penile smooth muscle and a profibrotic agent.27 This fibrosis leads to decreased EF.28, 29, 30 Low oxygen tension also decreases the level of prostaglandin-E1, which normally inhibits collagen formation by inhibiting transforming growth factor-β 1. Hence, hypoxia also causes fibrosis by loss of this ‘back-up mechanism’.31Oxygen tension therefore is likely the critical regulator of the delicate balance of smooth muscle and connective tissue by these molecular mechanisms. Under hypoxic conditions, cavernosal smooth muscle is replaced by collagen and the veno-occlusive mechanism required for EF may be significantly injured.

    Fraiman et al. were among the first to show changes in penile length and girth after nerve-sparing radical prostatectomy (NSRP). Using a cohort of 100 men undergoing NSRP and matched controls, it was shown that flaccid and erect measurements of length and circumference decreased 8 and 9%, respectively. In addition, a 19 and 22% change by volume in the flaccid and erect states, respectively, were documented between 4 and 8 months postoperatively.10

    However, the measurement, which most accurately represents erect length, is stretched flaccid penile length as it is not influenced by state of mind, subjectivity or room temperature.32 This factor was studied 3 months after RP, and it showed that 48% had shortening greater than 1.0 cm.33 It is likely that the injuries, which lead to ED postoperatively, are also responsible for this decrease in size.

    No single protocol is currently considered the ‘standard of care’.

    Mulhall et al., studied long-term follow-up (18 months) with intracavernous injection (ICI) as part of his rehabilitation protocol. The overall goal of therapy was to induce erection in men 4 weeks after RP three times weekly.

    After 18 months, the treatment group had 52% medication-unassisted erections as compared with 19% in the on-demand group. Treated men also had a much higher response to sildenafil after 18 months, as well as higher IIEF–EF domain scores.38 It is noted that the use of needles dissuades men from strict ICI rehabilitation protocols, as the attrition rate is quite high several months into treatment.39

    Witherington46 stated 92% of 1517 patients mailed a retrospective survey were satisfied, with 77% reportedly using it at least every 2 weeks.

    With MUSE, Corporal oximetry was then measured. It was found that even at these low doses, blood was arterialized in the penis both immediately after treatment, as well as the day after. As discussed earlier, this increased oxygen tension is the key to avoiding penile fibrosis,40 and MUSE is thus an under-utilized post-RP modality.

    Vacuum erection devices

    The first medically relevant VED was invented for personal use in the 1960's by Geddings D Osbon, Sr


    Manufacturers generally recommend that the ring not stay in place for more than 30 min to avoid hypoxic injury to the penis. The usual time required to achieve an adequate penile erection ranges from 30 s to 7 min.46, 49


    They also showed that the patients with the highest success with VED were classified as having ‘moderate’ ED or were able to achieve spontaneous firmness for insertion, but unable to maintain it until completion of intercourse.


    Preliminary data has shown the VED's ability to stretch smooth muscle fibers leads to improvement of overall EF and potentially the maintenance of penile length.57, 16, 17


    Raina et al., conducted a prospective study with 109 patients undergoing RP, randomized to either undergo daily VED use for 9 months starting 1 month after surgery or to receive no treatment.


    Of greater significance was that the treatment group was less likely to feel that their penis was shorter (85 vs 23%). Interestingly, these findings were independent of whether the surgery was nerve sparing or not.59


    “In Group 1, 80% (60/74) successfully used their VCD with a constriction ring for vaginal intercourse at a frequency of twice/week with an overall spousal satisfaction rate of 55% (33/60).”


    Dalkin and Christopher administered a prospective study with 42 men to assess the effect of VED on stretched penile length. The day after their catheter was removed, VED use was initiated daily for 90 consecutive days. Patients compliant with the protocol had a significantly decreased risk of having a loss of length greater than 1.0 cm (3%) compared with data from earlier studies in which 48% of men had a significant length reduction.60 This is likely due to the tumescence effect of VED


    Kohler et al. tested stretched flaccid penile length in a prospective randomized trial. They assigned 28 men after RRP to either undergo daily VED usage without a constriction band starting 1 month after surgery for 5 months or to begin 6 months after surgery. The early intervention group had significantly higher IIEF scores in addition to preserved penile length. In contrast, patients not using the VED had approximately 2.0 cm decreased penile length at both 3 and 6 months (in five out of eleven patients).
     
  3. sissy_connie
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    sissy_connie Long term member

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    Thank You for sharing the research article on this subject. I read it quickly....but it seemed to confirm my feeling that "shrinkge" does or can occur after long term use of a chastity cage....in one sense it is logical because if a "muscle" is not used...it tends to atrophy.
     
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  4. Peter Rabbit
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    #4 Peter Rabbit, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
    You’re welcome. But it’s only 8-9% and only if you are completely flaccid for over six months. There’s no research on male chastity. Just Erectile Dysfunction after prostate surgery. The info on Vacuum device research indicate men can be “satisfied” with maintaining their erectile function with just usage of a pump once every two weeks.

    Quoted from above: “Witherington46 stated 92% of 1517 patients mailed a retrospective survey were satisfied, with 77% reportedly using it at least every 2 weeks.”

    I was trying to find the longest period you can be completely flaccid before fibrosis sets in. And the frequency of replacing nocturnal emissions with scheduled forced erections (VED) to maintain erectile function.

    I don’t think one would ever shrink the amounts you read about in personal anecdotes. 8-9% is a small amount.

    Rounding somewhat:
    6.1” (155 mm) to 5.5” (140 mm) is -10%
    1-3/8” (35 mm) to 1-1/4” (32 mm) -10%
    1-1/4” (32 mm) to 1-3/16” (30 mm) -10%

    Maybe this matches with some men’s experience stepping down a size for their cage internal diameter. But as far as I can tell, I haven’t lost any length or girth.

    But I haven’t been locked for six months straight or longer.

    Late last year I was fantasizing about going to a urologist to get a penis ultrasound to check for fibrosis. Or get a baseline to establish I have none.

    But I’m settling down on my medical fantasies recently after a discussion with my keyholding wife. She said it’s good to have knowledge and resources identified but there’s no reason for concern, or to share details of my chastity wearing with the medical industry right now.

    I still would like to get people’s critical thinking and research skills in gear to read some of these articles and see how we might apply research into erectile dysfunction effects and erectile function maintenance / rehabilitation to male chastity.

    (Separate research and advice on prostate health tells me we worry about testicular pressure and forced prostate emptying too much.)

    If you want to shrink your penis, I think hormonal changes are a more effective way. I personally don’t believe chastity is a primary driver (beyond at most 10% size from the very strict and consistent erection denial.
     
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  5. MissyB
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    Thanks for bringing this information to CM. This is a constant question here, so it's helpful to have some more data.
     
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  6. Billus
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    And if the penis was composed of muscle tissue, that might matter. But it's not. It's more like a sponge. Chastity will not cause your penis to shrink. Many men are locked long-term and recover within days once they're unlocked. Age and medication will cause more shrinkage than chastity ever could.
     
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  7. Peter Rabbit
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    Let’s read the physiology and not over simplify. The penis is more than just a sponge. There are smooth muscles that are part of managing the artery blood flow. Fibrosis can prevent erectile function. The article above references this but does not explain physiology of erections. Here’s a paper that does.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351051/

    Physiology of Penile Erection and Pathophysiology of Erectile Dysfunction
    Robert C. Dean, MD and Tom F. Lue, MD

    Corpora Cavernosa
    The penile erectile tissue, specifically the cavernous smooth musculature and the smooth muscles of the arteriolar and arterial walls, plays a key role in the erectile process. In the flaccid state, these smooth muscles are tonically contracted, allowing only a small amount of arterial flow for nutritional purposes. The blood partial pressure of oxygen (PO2) is about 35mmHg range. 1 The flaccid penis is in a moderate state of contraction, as evidenced by further shrinkage in cold weather and after phenylephrine injection.

    Sexual stimulation triggers release of neurotransmitters from the cavernous nerve terminals. This results in relaxation of these smooth muscles and the following events:
    1. Dilatation of the arterioles and arteries by increased blood flow in both the diastolic and the systolic phases

    2. Trapping of the incoming blood by the expanding sinusoids

    3. Compression of the subtunical venular plexuses between the tunica albuginea and the peripheral sinusoids, reducing the venous outflow

    4. Stretching of the tunica to its capacity, which occludes the emissary veins between the inner circular and the outer longitudinal layers and further decreases the venous outflow to a minimum

    5. An increase in PO2 (to about 90 mmHg) and intracavernous pressure (around 100 mm Hg), which raises the penis from the dependent position to the erect state (the full-erection phase)

    6. A further pressure increase (to several hundred millimeters of mercury) with contraction of the ischiocavernosus muscles (rigid-erection phase)

    ...
    Erection thus involves sinusoidal relaxation, arterial dilatation, and venous compression.3The importance of smooth muscle relaxation has been demonstrated in animal and human studies.4, 5

    ...
    In the rigid-erection phase, the ischiocavernosus and bulbocavernosus muscles forcefully compress the spongiosum and penile veins, which results in further engorgement and increased pressure in the glans and spongiosum.
    ...
    Smooth Muscle
    Because corporeal smooth muscle controls the vascular event leading to erection, change of smooth muscle content and ultrastructure can be expected to affect erectile response. In a study of human penile tissue, Sattar and associates demonstrated a significant difference between the mean percentage of cavernous smooth muscle in normal potent men.

    ————————-
    I will follow up with a summary about fibrosis and cavernosal smooth muscle damage from the previous article.
     
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  8. Peter Rabbit
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    Peter Rabbit I'm her bunny

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    To try and make this simple, here’s a selected summary:

    “the cavernous smooth musculature and the smooth muscles of the ... arterial walls ... play a key role in the erectile process”

    “cavernosal nerve disruption can lead to permanent smooth muscle damage and decreased long-term erectile function [EF]”

    “Erections ... facilitates tissue oxygenation, reducing cavernosal fibrosis in the absence of nocturnal erections, potentially increasing the likelihood of preserving EF.”

    “Much like other muscle groups, when its innervation is removed, cavernosal smooth muscle fibers degenerate sometime in the first 3–6 months

    “In view of the irreversible nature of fibrosis, ... intervention to rescue denervated ... muscle fibers should be delayed no longer than 7 months to improve the chances for full recovery.”

    Normally Men get “3–5 nocturnal erections per night, a source of high arterial oxygen tension for 1 to 3.5 h per night.”

    “It is possible that corporal smooth muscle apoptosis and increased collagen deposition ... may ... be present in human patients”

    “it was shown that flaccid and erect measurements of length and circumference decreased 8 and 9%, respectively...
    between 4 and 8 months”

    “...stretched flaccid penile length... measurements ... showed that 48% had shortening greater than 1.0 cm.33

    “Preliminary data has shown the VED's ability to stretch smooth muscle fibers leads to improvement of overall EF and potentially the maintenance of penile length.57, 16, 17


    From another source

    “It means that less oxygen is reaching the blood vessels in the chambers of the penis. Less blood means less oxygen. And less oxygen reaching these tissues creates fibrosis.”


    And if you’re looking to shrink your penis:

    “Numerous recent studies showed that androgen deprivation produces penile tissue atrophy...

    In plain English, that means that having low testosterone over time causes the penile tissue to get smaller.”
     
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  9. Peter Rabbit
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    My question is how strict does a chastity device need to be to match the fibrosis and atrophy effects of having zero innervation and lack of oxygen seen in radical prostatectomy patients?

    Is that even possible?

    Are our morning wood pressures against the walls of our cages enough? Are our brief unlockings to wash enough to stretch out? Do we need to be locked in an extremely tight cage for six months before fibrosis and atrophy set in? Do we need to be unlocked for how often to stretch out, ... lest our cages become too comfortable and less tight? ;)

    Anyway the largest shrinkage reported above is 2cm. Less than an inch.

    Do we need to be hooked up to a penis pump every so often just to make our chastity stay tight? ;) Or would a 10% reduction in size just make us finally feel comfortable in our cages?

    Ok. Back to being serious.

    Do the effects of a total lack of nerve activity over months translate to very strict long term chastity? are any of these papers relevant?
     
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  10. Beck
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    Holy muffin shit peter rabbit!!!

    You've been researching extensively! Thank you!
    Not to be a dick... but the effects of long term chastity CAN CAUSE INJURY! Oh glory be! My liddle pecker is a useless thing anyway!!!!!!!!!! Serve the master ohh ohhhh ohhhhh


    Please


    The truth oh brothers and sisters is chastity is a sadistic game. And there are cosequences! Choose to play, you might have to pay... hahahaha

    Unless of course if you make a profile here and worship Lucy!! Then those consequnces turn into angels everytime another lock clicks shut. . .
     
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  11. Beck
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    To answer the op: after playing with chastity for years, even getting a pa, i can tell you you CAN RECOVER!!! BUT... it is not a sure thing at all. And you will likely never be the same. Chastity along with all kinds of piercing, take ear spacers ie, will take a toll. Putting you dick into cicumstance where its natural cycle is 'controlled' will have a lasting effect. But isn't that what you want? As far as size reduction goes, I think you'd actually need to be under the lock for years for that to happen.......... BUT IF YOU'RE A SENSITIVE LIDDLE PECKER HAHAHAHA!!! You might suffer sooner.... do you dare find out?
     
  12. JKisChaste
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    The truth is, there have never been an scientific studies done on the effects of wearing chastity cages. Everything you read or hear about whether penises shrink when caged for weeks or months is all anecdotal rather than scientific. So, no one really knows the answer. One thing we do know, regardless of the composition of the penis, every single part of the human body is subject to atrophy when not allowed to function normally over extended periods. I suspect this is as true of the penis as any other body part. We also know that ordinarily healthy men have 3-5 nocturnal erections each night during REM sleep. This is believed to occur for the purpose of promoting healthy functioning. Cages restrict, cut short, or even prevent these nocturnal erections. It seems reasonable to assume this does not promote normal functioning. I read extensively the writing of a woman who has literally caged hundreds of men. She claims, based on her observations, that long-term wear of chastity cages with very little time spent uncaged does over months and years reduce penis length by anywhere to an inch to an inch and a half. It varies because everyone is different. But, it does occur she claims, and the shrinkage is permanent. The safe assumption is that wearing a cage for extended periods of time with little time not wearing it may cause permanent shrinkage and perhaps even ED. If those are things you wish to avoid, you probably don’t want to spend a lot of time caged.
     
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  13. Darkist
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    Ok Ok... If you don’t shrink in chastity then why are they all so small! Answer me this?
     
  14. Billus
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    Yes, as you mentioned, there is smooth muscle involved, but that's the case with the entire vascular system. Also, the ischiocavernosus and bulbocavernosus muscles are not found in the penis (at least not as it extends from the body).

    And also as you pointed out, dysfunction after prostate surgery is usually caused by nerve damage, not chastity. While there appear to be no studies of the effect of chastity on erections, the amount of anecdotal evidence would lend credence to the notion that the effect is temporary at best.
     
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  15. Tom Allen
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    In addition to @Peter Rabbit 's well researched posts, consider that the muscle tissue in the penis is miniscule in volume; it's only there to help with the blood flow. There's no "muscle" in the sense of flexing your biceps or doing pull-ups or press ups.

    Again, most of what we hear in these groups are anecdotes. Your penis size is more likely to be affected by age or medications.

    And speaking of anecdotes, I've spent 20 years in and out of devices, usually wearing for months at a time. I haven't seen any changes in size or performance.
     
  16. Peter Rabbit
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    Good point. Thanks for the response. My morning wood still pushes my cage out. I get many attempted erections. The vascular system still works for most men in safely fitted chastity.

    I’d want to go back and carefully look at diagrams of the male genital system, and figure out where this fibrosis occurs. Then I could help confirm your statement.

    There still is atrophy from lower oxygenation but I also have doubts.

    I am not trying to prove chastity shrinks your penis. I’m trying to get some real understanding of physiology to show it won’t. Or at least not unless XYZ...

    I appreciate help on this.
    This was not my thread but I’ve been reading for the last 6 months on this topic.

    No medical journals mention penis shrinkage more than 10% or 0.78 inches (2cm). Anecdotal stories talk about far more shrinkage.
     
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  17. Peter Rabbit
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    I don’t have nearly as much time in chastity as Tom. But I can attest to the same. I’ve played with chastity for over two decades. It only became real in 2014. I’m still my glorious self outside of chastity. I finally did a proper bone pressed length during a day of freedom (from chastity, not denial).

    And just to tease Tom, it doesn’t matter if your natural equipment has shrunk a little... not when your wife prefers your strapon anyway. ;) If you’re never inside her, what does it matter?

    For me, my PIV has plummeted over the years. My sensitivity has skyrocketed and my stamina destroyed. I can’t last. And that’s very real.

    Size doesn’t matter as much as stamina.
     
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  18. Rectrix
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    Would you please share the link / source for this woman's research?
     
  19. Peter Rabbit
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    I think it’s AskAgni on Tumblr / @agniadvice on Twitter. I just stumbled across her post on the same topic. I don’t believe shrinkage of the erect penis more than 10% can be expected based on my readings of medical journal articles and papers.

    I do believe that one’s flaccid penis gets more comfortable in a cage over time. But there’s no research to corroborate my personal anecdotes and what I read. I think it’s a matter of separating our constant low level arousal from being slightly turgid and a little engorged while measuring and first putting on chastity cages. Also the variation in flaccid girth and length can easily be 10%. One’s pubic mound can reduce apparent length appreciatively. One’s bone-pressed length doesn’t translate to the fit of your cage when you’ve got a pad of fat pressing the base ring outwards from your pubic bone.
     
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  20. Tom Allen
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    Mrs Edge says this all the time now. ;)


    I would question if the results were self-reported by the men; those who have a shrinkage or "useless" fetish may have been biased in their self measurements.
     
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  21. Shepherdsflock
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    The only thing that has effectively shrunk my genitals and rendered me mostly impotent is a combination of spironolactone and estradiol. It does wonders if you want to shrink the penis and testicles and reduce erections. Even months at a time in a chastity device didn’t really do much. It might look smaller after taking the device off, but would return to normal within a day or less.
     
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  22. madams-sissysub
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    After months in chastity, with only a weekly release for cleaning ect, my madam did say that I had shrunk, she pointed out she only needed to use two fingers to edge me.
     
  23. Beck
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    Beck Banned

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    Common sense is the answer. Take what we know about physiology, plus time, plus piercing, multiplied by personality, and you will never get the same answer twice. But, there are patterns, and circumstance with certain kinds of chastity and use there of that can lead to predictable outcomes. But truly it is all about sacrifice, and at least for me, the side effects where always part of the cost of entry... but in looking back on it now, it was all much more of an emotional process than anything else. I am not submitting to being locked at the moment, for it is best for me. I realize now that bruising and whatever small inconveniences the cage can cause are temporary, but the mind does not forget, and the time spent healing was for me the last time around a bit much. Piercings don't go away. Couple that with emotional reactions, and conspiracy theories can start a brewing... lol.

    It truly would be great if some Alfred Kinsey type could privately document all of this and get some real scientific consensus, but until then I will take @Peter Rabbit's word for it!
     
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  24. Peter Rabbit
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    Peter Rabbit I'm her bunny

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    Thank you for the kind words but I’m still not sure what my research has found.

    Does male chastity even apply to the “significant” 8-9% decrease in penile size found in those men with erectile dysfunction after certain Prostatectomy surgeries? Are the causes denervation smooth muscle atrophy, apoptosis, or even hypoxia-induced damage to the corpora? And do those relate to male chastity?

    Maybe not the smooth muscle atrophy. What about hypoxia from not being engorged? What is the oxygenation of a penis attempting a full erection in constraints? Less than unconstrained but more than flaccid, probably.

    How often does a male need a full unconstrained erection to maintain size and function, if that’s needed at all?

    What about Peyronie’s Disease. Is that relevant to the force of erections against a cage?

    Does a flaccid penis itself shrink within constraints of chastity? (This would be difficult to find research on)

    My papers might not be relevant at all.

    I was thinking of looking up physiology of long-term wear prosthetics.

    I’d appreciate more folks with a mind for physiology to help discuss this.
     
  25. Dr MBogo
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    Dr MBogo You heard the lady! In you go.....

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    Whether its true or not that being in chastity can cause shrinkage of the penis, it may not matter, based on your situation. Example: At age 58, when I was locked in chastity full-time, I barely got hard before cumming, and therefore seemed smaller to my wife (now wife/KH). I've been locked more or less 24/7 for 3 years now, and haven't had a full erection or orgasm in 5 months. When my cage comes off now for cleaning/inspection, it seems tiny. More importantly, we both know its not ever going in a vagina again, so it doesn't matter.
     
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